2012 Accent, 0W20, and Warranty

[cingkrab]

Originally Posted By: Promo
Has not been done. I'm on quite a few of them, nobody has done so.
But honestly, do you really think they'll void your claim if you use a better oil?


That's the million dollar question. Of course everyone here knows that 0W20 exeeds 5W20 viscosity requirements. But "should" not and "would" not are two different matters.

 

[cingkrab]

So after a few back and forths, I got bumped up to a CS Coordinator. This was his last email:

"Without going too much into detail, I reviewed with our Technical department who advised me that the 0w20 oil actually has less viscosity than the 5w20 recommended in the Owner's Manual. The oils are tested by the manufacturer and the optimal and correct oil usage is indicated in the Owner's Manual. If you would like the maintain your warranty then we recommend that you use the oil indicated in the Owner's Manual only."

Not sure what else to say to them at this point. And yes, I've brought up the point that Mobil 1 considers 0w20 can be used as a direct substitute for 5w20.

 

[JOD]

Originally Posted By: cingkrab

"Without going too much into detail,


that's an understatement

Originally Posted By: cingkrab
"I reviewed with our Technical department who advised me that the 0w20 oil actually has less viscosity than the 5w20 recommended in the Owner's Manual."


The SAE disagree with him, and they're the ones who have been providing the standards for oil grades for the last 100 years. 0W and 5W oils have the exact same standards for minimum viscosity at operating temps: http://widman.biz/English/Tables/J300.html Thank Widman for the cool chart!



Originally Posted By: cingkrab
Not sure what else to say to them at this point. And yes, I've brought up the point that Mobil 1 considers 0w20 can be used as a direct substitute for 5w20.


Not sure either. Ask their engineers to read the entire SAE J300 paper which explains the grading of oil? Obviously, their "technical department" is a little off the back.

 

[CATERHAM]

Good points JOD and cingkrab good for you on going over the CS's head.

I would reply again, something to the effect;

""The recommended oil in the manual has a HTHS viscosity of 2.6cP at 150C, the minimum for the SAE 20 weight grade. All 20wt oils, be they 5W-20 or 0W-20 must have a HTHSV equal to or greater than 2.6cP @ 150C.
The advantages of the 0W-20 grade over the 5W-20 are many, including the fact that they are all synthetic to be able to meet the 0W flow requirements at very cold temperatures.
So you are correct that the 0W-20 grade "has less viscosity" than the 5W-20 grade but only on start-up when all motor oil has a much higher than necessary viscosity. Being lighter is what give the 0W-20 oil it's technical superiority over a 5W-20 and better lubrication on start-up.

Once the engine oil is up to operating temperature there is no difference in the minimum viscosity betwen a 5W-20 and a 0W-20, but because the 0W-20 oil is made from higher quality base oil stocks than the 5W-20 recommended in the Owner's Manual the 0W-20 will retain it's viscosity longer.

This is not my opinion but is fact. No Tribologist (lubrication chemist/engineer) would dispute this.

I would ask that you review again the position you've taken.
This is after all Canada and we have cold winters. I want to use the best lubricants available in my Hyundai to maximize it's life and when it comes to engine oil that is the synthetic 0W-20 grade. ""

 

[cingkrab]

OK after mentioning the specs from SAE J300 (thanks JOD and CATERHAM), I received this reply:

"Your technical knowledge in this area seems to be solid and comprehensive and we really appreciate your opinion.

Your message will be forwarded to the engineering department in order to revise the engine oil specifications. Since you are the owner of the vehicle you can use the oil quality you believe will improve the engine performances on your own responsibility. At this time the technical department strongly suggests the usage of the Owner's Manual's specific oil quality. The specified engien oil was tested under various testing conditions, including the tough climate requirements and has been approved by Hyundai Auto Canada."

I'm hoping this actually goes somewhere. Still sounds like "use at your own risk" at this point.

 

[Sayjac]

Originally Posted By: poiuy223
Responses like that make me feel that customer service reps work like robots. They see 5w-20 in the manual...that's the only oil allowed in the car.

That's exactly what they are, and what they are going to say. It's CYA, and Hyundai is no different here than any other manufacturer when it comes to this type of response. The folks that work the phones go by the book, period. They know nothing of 0w20 being superior to 5w20 and couldn't care less. Their answer comes as no surprise to me.

Now if you go by MMWA, (Hyundai has to prove the failure is related to using 0w20), and the OP is prepared, willing and able to fight Hyundai in court should something happen to the engine, then by all means use the 0w20. No biggie.

Bottom line, it is what it is, but Hyundai reps are no different than other auto manufacturers. By the book, CYA.

 

[CATERHAM]

Originally Posted By: cingkrab
OK after mentioning the specs from SAE J300 (thanks JOD and CATERHAM), I received this reply:
"Your technical knowledge in this area seems to be solid and comprehensive and we really appreciate your opinion.
Your message will be forwarded to the engineering department in order to revise the engine oil specifications. Since you are the owner of the vehicle you can use the oil quality you believe will improve the engine performances on your own responsibility. At this time the technical department strongly suggests the usage of the Owner's Manual's specific oil quality. The specified engien oil was tested under various testing conditions, including the tough climate requirements and has been approved by Hyundai Auto Canada."

