'16 Big Turbo Golf R running Ethanol Blend

I would go that 10 row cooler if it is not too much work. 10 row is better than 0 row :)
CSF upgrade will probably have some benefits in conjunction with oil cooler. People don’t see benefits as they want to avoid installing oil cooler. IMO at this altitude oil cooler is reality people have to accept.

copy. just saw over the weekend that someone has a brand new one up for sale on one of the mk7 forums for a good deal so may pick it up. The other downside of this kit is they use a proprietary stainless filter. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-racingl...-oil-filter-for-vwr18g700-only/vwr180001~vwr/
They recommend replacing every oil change which at $60 a pop is crazy. I'll probably buy a second one and just clean and re-use and swap each oil change

CSF aux coolers are better than OE ones, but not quite as good as the bigger Setrab units. However, they are much easier to install as noted. Pay to play I suppose. Jury still out on coolant radiator unless dedicated racing, lots getting good results with Water Wetter/h2o mix vs. standard coolant but YMMV.

P/W is injector pulse width or injector "window". Obviously when the read goes lean, the tune programming opens up the P/W first to compensate until there is rail pressure drop. Then depending on who does your tune, and what fueling mods you have, more fuel is signaled by the low side pump modulator/controller to deliver what is needed to prevent high side drop. All stacks up to more fuel entering the combustion chamber and under F/I, gets into the oil. Yes, EtOH volitizes through heat/use, but not before film can be compromised. Residuals can tax the reserve alkalinity of most oils and why short intervals are recommended. Or use an oil that deals with alcohol fuels well. RLI anyone?
Haven't seen anyone use Setrab's for the Auxiliary coolers yet. For oil coolers, yes, but not on the DSG & Aux coolers on the Golf Rs. Yes, have seen the WaterWetter positive feedback. Definitely worth trying as well

Thanks for the clarification on the injector window acronym. I'll have to review my logs again and see if that data is detailed. There is some customization with the Cobb Accessport so I might be able to add that in (assuming not already on my logs) if it's an available field/data point.
Equilibrium Tuning is my tuner. I have pretty much everything on the fueling side (short of converting to MPI). I didn't want to risk any lack of fueling whatsoever since that obviously can be catastrophic. I have upgraded HPFP(Autotech), LPFP (Pagparts 535 Walbro) and I upgraded the stock fuel controller to a Torqbyte PM4.
 
CSF aux coolers are better than OE ones, but not quite as good as the bigger Setrab units. However, they are much easier to install as noted. Pay to play I suppose. Jury still out on coolant radiator unless dedicated racing, lots getting good results with Water Wetter/h2o mix vs. standard coolant but YMMV.

P/W is injector pulse width or injector "window". Obviously when the read goes lean, the tune programming opens up the P/W first to compensate until there is rail pressure drop. Then depending on who does your tune, and what fueling mods you have, more fuel is signaled by the low side pump modulator/controller to deliver what is needed to prevent high side drop. All stacks up to more fuel entering the combustion chamber and under F/I, gets into the oil. Yes, EtOH volitizes through heat/use, but not before film can be compromised. Residuals can tax the reserve alkalinity of most oils and why short intervals are recommended. Or use an oil that deals with alcohol fuels well. RLI anyone?
I saw some photos of recent CSF stuff and quality took dramatic hit. Fit and finish is horrid. They actually put printed note in boxes blaming COVID pandemic on inability to do more thorough QC.
 
copy. just saw over the weekend that someone has a brand new one up for sale on one of the mk7 forums for a good deal so may pick it up. The other downside of this kit is they use a proprietary stainless filter. https://www.ecstuning.com/b-racingl...-oil-filter-for-vwr18g700-only/vwr180001~vwr/
They recommend replacing every oil change which at $60 a pop is crazy. I'll probably buy a second one and just clean and re-use and swap each oil change


Haven't seen anyone use Setrab's for the Auxiliary coolers yet. For oil coolers, yes, but not on the DSG & Aux coolers on the Golf Rs. Yes, have seen the WaterWetter positive feedback. Definitely worth trying as well

Thanks for the clarification on the injector window acronym. I'll have to review my logs again and see if that data is detailed. There is some customization with the Cobb Accessport so I might be able to add that in (assuming not already on my logs) if it's an available field/data point.
Equilibrium Tuning is my tuner. I have pretty much everything on the fueling side (short of converting to MPI). I didn't want to risk any lack of fueling whatsoever since that obviously can be catastrophic. I have upgraded HPFP(Autotech), LPFP (Pagparts 535 Walbro) and I upgraded the stock fuel controller to a Torqbyte PM4.
That filter looks to me like snake oil.
Get oil cooler, install, run regular oil filter, do UOA. Any abnormalities will show in UOA.
I run oil cooler and cannot see any contamination in oil. Not sure why would this oil cooler shed metals in such way to require specialty oil filter?
 
