'16 Big Turbo Golf R running Ethanol Blend

MSH

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If that UOA is correct use a 50 without ester.
I swapped out to same oil except in 5W-40 flavor, so is ester based as well. At this point I'm riding it out for 3k and then see what the #'s look like. I'll definitely pivot to something else if I see similar #s
 
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It's hard to give recommendations without knowing how reliable
that analysis is. However I don't think using a 5W-50 in summer
and 0W/5W-40 is a mistake. OCIs are as short as being practically
possible.
I don't think 'ester based' is actually much more than marketing.
Group 5 makes probably less than 5 % while majority is group 3
and 4. Calling it 'HC based' is likely closer to truth. That said AN
has some benefits over esters, even over polyolesters.
 
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It's supposed to be 17.9 mm²/s = 17.9 cSt. Seems unreal an oil could shear that much.
Fuel at <0.5 % doesn't explain it. Isn't Ethanol measured?

two VOAs:

IASathu.jpeg




index.php


That Noack on 5W50? Holy ester :)
 
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It's hard to give recommendations without knowing how reliable
that analysis is. However I don't think using a 5W-50 in summer
and 0W/5W-40 is a mistake. OCIs are as short as being practically
possible.
I don't think 'ester based' is actually much more than marketing.
Group 5 makes probably less than 5 % while majority is group 3
and 4. Calling it 'HC based' is likely closer to truth. That said AN
has some benefits over esters, even over polyolesters.
Noack is too low for HC. 6.8% is an achievement in 5W30 grade let alone 5W50. That is genuine ester based oil.
 
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Majority is Group 3 and 4.


I'd even say there's no single majority group 5 (= 'ester based') Motul existing.
 
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Majority is Group 3 and 4.


I'd even say there's no single majority group 5 (= 'ester based') Motul existing.
Well, if majority PAO to achieve 6.8% Noack in 5W50 is still remarkable. I would not doubt a second this is exceptional oil, Esters or PAO, whatever.
300V? Based on HTHS numbers, it has to be Ester or they pulled trick with PAO and achieved such low KV100 and such high HTHS.
 

MSH

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Assuming the Motul Sport 5W-40 comes back after 3k with similar drop in cSt viscosity #'s as the 5W50 I'm probably going to change up to one of the other Motul 5W40 oils. Would Xcess or Xclean be the better oil to use based on my mods/intended use?
 
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Assuming the Motul Sport 5W-40 comes back after 3k with similar drop in cSt viscosity #'s as the 5W50 I'm probably going to change up to one of the other Motul 5W40 oils. Would Xcess or Xclean be the better oil to use based on my mods/intended use?
Don't use an oil with any ester. Ester at any rate and alcohol fuels is not a good combo. @edyvw will have some good suggestions. I would still run a 50 there was still a small improvement anyway.
 
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Don't use an oil with any ester. Ester at any rate and alcohol fuels is not a good combo. @edyvw will have some good suggestions. I would still run a 50 there was still a small improvement anyway.
You know more about alcohol and ester, but if so, I would definitely try then Mobil1 5W50, though Mobil1 has some ester in it (small amounts as a stabilizer).
Castrol Edge 5W50 might be another option but on paper at least, it is HC oil. Maybe. Another option, although I am definitely not a fan of their products is Liqui Moly 5W50. Mobil1 15W50 in summer might be a good option. Cheap, readily available.
Motul X-Cess and X-Clean are stout street oils with really good HTHS of 3.8 and 3.9. Definitely an option to try. In winter though Castrol 0W40 is IMO way to go if short OCI. KV100 of Castrol 0W40 and Motul X-Cess and X-Clean are in the ballpark.
 
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Guess short OCIs are much more important than the choice of oil in this case.
Well it depends how short you want them, you can still get 3k out of the most stable oil/grade. If you had some of the choices here in Australia with Nulon you can still run nearly 5k with a little track time and ethanol fuel (e85).
 
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Holy shear! Either Blackstone made mistake or that engine really beats down oil.
Blackstone uses open cup flash to extrapolate fuel which is not very accurate. A good test with a closed cup flash would probably show 3-4% fuel with a visc number like that.

High Fe due to the diminished film, however, the Motul handled the EtOH ok (at least what B-stone test shows). Either way, that car will be long gone or 50 years old before any significant wear cripples it with the current OCI and miles/year.
 

MSH

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Well it depends how short you want them, you can still get 3k out of the most stable oil/grade. If you had some of the choices here in Australia with Nulon you can still run nearly 5k with a little track time and ethanol fuel (e85).
The crazy thing here is I'm only on E30 (blending 91 pump and E85) and the factory Direct injection. Plenty of people out there with this platform (as well as GTIs and Audi S3s with same motor) are running MPI (Multiport injection) and full E85. I have been considering switching over next year as moving to MPI and full E85 would get me another 50-60whp and also the valve cleaning benefits of Port injection vs stock DI. My question is with the even higher ethanol content of E85 I assume my shearing issues will only be amplified further? Am I going to have to change oil every 1.5-2k miles?
 
