I didn't have a chance to read all the posts, but I used to carry a stun gun. It was a Nova Spirit Police Special with lithium batteries. State of the art at the time. Dogs would jump when you cracked that thing. They didn't want any part of that.
Yet ANOTHER, irresponsible pet owner!
- Thread starter antiqueshell
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Originally Posted By: andrewg
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: andrewg
A bit extreme to continue walking near that house and say that you will be carrying a gun. Not smart. You are aware of the issue yet you think it better to carry a gun than solve this another way? That's not smart at all. I think you are getting way too worked up over this to the point of bringing a firearm into it when other alternatives exist.
they have been warned now repeatedly.....They are well heeled intelligent people and know the possible consequences for repeatedly allowing a vicious dog to threaten me.
If you read my previous posts I mentioned that I would call animal control and or sue them if I am injured for every penny they have! I will carry a gun but it would only be used if my life was in immediate danger.
The bottom line this....YOU CANNOT allow a threatening animal to wander around UNCONTROLLED on public streets..PERIOD. The law specifically states this...and like I mentioned earlier...I feel sorry for the animal because it only can do what its IDIOT owners allow it to do. But that owner is essentially pointing a "loaded gun" at innocent neighbors and spinning the chamber of the pistol ..who knows which one is "loaded".
"Looking for a fight".....is when an owner INSISTS on letting their big threatening dog bother me when I am walking in peace on a public street minding my own business.
You make irresponsible decisions, you must pay. These people are NOT retarded or uneducated. They know the consequences and can suffer them.
No doubt these people are in the wrong. No doubt the dog does present somewhat of a danger. And no doubt that you have a right to walk the street without fear of being attacked. BUT......being that YOU know this animal is a danger and may possibly attack you, AND you bring up the mention of carrying a firearm the next time YOU walk by this house....well sir, you are simply not using wise judgement. What if you get no immediate help with your issue and then you decide to go for a walk right past this house knowing full well what could happen? Do you not see that you are inviting conflict that could involve something extremely serious (a firearm)? What if a stray slug hits a child or innocent bystander? It's just not worth the risk. Do any and all means of involving the authorities that you can. Get a lawyer if need be....because I can promise you that if you discharge a firearm in your community (especially knowing full well about the dog being a danger and NOT avoiding it)....you'll sure need a lawyer. Trust me....I agree with most of what you've stated. I despise rude and inconsiderate people with a passion. But you really should put away all notion of utilizing a firearm in this situation. Avoid this escalation of the conflict or you may very well come to regret it. (Just so you know, I do hold the 2nd Amendment as crucial and am a gun owner with a concealed permit...so I am not an anti-gun type).
I hope the OP of this thread takes your advice to heart because it is very good advice. If the OP starts carrying a gun and continues to walk in the same area knowing the problem with that dog is a present and real threat the OP "WILL" end up in trouble/arrested if he discharges his firearam. Even if the dog goes after him. If he kills the dog he will wind up being sued ammong other things and LOSE. The OP is chosing to continue to put hismelf in harms way and that makes self defense, as a defense, unreasonable. The OP doesn't HAVE to walk by that house the OP CHOOSES to walk by it to prove some kind of point. Self defense does not apply here.
OP - what if you end up shooting an innocent bystander with a stray bullet? Ever think of that? Be prepared to shoot the dog's owner if they see you shoot their dog too because chances are they may come after you if you do. You might get shot yourself if they have a gun as well( ever consider that ). Just totally nuts that you are taking this stance. You ARE looking for a fight and you may end up hurt or dead yourself. You are acting out of anger and frustration and you are not thinking rationally or responsibly which you need to do if carrying a firearm. You are talking about acting as irresponsible and dangerous as the dog owner's do( more so actually as you could kill or injur an innocent bystander ). You aren't talking about carrying the gun to defend yourself you are actually wanting to carry it in the hopes you can get revenge. If the local authorities heard about your plan you could lose your CCP and rightfully so.
If the OP regularly carried a gun anyway and had to shoot the dog on the very 1st time having a run in with it that is different. THAT is self defense. Knowing there is a problem and still putting yourself into harms way, having a LONG known history of confrontations with the dog and dog's owner yet continuing to go back, absolutely makes it different. It paints the OP in the light that he is specifically looking to create an incident so he can shoot the dog out of spite. Framkly I would agree with that view and it is how the OP comes across to me. The OP is spoiling to get even with and back at these people and the dog.
Quote:
they have been warned now repeatedly.....They are well heeled intelligent people and know the possible consequences for repeatedly allowing a vicious dog to threaten me.
That says it all and if that ever fell into the hands of the lawyer for those dog owner's the OP wouldn't stand a chance. It eliminates any and all reasonable self defense arguments. The OP is deliberately looking to provoke an incident so he can shoot the dog IMO but at the least it shows the OP knowingly put himself into a position of danger and thus self defense would not apply.
Make no mistake I detest irresponsible dog owners( at least one has posted in this thread claiming to be responsible but we will leave that for another day ). I have run ins all the time with aggressive dogs that have idiots for owners when taking my Lab's to an area I train them in. I have actually had to stop going to one area as too many people found it and it is over run with morons and dangerous dogs now. Unlike the OP however I am doing the smart thing and avoiding the area now vs going back knowing it will result in confrontations and possible injury. In the other area I really don't have a choice as places to train for hunting here are limited.