I'm hoping this actually goes somewhere. Still sounds like "use at your own risk" at this point.

Well you're definitely making some progress.
My interpretation of their response is that you and you alone can use the 0W-20 oil that you want to use since you appear to know what you're doing. In the meantime they have forwarded on your recommendations to revise the grade recommendation.
At this point in time, that may be all you can hope for.

In Corp' speak this is a big reversal from the initial void your warranty remark. Everyone has to save face here.
I'd print off the email and affix it to your warranty book.
I think you're safe to go and run the 0W-20 of your choice.

 

[cingkrab]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
Originally Posted By: cingkrab
OK after mentioning the specs from SAE J300 (thanks JOD and CATERHAM), I received this reply:
"Your technical knowledge in this area seems to be solid and comprehensive and we really appreciate your opinion.
Your message will be forwarded to the engineering department in order to revise the engine oil specifications. Since you are the owner of the vehicle you can use the oil quality you believe will improve the engine performances on your own responsibility. At this time the technical department strongly suggests the usage of the Owner's Manual's specific oil quality. The specified engien oil was tested under various testing conditions, including the tough climate requirements and has been approved by Hyundai Auto Canada."

I'm hoping this actually goes somewhere. Still sounds like "use at your own risk" at this point.

Well you're definitely making some progress.
My interpretation of their response is that you and you alone can use the 0W-20 oil that you want to use since you appear to know what you're doing. In the meantime they have forwarded on your recommendations to revise the grade recommendation.
At this point in time, that may be all you can hope for.

In Corp' speak this is a big reversal from the initial void your warranty remark. Everyone has to save face here.
I'd print off the email and affix it to your warranty book.
I think you're safe to go and run the 0W-20 of your choice.


Not so sure I'd interpret it that way. The "on your own responsibility" part sounds to me like "hey, you're so sure it ain't gonna break the engine, so you ain't gonna need a warranty on it right?"

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: cingkrab
I'm hoping this actually goes somewhere. Still sounds like "use at your own risk" at this point.


I agree, but at least that reply is somewhat promising. I wonder if the various Canadian branches of the various manufacturers know what's actually going on in their dealerships, though. Hyundai is telling you to use 5w-20, and Infiniti calls for 5w-30, and Ford calls for their 5w-20 (for the most part). Yet, the local Infiniti dealership pushes BG MOA with all their oil changes. One of the local Ford dealerships also sells BG MOA, BG non-API oils, and RP SL rated oils.

If I were foolish enough to pay the outrageous Infiniti dealer price for an oil change, why should I have them put in BG MOA, contrary to explicit manual instructions? I understand that dealerships want to make more money. I have no qualms with that. Push the Mobil 1 instead of the conventional. Push Genuine Nissan Ester Oil. Push 3,000 mile OCIs or an air filter at every OCI. Don't push silly additives or non-API oil.

 

[CATERHAM]

It's true that dealers run non spec' oil all the time.
I know our local Honda dealer uses only two grades, 5W-20 and 0W-20, and that's what everything pretty much gets including cars like the Si Civic that spec's 5W-30.

Oil choice is simply a non issue when a warranty claim rears it's head. That's why the subtle distinction between a 5W-20 and 0W-20 really nonsensical.

This thread is not about a warranty claim being denied but rather the threat of it by those that don't even make warranty decisions. And it's not just Hyundai, every manufacturer will give the same response if you want to use a non specified oil no matter how much sense it makes.

 

[Garak]

Originally Posted By: CATERHAM
This thread is not about a warranty claim being denied but rather the threat of it by those that don't even make warranty decisions. And it's not just Hyundai, every manufacturer will give the same response if you want to use a non specified oil no matter how much sense it makes.


Agreed. The manufacturers should be more concerned with customers using something totally off base. A 10w-30 or a 0w-30 are really not an issue (climate dependent of course) in an engine speced for 5w-30, and a 0w-20 is a fine choice for an engine speced for 0w-20. The manufacturers should also be more concerned with what their dealers are selling or pushing for their oil change packages.

I was absolutely appalled at seeing a certain non-OEM oil additive being pushed by two separate, unrelated dealerships this week. I wasn't very impressed with seeing non-API rated oil on the shelves, either. Once again, I'm glad I do my own oil changes. Infiniti wants around $70 for an oil change. I did my own for around $20, and that's with our expensive Canadian oil and filters.

 

[Ross]

The Honda 0w20 went into the 2011 Hyundai Accent 1.6 (1500 miles)
this past weekend. I didn't notice anything unusual about the new oil. I have an ultra gauge hooked up to the computer and my mileage is up slightly. Nothing unusual to report. I had bought 4 cases of this oil found in the rebate section. Since I didn't notice anything different I just ordered anothe case. I also saw that they had the 14mm crush drain plug washers at 23 cents each. Hyundai wants $1.00 each so I ordered about 30 of them. So now I have a lifetime oil and plug gasket supply. Once I get some miles on the car I will post UOA's

 

[CATERHAM]

Congrats on the Idemitsu 0W-20 score!