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Blackstone uses open cup flash to extrapolate fuel which is not very accurate. A good test with a closed cup flash would probably show 3-4% fuel with a visc number like that.

High Fe due to the diminished film, however, the Motul handled the EtOH ok (at least what B-stone test shows). Either way, that car will be long gone or 50 years old before any significant wear cripples it with the current OCI and miles/year.
VW engines generally result in higher Fe. There is also a downtrend. But his flashpoint is still excellent, so I think it is questionable how much fuel there is in the fuel.
He can change the company that does UOA and see what are values.
 
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VW engines generally result in higher Fe. There is also a downtrend. But his flashpoint is still excellent, so I think it is questionable how much fuel there is in the fuel.
He can change the company that does UOA and see what are values.
That they do. On my 13th modern one. Still, I believe there may be more fuel in the oil than we think. His level of tune would suggest big fuel, I would start by looking at STFT and P/W to get a good idea how much is going in.

Blackstone is like the Walmart of UOAs, you can get what you need, cheap, readily available, but sometimes lacking. Where you get what you pay for is in the interpretation. Not too hateful for $30-40 though.

I think y'all's other suggestions are on the right track. Cooling and interval would be key for this beast IMHO. I'd personally start with cooling, especially at altitude. Happy Motoring.
 
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The crazy thing here is I'm only on E30 (blending 91 pump and E85) and the factory Direct injection. Plenty of people out there with this platform (as well as GTIs and Audi S3s with same motor) are running MPI (Multiport injection) and full E85. I have been considering switching over next year as moving to MPI and full E85 would get me another 50-60whp and also the valve cleaning benefits of Port injection vs stock DI. My question is with the even higher ethanol content of E85 I assume my shearing issues will only be amplified further? Am I going to have to change oil every 1.5-2k miles?

No its actually very similar from 30-85%. The ethanol gets into the oil does its damage and then is easily burnt off that's why you won't find as much fuel in the oil.

 

MSH

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.....I would start by looking at STFT and P/W to get a good idea how much is going in.....
I think y'all's other suggestions are on the right track. Cooling and interval would be key for this beast IMHO. I'd personally start with cooling, especially at altitude. Happy Motoring.

I have STFT data from logs on my Cobb Accessport. Not sure what P/W is?

I've done some cooling upgrades. CSF DSG and Auxiliary coolers --> https://csfrace.com/csf-cooling-releases-the-missing-link-for-the-mqb-platform/
From the feedback on the mk7 track forums for this platform the main CSF radiator upgrade hasn't provided the benefits that most anticipated so I elected not to upgrade from the stock one. An oil cooler is definitely on the list at some point. The issue is the current offerings are not that great with only 10 row coolers (Racingline). Some have cobbled together some more efficient solutions w/ 13-19 row coolers, however, they seem to be a real PITA to piece together and install so I've held off.

No its actually very similar from 30-85%. The ethanol gets into the oil does its damage and then is easily burnt off that's why you won't find as much fuel in the oil.


Ok thanks for the info. At this point I'll see how the data shakes out on the next UOA with the Motul Sport 5W40. Based on edyvw's guidance I'm leaning towards giving M1 5W50 a go for the next oil change in early Summer.
 
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I would go that 10 row cooler if it is not too much work. 10 row is better than 0 row :)
CSF upgrade will probably have some benefits in conjunction with oil cooler. People don’t see benefits as they want to avoid installing oil cooler. IMO at this altitude oil cooler is reality people have to accept.
 
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I have STFT data from logs on my Cobb Accessport. Not sure what P/W is?

I've done some cooling upgrades. CSF DSG and Auxiliary coolers --> https://csfrace.com/csf-cooling-releases-the-missing-link-for-the-mqb-platform/
From the feedback on the mk7 track forums for this platform the main CSF radiator upgrade hasn't provided the benefits that most anticipated so I elected not to upgrade from the stock one. An oil cooler is definitely on the list at some point. The issue is the current offerings are not that great with only 10 row coolers (Racingline). Some have cobbled together some more efficient solutions w/ 13-19 row coolers, however, they seem to be a real PITA to piece together and install so I've held off.
CSF aux coolers are better than OE ones, but not quite as good as the bigger Setrab units. However, they are much easier to install as noted. Pay to play I suppose. Jury still out on coolant radiator unless dedicated racing, lots getting good results with Water Wetter/h2o mix vs. standard coolant but YMMV.

P/W is injector pulse width or injector "window". Obviously when the read goes lean, the tune programming opens up the P/W first to compensate until there is rail pressure drop. Then depending on who does your tune, and what fueling mods you have, more fuel is signaled by the low side pump modulator/controller to deliver what is needed to prevent high side drop. All stacks up to more fuel entering the combustion chamber and under F/I, gets into the oil. Yes, EtOH volitizes through heat/use, but not before film can be compromised. Residuals can tax the reserve alkalinity of most oils and why short intervals are recommended. Or use an oil that deals with alcohol fuels well. RLI anyone?
 
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