That filter looks to me like snake oil.
Get oil cooler, install, run regular oil filter, do UOA. Any abnormalities will show in UOA.
I run oil cooler and cannot see any contamination in oil. Not sure why would this oil cooler shed metals in such way to require specialty oil filter?
I'm probably not being clear....you don't have a choice with the Racingline oil cooler. Only their filter fits......it's why many won't buy that oil cooler but right now its pretty much the only game in town for "off the shelf" mk7 oil coolers unless you want to cobble together your own custom one, which some folks have done.
 
I'm probably not being clear....you don't have a choice with the Racingline oil cooler. Only their filter fits......it's why many won't buy that oil cooler but right now its pretty much the only game in town for "off the shelf" mk7 oil coolers unless you want to cobble together your own custom one, which some folks have done.
Ah ok. So that oil cooler comes with its specific oil filter housing?
Yeah, that sucks.
 
I saw some photos of recent CSF stuff and quality took dramatic hit. Fit and finish is horrid. They actually put printed note in boxes blaming COVID pandemic on inability to do more thorough QC.
Thats a shame. CSF quality used to be top notch. Racingline stuff is super nice, but very pricey. And they "lock you in" with replacement parts. One of the reasons I ditched the R600 intake on my GTI. Replacement foam filter was $$$ and quality was meh. Stock box flowed just as well.

Sounds like you have sufficient fueling but with BT and E30 you may be close. Do you have Ed's E30 tune or a custom E-tune? He does it right and was the only game in town for running E with stock HPFP for a while. Right before selling my GTI, I had all of the parts for MPI including the complete A2B low side brushless kit. If you decide to upgrade to MPI (I would if running corn), consider one of these for LPFP. Comes with own controller and is plug and play. Never run out of fuel.

Give the 5W-50 a try and see what it does. If you decide to stay with something along the lines of the pricey French stuff, give RLI a try. Their SHD 5W-40 has phenomenal stability and is very ethanol friendly.
 
I'll have a UOA of the Molygen + MoS2 that I ran for the VIR HPDE I did this past weekend - not as much power as the OP's R but in the ballpark of pushing more power, larger turbo, and E25 etc. Last time it showed the expected lower viscosity but looked fine otherwise. Was cool so oil temps were lower - about 230 the few times I glanced.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MSH
Same oil to 3k miles, how much quicker with ethanol.

1001-Graph-worn-out-oil.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: MSH
Thats a shame. CSF quality used to be top notch. Racingline stuff is super nice, but very pricey. And they "lock you in" with replacement parts. One of the reasons I ditched the R600 intake on my GTI. Replacement foam filter was $$$ and quality was meh. Stock box flowed just as well.

Sounds like you have sufficient fueling but with BT and E30 you may be close. Do you have Ed's E30 tune or a custom E-tune? He does it right and was the only game in town for running E with stock HPFP for a while. Right before selling my GTI, I had all of the parts for MPI including the complete A2B low side brushless kit. If you decide to upgrade to MPI (I would if running corn), consider one of these for LPFP. Comes with own controller and is plug and play. Never run out of fuel.

Give the 5W-50 a try and see what it does. If you decide to stay with something along the lines of the pricey French stuff, give RLI a try. Their SHD 5W-40 has phenomenal stability and is very ethanol friendly.

I have the R600. I swapped out the foam for the cotton filter for ease of maintenance. The cleaning and re-oiling is kind of a PITA on the foam. I did it all the time on my old 2-stroke MX bikes. Doesn't mean I want to continue that pain though on cars!

