Severely sludged 2001 Avalon 3.0 and ARX-ideas?

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Originally Posted By: jaj
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
I am really curious to see if the consumption slows now with a working PCV system.


That's the most important question at this point. If the engine's no longer at the brink of failure, then the slower the clean-up the better.


Then just clean it slowly using the maintenance dose. The top up oil should have have the correct ratio of ARX in it. ie 3oz to 5L or so, ready to fill so the concentration of the engine oil and ARX remains the same.
 
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Quote:
One important note is to be sure that the oil pumped up to the top end can drain back down to the sump. If not then this motor will never be corrected.


One condition that never occurred to me (thanks Rich). An accumulation ..or backlog of drain back oil would get whipped up in the valve train and naturally migrate out the PCV system at a much higher rate. Windage, so to speak, that would not normally be there. Consumption would only vary due to the duration of the backlog state(s). It doesn't have to be THAT much of a mismatch if the event is long enough.
 
Originally Posted By: Rick20
One important note is to be sure that the oil pumped up to the top end can drain back down to the sump. If not then this motor will never be corrected.


That particular engine has that drain problem by design. One reason guys went to synthetic.
 
Originally Posted By: ChiTDI
Originally Posted By: Rick20
One important note is to be sure that the oil pumped up to the top end can drain back down to the sump. If not then this motor will never be corrected.


That particular engine has that drain problem by design. One reason guys went to synthetic.


Which probably means the oil return holes in the cylinder heads are very small.
 
I hate to report, but he called today and the consumption rate is still dead on 1 quart for 200 miles, and he still sees a nice 30 sec smoke cloud during morning cold starts. He said the oil is still looking very clean on the dipstick so far. He plans to change the filter at 750 miles, then change the oil and filter at 1500 miles if it looks dirty enough.
 
If you want to experiment:

Drain the oil, fill it to the brim with diesel and turn it over a couple times, let it sit overnight. Drain the diesel out. Run a very quick 500 mile dino OCI. Drain that. Fill it up again with what you plan to use.

What can it hurt? It's worth a shot; after all, you've tried the expensive stuff already.
 
Quote:
the consumption rate is still dead on 1 quart for 200 miles, and he still sees a nice 30 sec smoke cloud during morning cold starts.


Can you have him install a catch can or elongate the PCV hose by a decent amount (coil the thing up so it will drain back when off- run it around the engine bay if need be)?? I'd wager that the 30 sec oil smoke is cached oil in the hose/manifold.
 
A lot of good advise here, and hopefully this works out. To the OP make sure you use an OEM PCV valve. I'm not saying the PCV valve is the cause here, but I've had problems with after market PCV valves causing oil consumption. It would really suck to have the sludge problem corrected and not knowing because a replacement PCV valve could now be causing oil consumption issues, after the ring packs, etc are cleaned up and working properly. It might sound ridiculous, but a faulty aftermarket PCV valve could mask a lot of good hard work, and positive results. Just a thought.
 
bmwtechguy,

You've got to two separate issues going on. Sludge and Consumption. One is causing the other.

Your brother in law needs to get his sump up to heat for sustained periods. The longer, the better. This will allow Auto-Rx to liquefy the sludge in the drain back holes. Run it long and hard. Keep oil topped up and otherwise follow the mileage instructions for the application.

The oil consumption is most surely due to clogged drain back holes that are allowing oil to amass in the upper valve train. This is a known characteristic of this engine. This whips oil everywhere and entrains it with the normal PCV flow.

Looking forward to your post on results.
 
Originally Posted By: dbdeland


You've got to two separate issues going on. Sludge and Consumption. One is causing the other.

Your brother in law needs to get his sump up to heat for sustained periods. The longer, the better. This will allow Auto-Rx to liquefy the sludge in the drain back holes. Run it long and hard.


Running it long and hard is the way. The hotter, the longer, the better. If it's possible to drive it a few hundred miles per weekend it might make all the difference. It would be interesting to see if it is down a full quart after a 200 mile sustained trip.
Wouldn't using Mobil Delvac be worth trying, given all the detergents in heavy duty diesel oil?
 
Originally Posted By: Art_Vandelay
Originally Posted By: dbdeland


You've got to two separate issues going on. Sludge and Consumption. One is causing the other.

Your brother in law needs to get his sump up to heat for sustained periods. The longer, the better. This will allow Auto-Rx to liquefy the sludge in the drain back holes. Run it long and hard.


Running it long and hard is the way. The hotter, the longer, the better. If it's possible to drive it a few hundred miles per weekend it might make all the difference. It would be interesting to see if it is down a full quart after a 200 mile sustained trip.
Wouldn't using Mobil Delvac be worth trying, given all the detergents in heavy duty diesel oil?


