2015 Mercedes ML250 BlueTEC Diesel..... Blown Turbos

[BMWTurboDzl]

Let's hear it.

The claim that M1 ESP is a gasoline oil.
- It's a dual rated C3 oil centered around European ULSD/ULSG approvals.

The claim that API gave M1 an SN approval for ESP
- API is self-certify.

The claim that 229.5 is for gas engines (i.e. not diesel)..
- It's for gas and diesel with no DPF

The claim ACEA C5 is for passenger car diesel engines rather than C3/C2 which is not approved for turbocharged diesel engines.
- C5 is for 20 grade oils. Cx are all dual rated with/without turbo.



The information is horse manure.

 

[CleverUserName]

Without any historical oil analysis on the vehicle it’s difficult to determine the condition of the lubricant at the end of 10k.

I used to use C3 and 507 in my vehicles, however after numerous UOAs showing the oil was marginal at best and depleted at worst, no more.

Now CJ-4 or CK-4 in 5w40, 15w40 or 10w30. UOAs now are much better.

OP you do you. Lots of good 5w40 and 15w40 oils available. Check out Ravenol NDT 5w40, P66 Triton ECT and HPL. Brotella is cheap for a reason.

 

[edyvw]

Without any historical oil analysis on the vehicle it’s difficult to determine the condition of the lubricant at the end of 10k.

I used to use C3 and 507 in my vehicles, however after numerous UOAs showing the oil was marginal at best and depleted at worst, no more.

Now CJ-4 or CK-4 in 5w40, 15w40 or 10w30. UOAs now are much better.

OP you do you. Lots of good 5w40 and 15w40 oils available. Check out Ravenol NDT 5w40, P66 Triton ECT and HPL. Brotella is cheap for a reason.

What does marginal and depleted mean? What will $30 UOA tell you about deposits etc?

 

[CleverUserName]

What does marginal and depleted mean? What will $30 UOA tell you about deposits etc?

Marginal means low TBN, less than 1.0. High wear metal concentrations. Viscosity degradation.

Don’t really care about the things that “may” be occurring using HD oil if the $30 UOA shows poor results using recommended lube. A logical conclusion would be to try another oil that can handle the contaminants better for the full 10k miles.

What about those VW PD engines with wiped camshafts from owners following the OEM guidelines and using VW 505 ? Meanwhile owners who were using HD 5w40 and 15w40 in their PDs still have the original valvetrain intact.

 

[edyvw]

Marginal means low TBN, less than 1.0. High wear metal concentrations. Viscosity degradation.

Don’t really care about the things that “may” be occurring using HD oil if the $30 UOA shows poor results using recommended lube. A logical conclusion would be to try another oil that can handle the contaminants better for the full 10k miles.

What about those VW PD engines with wiped camshafts from owners following the OEM guidelines and using VW 505 ? Meanwhile owners who were using HD 5w40 and 15w40 in their PDs still have the original valvetrain intact.

In what car did you experience TBN less than 1.0? The only time TBN was an issue in VW504.00 oils was when sulfur was high in gas. But than, at that time, those oils were not recommended for it. I use VW504.00 for A LONG time, and don;t have any of those issues.
PD engines had mechanical issue that thicker oil could slow down (not prevent). VW505.01 was fine if it was 5W40 not W30. I had numerous 1.9 TDI vehicles with PD injection system, and all were running on VW 505.01 5W40 and later on VW 504.00/507.00 5W30.
But, where are those UOA?

 

[CleverUserName]

Your experience is anecdotal regarding PD engines. The consensus on TDIclub.com is to not use 505 on PDs. My mother’s car is a minty 2006 TDI that was only dealer serviced with 505 oil and needed the valvetrain replaced. We used a steel billet cam as a replacement and only run HD 15w40 or 10w40 in it now.

I could bring up the Ram ecodiesel switch from C3 to CJ-4 as well, however you’ll dismiss that I’m sure.

My 2009 Jetta TDI using Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200, TBN less than 1.0 at 10,000 miles. It was 2.0 at ~ 7500 miles.

UOAs are posted on here. You will have to search to find as it was many years ago.

 

[edyvw]

Your experience is anecdotal regarding PD engines. The consensus on TDIclub.com is to not use 505 on PDs. My mother’s car is a minty 2006 TDI that was only dealer serviced with 505 oil and needed the valvetrain replaced. We used a steel billet cam as a replacement and only run HD 15w40 or 10w40 in it now.

I could bring up the Ram ecodiesel switch from C3 to CJ-4 as well, however you’ll dismiss that I’m sure.

My 2009 Jetta TDI using Liqui Moly Top Tec 4200, TBN less than 1.0 at 10,000 miles. It was 2.0 at ~ 7500 miles.

UOAs are posted on here. You will have to search to find as it was many years ago.