On fueling I'm perfectly fine for anything a hybrid turbo and full E85 can throw at this thing. I'm on the Big Turbo Mk7 page on Facebook and there are some guys running crazy built block + full frame turbos running my set up. General consensus seems to be the A2B brushless will tap out before Pagparts 535+PM4 set up like I have. I probably would have done that A2B brushless LPFP had it been available but they hadn't quite released it. I'm happy with my setup though. Pagparts does top tier work.
On tune you have to go custom e-tune if you run a bigger turbo like I have so I actually have 3 tunes from Ed...E30 street tune, 91 pump tune, and E30 track day only tune (lower boost, richer AFR, less aggressive timing vs my street tune to be a bit safer and help mitigate heat)
 
Here are some data with ending cST100 and the % drop in viscosity vs. VOA for the 40w oils I've used. I don't have the factory fill b/c I'm not sure what it was/VOA and it was likely a 30W oil. I just projected my last oil removed based on prev. results. I've incrementally added power over time as well as drove the car harder and harder over time which is likely why you see the trends you do. Also I run ethanol blends almost exclusively now.

Presentation 20.jpg
 
  • Like
Reactions: MSH
Here are some data with ending cST100 and the % drop in viscosity vs. VOA for the 40w oils I've used. I don't have the factory fill b/c I'm not sure what it was/VOA and it was likely a 30W oil. I just projected my last oil removed based on prev. results. I've incrementally added power over time as well as drove the car harder and harder over time which is likely why you see the trends you do. Also I run ethanol blends almost exclusively now.

so highest % drop was the M1 0W40 @ ~23%? How many miles on that oil?
If I'm calculating right on my example with the Motul Sport 5W50 the % drop was over 31%.(Motul spec sheet shows 17.9 vs Blackstone analysis on my oil @ 3k miles = 12.29. If you hit 23% doesn't seem out of rhelm of possibility that mine saw a 31% drop knwoing how hard those 3k miles were.
 
so highest % drop was the M1 0W40 @ ~23%? How many miles on that oil?
If I'm calculating right on my example with the Motul Sport 5W50 the % drop was over 31%.(Motul spec sheet shows 17.9 vs Blackstone analysis on my oil @ 3k miles = 12.29. If you hit 23% doesn't seem out of rhelm of possibility that mine saw a 31% drop knwoing how hard those 3k miles were.
Yes, the largest drop I saw was the M1 0W40 - that oil had just shy of 5K miles on it. It's a reasonable data point vs. other UOAs from folks with tuned MQB VAG turbo cars using that same oil with somewhat (to me anyway) large drops in viscosity but of course there are always outliers and I'd need several changes with that oil to say much - I have no issues with that oil as so many use it and I personally used it in my old MK4 Jetta with ~10K changes or 220K with no drama. Also seemingly off is the Leichlauf HT data point that stayed 40W over a ~6K change (second data point on my graph) - odd vs. all the other LM data I have showing about the same % drop. One thing to keep in mind - I would do a new oil analysis on that Motul and see what BS uses and use that number vs. Motul's spec sheet so it's consinstent w/r to the method etc. That's how I did mine. I tihnk you need to really build a dataset much like I did to know what's normal and what's not for your car in your conditions....that, to me, is the value with UOAs.
 
.... One thing to keep in mind - I would do a new oil analysis on that Motul and see what BS uses and use that number vs. Motul's spec sheet so it's consinstent w/r to the method etc. That's how I did mine. I tihnk you need to really build a dataset much like I did to know what's normal and what's not for your car in your conditions....that, to me, is the value with UOAs.

Looks like 930.engineering did a virgin Blackstone analysis on the 5W50 Motul Sport and it came back a touch lower @ 17.7 (vs Motul Spec sheet @ 17.9) https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ning-ethanol-blend.336456/page-4#post-5925800
Granted that was done almost 5 yrs ago now. Not sure if the oil has changed much in that time?

I'll be taking my R to the next level here shortly which should tax the oil even more, so will see how that goes. With EQT's boost weather sale I picked up 3 new tunes to move to MPI. Precision Raceworks does a Black Friday sale so I'll pick up their 925cc injector MPI kit and their larger fuel lines. I'm having Ed do up an aggressive full E85 tune, a more balanced/moderate E40 tune, and a 91 pump tune.
With the higher ethanol levels and the anticipated additional 50-60whp on the full E85 tune should be interesting to see how the oil holds up.
 
Looks like 930.engineering did a virgin Blackstone analysis on the 5W50 Motul Sport and it came back a touch lower @ 17.7 (vs Motul Spec sheet @ 17.9) https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/t...ning-ethanol-blend.336456/page-4#post-5925800
Granted that was done almost 5 yrs ago now. Not sure if the oil has changed much in that time?