This is what he needs to do, period.
 
Yesterday he called to say that he started it up cold in the morning and had NO SMOKE at all! Verses an "impressive cloud of smoke" as he has described it, on every other morning. Coincidentally, the family was on their way to Pep Boys at my advice to buy a bunch of the Shell oil/proline filter $10 oil change specials, limit 2 per person. He said that they got a bunch of 5W-30 and 10W-40(for his 93 F150 302).

We used a Purolator brand of PCV valve. Is the idea of the catch can so that the oil can drop into the can as it goes through vs going to the intake directly and being consumed? I guess this way you would should be able to see oil collect in this can over time. Thanks for the idea. Sort of hard to implement right now since he lives about 45 miles away in Simpsonville, and I am almost in NC.

He has begun driving this car to work instead of his truck, which he has left her to run around in. This way, it never gets less than 40 or 45 mile runs per trip. I told him to work the engine some to get the oil moving around really well. So he claims that is what he is doing every day back and forth to work.

Delvac is a great oil, but for now we will stick to 5W and 10W-30 weights, at least until spring or summer. Later on, a higher detergent/dispersant diesel-rated oil might make good sense, especially in really hot weather with the 15W-40. I have a bunch of CJ-4/SM oil that I got for about $6 per gallon until they nearly doubled the price of this Coastal/Warren oil. For now, he has plenty of oil to "burn through".

The SuperTech 5W-30 that is in the sump now is staying very clear, which makes me think that not much is really going on right now, except that it is still running quietly, which is a good thing. He's going to change just the filter next weekend and run another 1000 miles. Up next, is Castrol GTX for either another 2000 mile rinse or the next cleaning dose. He hasn't decided.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Yesterday he called to say that he started it up cold in the morning and had NO SMOKE at all!


That's great news. Sounds like progress is being made.

How is the fuel economy on the car, has it dropped since this problem began?
 
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Yesterday he called to say that he started it up cold in the morning and had NO SMOKE at all! Verses an "impressive cloud of smoke" as he has described it, on every other morning. Coincidentally, the family was on their way to Pep Boys at my advice to buy a bunch of the Shell oil/proline filter $10 oil change specials, limit 2 per person. He said that they got a bunch of 5W-30 and 10W-40(for his 93 F150 302).

We used a Purolator brand of PCV valve. Is the idea of the catch can so that the oil can drop into the can as it goes through vs going to the intake directly and being consumed? I guess this way you would should be able to see oil collect in this can over time. Thanks for the idea. Sort of hard to implement right now since he lives about 45 miles away in Simpsonville, and I am almost in NC.

He has begun driving this car to work instead of his truck, which he has left her to run around in. This way, it never gets less than 40 or 45 mile runs per trip. I told him to work the engine some to get the oil moving around really well. So he claims that is what he is doing every day back and forth to work.

Delvac is a great oil, but for now we will stick to 5W and 10W-30 weights, at least until spring or summer. Later on, a higher detergent/dispersant diesel-rated oil might make good sense, especially in really hot weather with the 15W-40. I have a bunch of CJ-4/SM oil that I got for about $6 per gallon until they nearly doubled the price of this Coastal/Warren oil. For now, he has plenty of oil to "burn through".

The SuperTech 5W-30 that is in the sump now is staying very clear, which makes me think that not much is really going on right now, except that it is still running quietly, which is a good thing. He's going to change just the filter next weekend and run another 1000 miles. Up next, is Castrol GTX for either another 2000 mile rinse or the next cleaning dose. He hasn't decided.




Sounds like some good news.

BTW-Pep Boys- would advertise every week in the Sunday paper, they don't anymore. Is the Shell Oil/Filter deal still going on? Do they have the add at the store?

Thanks

Frank D
 
Quote:
Is the idea of the catch can so that the oil can drop into the can as it goes through vs going to the intake directly and being consumed?


Think "shop vac". High velocity "stuff" laden inflow ...DEAD SPACE (no velocity) .."stuff" drops out of the flow that suspended it ...high velocity (cleaner) exit flow.

You can accomplish the same deal with adapting to larger tubing ..or lengthening it. You have to make it attempt to climb some kind of vertical column. It will eventually stop and just percolate (if too small) or start draining back (if large enough in diameter). The best way is to manage the alteration in a manner that allows the hose to drain back to the valve cover. That way, it's maintenance free.
 
Originally Posted By: bmwtechguy
Yesterday he called to say that he started it up cold in the morning and had NO SMOKE at all!


Any update on consumption?
 
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