Anecdotal? I had 3 personal vehicles with 1.9tdi (Skoda Octavia, 2007, 2009 and 2011) and more than 30 delivery vehicles with that engine.

RAM eco diesel is different story. As I said, no oil will hide mechanical issues. We used lower OCI on PD, 10,000km or 7,500mls.
But always VW505.01, mostly Repsol 5W40 and later 5W30 in all delivery vehicles.
As for TBN, depilation of TBN is caused by bad fuel, high sulphur. VW505.01 had higher TBN value than later VW504.00.

 

[CleverUserName]

Anecdotal? I had 3 personal vehicles with 1.9tdi (Skoda Octavia, 2007, 2009 and 2011) and more than 30 delivery vehicles with that engine.

RAM eco diesel is different story. As I said, no oil will hide mechanical issues. We used lower OCI on PD, 10,000km or 7,500mls.
But always VW505.01, mostly Repsol 5W40 and later 5W30 in all delivery vehicles.
As for TBN, depilation of TBN is caused by bad fuel, high sulphur. VW505.01 had higher TBN value than later VW504.00

I live in California and we have the highest cetane, lowest sulfur and lowest aromatic hydrocarbon diesel fuel in the nation. Worth noting that this was the pre dieselgate tune on my 2009 with less EGR and the 507 oil still didn’t hold up. Why would anyone keep using it? Because VW told me to.

My experience is just as anecdotal as yours however I’m here sharing my opinion about it as you are. I have 3 diesels, each requiring Dexos 2 or 507 and they all get HD oils now. No problems and good $30 UOAs.

 

[edyvw]

I live in California and we have the highest cetane, lowest sulfur and lowest aromatic hydrocarbon diesel fuel in the nation. Worth noting that this was the pre dieselgate tune on my 2009 with less EGR and the 507 oil still didn’t hold up. Why would anyone keep using it? Because VW told me to.

My experience is just as anecdotal as yours however I’m here sharing my opinion about it as you are. I have 3 diesels, each requiring Dexos 2 or 507 and they all get HD oils now. No problems and good $30 UOAs.

Again, I racked up on these cars more than 300,000mls as they were used in delivery business. I am talking to you from my experience.
As for OP, In these engines and oil with MB229.51/52 is better choice than HD. No HD specification is as stringent as that approval in any category. He doesn’t have oil issue, IF he used what Mercedes recommends.

 

[edyvw]

To add one thing about HD oils.
That same “movement “ of using oils like T6 started when WRX and VW TSFI folks started to use them. The lack of options in 5W40 grade at that time that were VW505.01 or VW502.00, high cost of those that were available and hype about “heavy duty” led folks to those oils.
Today market is saturated with C3 oils in XW40 grade that have far better HTHS than HD oils, like Motul X-Clean 5W40 or M1 ESP 0W40 X3.

 

[CleverUserName]

Again, I racked up on these cars more than 300,000mls as they were used in delivery business. I am talking to you from my experience.
As for OP, In these engines and oil with MB229.51/52 is better choice than HD. No HD specification is as stringent as that approval in any category. He doesn’t have oil issue, IF he used what Mercedes recommends.

Maybe he did have oil issue, just like I did. It’s silly to assume the oil held up through the whole OCI. Nobody knows because no UOAs were done.

You also forgot to include how Delvac 1 motor and gear oil is so popular with Porsche owners and shops who maintain race cars.

 

[edyvw]

Maybe he did have oil issue, just like I did. It’s silly to assume the oil held up through the whole OCI. Nobody knows because no UOAs were done.

You also forgot to include how Delvac 1 motor and gear oil is so popular with Porsche owners and shops who maintain race cars.

Only oil issue he could have is pressure issue, broken oil feed line etc. if he used MB229.51/52. Or if he used ILSAC-GF-6 5W30 oils.
Motor? No. Gear oil is not "popular." Delvac is actually factory-fill.
ENgin fill is M1 0W40 and Porsche has specific track requirement testing.
Only an idiot would go Delvac motor oil over Porsche A40 approval.
And I spend a lot of time on track among those folks.

 

[Averroes]

Your first mistake was buying a diesel, but that’s just my personal opinion.

Second mistake, not gauging driving habits. Extreme driving conditions? Well, smaller OCIs. I’d stick to 5,000 miles from now on before an oil and filter swap. Then I would only use oil on the Mercedes approved list.

Hope things turn out for the best.

Also, please let us know what oil you were using. Thanks.

 

[CleverUserName]

Only oil issue he could have is pressure issue, broken oil feed line etc. if he used MB229.51/52. Or if he used ILSAC-GF-6 5W30 oils.
Motor? No. Gear oil is not "popular." Delvac is actually factory-fill.
ENgin fill is M1 0W40 and Porsche has specific track requirement testing.
Only an idiot would go Delvac motor oil over Porsche A40 approval.
And I spend a lot of time on track among those folks.