I'll be taking my R to the next level here shortly which should tax the oil even more, so will see how that goes. With EQT's boost weather sale I picked up 3 new tunes to move to MPI. Precision Raceworks does a Black Friday sale so I'll pick up their 925cc injector MPI kit and their larger fuel lines. I'm having Ed do up an aggressive full E85 tune, a more balanced/moderate E40 tune, and a 91 pump tune.
With the higher ethanol levels and the anticipated additional 50-60whp on the full E85 tune should be interesting to see how the oil holds up.
For sure! Your R will RIP!
 
Posted in the UOA thread but relevent here as well...from Blackstone:

"And with regards to our previous conversation, my colleagues and I couldn't find statistically significant data on an oil brand that holds up better than others in the VW Turbos. However, I did find this interesting. We found no correlation between a slightly low viscosity due to engine shearing and poor wear."
 
  • Like
Reactions: MSH
For sure! Your R will RIP!

And just in case it's the RIP one typically doesn't want to happen with an engine I already have quotes on built blocks ;)
The good thing is (as I'm sure you are aware) these mk7 engines can handle a **** ton of power very reliably as long as you keep the tq in check and in that 420-440 lb/ft neighborhood. With that said things happen so want to be prepared.

Posted in the UOA thread but relevent here as well...from Blackstone:

"And with regards to our previous conversation, my colleagues and I couldn't find statistically significant data on an oil brand that holds up better than others in the VW Turbos. However, I did find this interesting. We found no correlation between a slightly low viscosity due to engine shearing and poor wear."

I'm curious what the BITOG experts will chime in with in reagrds to these comments. Thx for sharing BTW!
 
That the amazing thing with the VAG MQB cars...so easy to add power and so rubust to handle it...even my pedestrian 1.8! I was running Liqumoly Molygen 5W40 that had a few K on it and changed it after last week - out for UOA...will likely look like it did last year when I did a track event...down on viscosity but good single-digit wear metals. This event was over 3 hours on the track. Oil temps were around 230 b/c air temps were in the 50s or most of it and elevations are ~450' msl.

_23A3014.JPG
_23A1111.JPG
 
That the amazing thing with the VAG MQB cars...so easy to add power and so rubust to handle it...even my pedestrian 1.8! I was running Liqumoly Molygen 5W40 that had a few K on it and changed it after last week - out for UOA...will likely look like it did last year when I did a track event...down on viscosity but good single-digit wear metals. This event was over 3 hours on the track. Oil temps were around 230 b/c air temps were in the 50s or most of it and elevations are ~450' msl.

Nice! I've seen some great builds on the 1.8s as well with big power. Is anyone running more that you are aware of than Nikolai's(Futrell in OR) wagon? I know he was a built block but still was very impressive on the 1.8. I'm sure you have seen Innovative working on the Alltrack DAZA swap. I would love to do that to my R but the cost is just out of control with having to find a donor car and the swap itself.
 
Nice! I've seen some great builds on the 1.8s as well with big power. Is anyone running more that you are aware of than Nikolai's(Futrell in OR) wagon? I know he was a built block but still was very impressive on the 1.8. I'm sure you have seen Innovative working on the Alltrack DAZA swap. I would love to do that to my R but the cost is just out of control with having to find a donor car and the swap itself.
Nikolai's is a powerful one for sure. A few have done the Golf R engine swap and yes....the DAZA is the crem de la crem. I think my IS38 setup is a sweet spot...fine daily and more than adequate for some drag racing/track fun. My issues at this point aren't power, it's handling which is pretty solid actually....looking or some added negative camber now.
 
  • Like
Reactions: MSH
..... My issues at this point aren't power, it's handling which is pretty solid actually....looking or some added negative camber now.
I hated the handling of the R stock. I came from a track sorted RWD BMW M coupe that was just incredible in the twisties and on the track. It was no where as fast in a straight line as the R but handling was so much better plus being RWD...I just prefer RWD on the track.
The R stock understeered like a pig. Adding just the RSB was huge but now with the chassis bracing, Eurosport Camber mounts, Bilstein PSS10s, deadset kit, LCAs it handles great. I do think the RSB is the biggest bang for buck though on this car. If I would only do one suspension mod on this car that would be it.
 
Back
Top