New Truck - Go with Diesel or....Gas model? Ford 3.5 Turbo took a dump.

[Brons2]

Update - Last one...

Well, this is the final update. Yesterday, my buddy was offered a smokin' deal in the 2500 series 6.7L Diesel Super Duty. The numbers clicked and he's now an owner.

The dealership offered him way more money for his truck and came down on the 2500. Knowing and learning from this whole saga has taught him to be much more observational and not to go strictly with a "schedule". As for what happened with the warranty...

The service writer informed him that his turbocharger(s) were on their way out. (Covered). He also didn't mention anything about the other issues at-hand and the didn't have half of the independent shops issues problems listed. My buddy didn't want to open a can-of-worms because of the deal they were giving him.

Soooo... he decided to start fresh and move forward. Perhaps they know or knew all along. Tough to say. I'm just glad it's over. We all can speculate here on this and that... Bottom line is there are multiple factors involved here and at this point, the only take-away is to be on top of maintenance etc.

Thanks to all that contributed with the pros & cons etc. Ultimately, it's his 'dime" and choice. I (My opinion) still am going to shy away from any newer "turbo" technology for the sole reason of avoiding complexity. (when possible.) I realize many of you love your forced-fed engines and don't understand why there are so many that don't. In the end, it's about what works for "you".

Thanks guys.

Well, clear evidence here that dealers are no longer in the situation that they were in 2021 when they had us over a barrel, and they're willing to deal. Useful for the community.

Anything else I could have said, has already been said, so I'll leave it at that.

Well ok one other thing, there's no way a couple of years ago this would have made sense due to the cost of diesel. But, in my area diesel is almost at parity with regular unleaded today, hope it stays that way for your friend's sake.

 

[wtd]

Yes, I was referring to Motorcraft. A large percentage of car owners still believe they should be following every recommendation in their owner's manual. So a recommemded oil brand / type could steer millions of owners to that oil. It's quite possible that the Motorcraft Synthetic Blend is about the same as SuperTech All Mikeage Synthetic blend which sells for about $16 for a 5 quart jug. Ford is selling theirs on Amazon for a huge markup at $10 a quart, and those owners who follow their owner's manual are actually buying it at that price. The part of this that is troubling is both the profit being made off of the loyal owners, and also the timing chain wear that happens with this oil during the recommended 10k oil change interval.

You can buy Motorcraft blend at Walmart for about $24 for a 5 qrt jug. Anyone buying it for $10 a quart on Amazon is stupid. Walmart sells it by the quart for about $4.25 a quart.

 

[wtd]

I think all current Diesel trucks are turbocharged. Turbo isn't a bad thing just run high quality synthetic. Ford still offers v-8s in the 150/250s non-turbo. From my current understanding the newer Powerstroke Ford diesels have a terrible fuel pump design. It's not if but when it fails the pump breaks apart sende bits and pieces down tve fuel lines destroying the low and high pressure fuel injectors resulting in a 10k repair.

This recently happened to a friend of mine with a 2013 F250 with the 6.7L. They quoted him about a $10K repair and said that some parts were on national backorder and could not give him a timeline of when it would be fixed. They ended up trading it in on a 2019 Ram 3500 with the 6.4L gas engine.

 

[JGmazda]

Well, clear evidence here that dealers are no longer in the situation that they were in 2021 when they had us over a barrel, and they're willing to deal. Useful for the community.

Anything else I could have said, has already been said, so I'll leave it at that.

Well ok one other thing, there's no way a couple of years ago this would have made sense due to the cost of diesel. But, in my area diesel is almost at parity with regular unleaded today, hope it stays that way for your friend's sake.

Thanks. Yeah, there are a lot of factors to consider. Yes, the dealer is a bit outside the city and not a mega-dealer. They met his numbers and then some. Win for both parties.

He made a good choice in that he's covered on towing and it being a heavy duty vehicle. The dealer had this truck on their lot for longer than they wanted to, and made him a deal. I know he could have went down a rabbit hole by going after the service department's "findings" and then waiting for his truck to be repaired. He just couldn't wait that long. (Especially with the business etc.)

Yes... a LOT of Monday morning quarterbacks here...