FYI, I used D1 back in the day in my ‘86 911. It is popular in the Porsche community and has been for years. I guess we’re all idiots.

Enter this into a google search: delvac 5w40 and porsche site:rennlist.com

 

[TomYoung]

Your first mistake was buying a diesel, but that’s just my personal opinion.

Second mistake, not gauging driving habits. Extreme driving conditions? Well, smaller OCIs. I’d stick to 5,000 miles from now on before an oil and filter swap. Then I would only use oil on the Mercedes approved list.

Hope things turn out for the best.

Also, please let us know what oil you were using. Thanks.

A shorter oci is a bare minimum here. I am at a loss on what happened here. That engine should still be running fine at 128k. The viscosity of the oil is simply not a causal factor, but contaminated or very low quality oil, maybe. I would be concerned about the rest of the engine and would probably do a flush and a few rapid oil changes. Worth looking at driving habits, too. Sorry this happened and best wishes for the next 100k

 

[svenson]

i had a conversation with a bmw mechanic who tracks a lot ,about oils..i was surprised of what he told me about a 4 series model. turbos were failing and he couldn't find the reason.thought it was a mechanical issue.or an engine design.he still cant figure out..he lost a lot of clients.he decided to experiment with the oil viscosity. the car spec oil is 5-30 or 40 doesn't really matter anyway its almost same hths.
but the car couldn't hold pressure of oil and that destroyed turbos.so he tried a thicker oil 5-50 from eneos ..out of the viscosity range..and he saved his clients..oil pressure worked perfectly.
i dont know the explanation but that worked for oil pressure..and it wasn't just one car from this line of bmw.he lost many clients..so my guess is that sometimes, testing engineers make mistakes or dont test good /long enough some parameters..could be your case.

 

[edyvw]

FYI, I used D1 back in the day in my ‘86 911. It is popular in the Porsche community and has been for years. I guess we’re all idiots.

Enter this into a google search: delvac 5w40 and porsche site:rennlist.com

And you are trying to achieve what compared to 0W40 A40? Or 5W40 A40? In 1986 engines I would say variety ofnoils one can use is far beyond A40 or Delvac. We are talking here modern engines.
People do all kind of stuff to vehicles and have all kind of assumptions, like that in Germany this Mercedes is recommended to use 15W40.

 

[edyvw]

i had a conversation with a bmw mechanic who tracks a lot ,about oils..i was surprised of what he told me about a 4 series model. turbos were failing and he couldn't find the reason.thought it was a mechanical issue.or an engine design.he still cant figure out..he lost a lot of clients.he decided to experiment with the oil viscosity. the car spec oil is 5-30 or 40 doesn't really matter anyway its almost same hths.
but the car couldn't hold pressure of oil and that destroyed turbos.so he tried a thicker oil 5-50 from eneos ..out of the viscosity range..and he saved his clients..oil pressure worked perfectly.
i dont know the explanation but that worked for oil pressure..and it wasn't just one car from this line of bmw.he lost many clients..so my guess is that sometimes, testing engineers make mistakes or dont test good /long enough some parameters..could be your case.

4 series? Which engines? The only oil pressure issues known were on modified cars doing higher G load on track than designed for. And there was no real solution.

 

[svenson]

4 series? Which engines? The only oil pressure issues known were on modified cars doing higher G load on track than designed for. And there was no real solution.

i will ask them ,i dont know which ones..

 

[Dr_Dr3i]

Seems the OP basically tossed a turd and ran out, never to be seen or heard from again... Fun.

The OM651 engine used in the later Sprinters, as well as all E250, ML250, GLE300d, and GLK250 which I currently own have always required 229.51 or 229.52 spec oils. Most of the oils approved under that spec came in 5w30 flavor, a few in 0w30 and fewer in 5w40.

Using the correct spec oils IS NOT what caused the demise of OP's turbos. Without more technical info from the shop that did the repair, it's difficult to see how both turbos would fail at the same time, since one is for low-end boost and a smaller one is for top-end boost. It's far more likely that wastegate actuator failed or that the boost hose failed, which is actually quite common.

In any case, I'll just add that I've been using the correct spec oils in ours since purchasing 7 years ago and with more than 135K miles on it currently, it still runs perfectly while returning more than 36mpg on my 200 mile commute. I've used oils from LM, Mobil1, Chevron (Havoline ProDS), and a few others I can't remember but they were all 229.51 or .52 spec and have yet to experience any oil issue.

It's entirely possible the OP used cheap gasser 5w30 off-the-shelf oil and ran that for far too long, but since he's not been back he hasn't told us. Even if he used the correct spec stuff, the only time I would go a full 10K mile OCI is if I racked up the miles on a daily basis in mostly steady speed freeway running; the stop-n-go typical crawling in rush hour type of commute equals "severe service" in my book, which means the OCI gets cut to 5-6K miles at most.

An oil change is far cheaper than $8K turbo replacement