 

[JGmazda]

This recently happened to a friend of mine with a 2013 F250 with the 6.7L. They quoted him about a $10K repair and said that some parts were on national backorder and could not give him a timeline of when it would be fixed. They ended up trading it in on a 2019 Ram 3500 with the 6.4L gas engine.

As they say.... "_____ Happens". There were a lot of factors here. Not just what technology to choose. Some times you just need to have options and this is what happened.

 

[JGmazda]

Yes, I was referring to Motorcraft. A large percentage of car owners still believe they should be following every recommendation in their owner's manual. So a recommemded oil brand / type could steer millions of owners to that oil. It's quite possible that the Motorcraft Synthetic Blend is about the same as SuperTech All Mikeage Synthetic blend which sells for about $16 for a 5 quart jug. Ford is selling theirs on Amazon for a huge markup at $10 a quart, and those owners who follow their owner's manual are actually buying it at that price. The part of this that is troubling is both the profit being made off of the loyal owners, and also the timing chain wear that happens with this oil during the recommended 10k oil change interval.

Based on what I've read and understand... I personally would not go over 5k interval if I owned a turbocharged vehicle. Probably even less. I'd be using a 100% synthetic also. Interesting to know about Ford's recommendations. Not sure I'd agree with the owners manual on this.

 

[JGmazda]

Hmmm... thought this was interesting -

Three year old video.... but still.

 

[Bill7]

Hmmm... thought this was interesting -

Three year old video.... but still.

I saw that video. Most of them said the old school Coyote V-8. The ecoboost is a brilliant design, but it lacks the QA testing that a Japanese manufacturer would have done, and the ecoboost's rough edges can really bite you financially with enormous unexpected repair bills from what I've read.

 

[Bill7]

"Tows less than 9000lbs."

How often does he tow?
2021 and older Toyota Tundra with MPFI 5.7L V8. Towing capacity iirc about 10200lbs. Newer models are twin turbo V6.
Same reason I bought my Tundra. Didn't want a Eco, DI and/or Turbo.

If I was towing 9000lbs regularly or daily, I would buy a diesel. Otherwise Tundra will do the job if you don't run into payload issues.

I think the lure of the Ford F-150's is the ultra luxury interior and ultra smooth riding quiet ride, all while having the incredible power from the turbo boost giving you the feeling that you can beat a Lamborghini in a drag race.

It feels so good, and then the ecoboost seems like the best engine ever made.
A 3.5L that can tow more than 11,000 pounds and outperform V-8's.

The only problem with all that is the low mileage astronomical repair bills that come suddenly and unexpectedly
due to a good design that was never perfected. Timing chain wear, cam phaser issues, many other astronomical costing issues.

If I were in the market for a pickup truck, I would only buy a Toyota, and search through Consumer Reports for the most reliable year.

 

[JGmazda]

I saw that video. Most of them said the old school Coyote V-8. The ecoboost is a brilliant design, but it lacks the QA testing that a Japanese manufacturer would have done, and the ecoboost's rough edges can really bite you financially with enormous unexpected repair bills from what I've read.

Bingo! Not beating on Ford... but a Japanese manufacturer would have put way more R&D into it.

 

[JGmazda]

I think the lure of the Ford F-150's is the ultra luxury interior and ultra smooth riding quiet ride, all while having the incredible power from the turbo boost giving you the feeling that you can beat a Lamborghini in a drag race.

It feels so good, and then the ecoboost seems like the best engine ever made.
A 3.5L that can tow more than 11,000 pounds and outperform V-8's.

The only problem with all that is the low mileage astronomical repair bills that come suddenly and unexpectedly
due to a good design that was never perfected. Timing chain wear, cam phaser issues, many other astronomical costing issues.

If I were in the market for a pickup truck, I would only buy a Toyota, and search through Consumer Reports for the most reliable year.

I'm with you there. Unfortunately, the V8 (naturally aspirated) appears to be a dying breed. Many are going the turbo route. Some do it better that others.

 

[OilUzer]

I'm with you there. Unfortunately, the V8 (naturally aspirated) appears to be a dying breed. Many are going the turbo route. Some do it better that others.

In a decade or so, people will say these e-trucks are ok but I miss the twin turbo and eco-boost trucks ... Honey turn up the volume and tune to V8-Engine-Sound station and you won't miss a thing. You now have more torque and towing capacity, faster acceleration and no fuel dilution!

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Well, clear evidence here that dealers are no longer in the situation that they were in 2021 when they had us over a barrel, and they're willing to deal.

Just because the OP says “the numbers clicked” for his buddy does not mean the dealer didn’t still have his buddy over a barrel.

Plenty of people have more money than brains, just look at all the $75,000 half-ton pickups these days. There’s still many parts of the country where $75k will nearly buy a single family home!

 

[meep]

Bingo! Not beating on Ford... but a Japanese manufacturer would have put way more R&D into it.

I believe this tech has some Mazda in it as well. it’s pretty impressive - grab some of the white papers on its design and you may be surprised. The 2.7 is easily one of the favorite engines I’ve owned.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I believe this tech has some Mazda in it as well. it’s pretty impressive - grab some of the white papers on its design and you may be surprised. The 2.7 is easily one of the favorite engines I’ve owned.

The 2.7 even stock is quite impressive, and can easily top 400rwhp without changing anything. It can even go to a “full” E85 tune with all stock parts (the 3.5 requires in-tank and/or HP fuel pump upgrades to do this). 5 Star Tuning can top 440 at the wheels with an otherwise stock truck on ethanol.

Start swapping turbos and other parts, and 500+whp is not difficult. You’re talking 200+ HP/L which is nearly unheard of from American engine. It’s a mini EcoBeast!

 

[hemioiler]

The 2.7 even stock is quite impressive, and can easily top 400rwhp without changing anything. It can even go to a “full” E85 tune with all stock parts (the 3.5 requires in-tank and/or HP fuel pump upgrades to do this). 5 Star Tuning can top 440 at the wheels with an otherwise stock truck on ethanol.

Start swapping turbos and other parts, and 500+whp is not difficult. You’re talking 200+ HP/L which is nearly unheard of from American engine. It’s a mini EcoBeast!

Well that's what separates the two school of owners; there are those who like to play with their stuff, and those who want the simplest, most reliable, most durable option out there which sounds amazing (v8) and has more than enough power for all their needs.

Many truck guys are firmly in one camp or the other, nature of the beast.

Me, I'd never bet money on a 2.7 wrung to within an inch of its life, sorry. I just prefer the comforting rumble of a big, reliable v8 that is casually sunday strolling its way through life. I'd buy a turbo over EV though, no question. But if I had the choice, well my username should tell that story.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Well that's what separates the two school of owners; there are those who like to play with their stuff, and those who want the simplest, most reliable, most durable option out there which sounds amazing (v8) and has more than enough power for all their needs.

Many truck guys are firmly in one camp or the other, nature of the beast.

Me, I'd never bet money on a 2.7 wrung to within an inch of its life, sorry. I just prefer the comforting rumble of a big, reliable v8 that is casually sunday strolling its way through life. I'd buy a turbo over EV though, no question. But if I had the choice, well my username should tell that story.

If you’ve bought a gas engine to do the work of a diesel, you’re always going to be disappointed.

 

[Enthusiast]

Timing chains for the 3.5/3.7 duratrac are on big back order. I think the ecoboosts use the same one? Not 100% sure. FWIW.

That does seem very high for labor cost. JMO. Basically doing a 3.5 chain driven water pump. I do them for a little more than 1/3 of that.

Wait a minute, I thought the RWD versions of the Cyclone (Duratec) had the exterior water pump that was Not driven by the timing chain.

 

[mattd]

Wait a minute, I thought the RWD versions of the Cyclone (Duratec) had the exterior water pump that was Not driven by the timing chain.

Another that did not read my post correctly…

I said it’s LIKE doing a 3.7 water pump in a transverse mounted application labor wise. I am well aware the longitudinal mounted engines have external water pumps.

 

[hemioiler]

If you’ve bought a gas engine to do the work of a diesel, you’re always going to be disappointed.

The comment I wrote had nothing do with diesel vs gas, it was comparing your example 2.7 which was tuned to level 11 vs a stock N/A gasser.


As for gas vs diesel, it depends on what you're pulling, how often, and how far. Would I rather tow with a diesel? Yeah, I would. But when it comes to maintenance, reliability, cost of ownership, daily driving, I'd rather own a simple, large displacement N/A gasser.