However, despite my dogs being completely friendly without an aggressive bone in their bodies, being well trained and under control( as best you can - a dog is an animal and even the best can stray from training ), I don't take any chances they might get attacked by another dog, jump on someone trying to say hello and hurt them, etc... I keep my dogs under control at all times; for everyone's sake. My dogs never leaves my vehicle if other dogs are present( I wait for them to leave )nor are my dogs ever off leash if other dogs are lose. If the other owner(s) won't keep their dog(s) under control I put my dogs back in the vehicle until they go or I just leave. I am not going to shoot the other dogs though because of the owner's stupidity. I just do my part to avoid the problem. I don't go looking to provoke an incident either.
You can't fix stupid but you sure do have the ability to avoid it. Don't go looking for trouble. Avoid that area with that dog and stupid owners. Don't go there packing and looking to use. That makes YOU the irresponsible one in the law's eyes as well as in the public's opinion. You won't stand a legal snowballs chance in hades if you do shoot that dog. I hope you are prepared to pay the consequences to extract your revenge? Is it really worth going to jail, being sued, and maybe even injuring or killing an innocent person not involved? Or even getting hurt or killed yourself? Leave the gun home and bring a can of pepper spray or something non lethal. Even then with your known history you will still get in trouble but at least you won't hurt anyone not involved.
NOTE - I carried a gun for a few years on the job, Have a CCP, and I hunt. I am not anti gun or anything. I am anti people doing stupid thinsg with guns that make me look bad too. I actually was accidentally shot once too and it is not fun.
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: andrewg
A bit extreme to continue walking near that house and say that you will be carrying a gun. Not smart. You are aware of the issue yet you think it better to carry a gun than solve this another way? That's not smart at all. I think you are getting way too worked up over this to the point of bringing a firearm into it when other alternatives exist.
they have been warned now repeatedly.....They are well heeled intelligent people and know the possible consequences for repeatedly allowing a vicious dog to threaten me.
If you read my previous posts I mentioned that I would call animal control and or sue them if I am injured for every penny they have! I will carry a gun but it would only be used if my life was in immediate danger.
The bottom line this....YOU CANNOT allow a threatening animal to wander around UNCONTROLLED on public streets..PERIOD. The law specifically states this...and like I mentioned earlier...I feel sorry for the animal because it only can do what its IDIOT owners allow it to do. But that owner is essentially pointing a "loaded gun" at innocent neighbors and spinning the chamber of the pistol ..who knows which one is "loaded".
"Looking for a fight".....is when an owner INSISTS on letting their big threatening dog bother me when I am walking in peace on a public street minding my own business.
You make irresponsible decisions, you must pay. These people are NOT retarded or uneducated. They know the consequences and can suffer them.
No doubt these people are in the wrong. No doubt the dog does present somewhat of a danger. And no doubt that you have a right to walk the street without fear of being attacked. BUT......being that YOU know this animal is a danger and may possibly attack you, AND you bring up the mention of carrying a firearm the next time YOU walk by this house....well sir, you are simply not using wise judgement. What if you get no immediate help with your issue and then you decide to go for a walk right past this house knowing full well what could happen? Do you not see that you are inviting conflict that could involve something extremely serious (a firearm)? What if a stray slug hits a child or innocent bystander? It's just not worth the risk. Do any and all means of involving the authorities that you can. Get a lawyer if need be....because I can promise you that if you discharge a firearm in your community (especially knowing full well about the dog being a danger and NOT avoiding it)....you'll sure need a lawyer. Trust me....I agree with most of what you've stated. I despise rude and inconsiderate people with a passion. But you really should put away all notion of utilizing a firearm in this situation. Avoid this escalation of the conflict or you may very well come to regret it. (Just so you know, I do hold the 2nd Amendment as crucial and am a gun owner with a concealed permit...so I am not an anti-gun type).
I hope the OP of this thread takes your advice to heart because it is very good advice. If the OP starts carrying a gun and continues to walk in the same area knowing the problem with that dog is a present and real threat the OP "WILL" end up in trouble/arrested if he discharges his firearam. Even if the dog goes after him. If he kills the dog he will wind up being sued ammong other things and LOSE. The OP is chosing to continue to put hismelf in harms way and that makes self defense, as a defense, unreasonable. The OP doesn't HAVE to walk by that house the OP CHOOSES to walk by it to prove some kind of point. Self defense does not apply here.
OP - what if you end up shooting an innocent bystander with a stray bullet? Ever think of that? Be prepared to shoot the dog's owner if they see you shoot their dog too because chances are they may come after you if you do. You might get shot yourself if they have a gun as well( ever consider that ). Just totally nuts that you are taking this stance. You ARE looking for a fight and you may end up hurt or dead yourself. You are acting out of anger and frustration and you are not thinking rationally or responsibly which you need to do if carrying a firearm. You are talking about acting as irresponsible and dangerous as the dog owner's do( more so actually as you could kill or injur an innocent bystander ). You aren't talking about carrying the gun to defend yourself you are actually wanting to carry it in the hopes you can get revenge. If the local authorities heard about your plan you could lose your CCP and rightfully so.
If the OP regularly carried a gun anyway and had to shoot the dog on the very 1st time having a run in with it that is different. THAT is self defense. Knowing there is a problem and still putting yourself into harms way, having a LONG known history of confrontations with the dog and dog's owner yet continuing to go back, absolutely makes it different. It paints the OP in the light that he is specifically looking to create an incident so he can shoot the dog out of spite. Framkly I would agree with that view and it is how the OP comes across to me. The OP is spoiling to get even with and back at these people and the dog.
Quote:
they have been warned now repeatedly.....They are well heeled intelligent people and know the possible consequences for repeatedly allowing a vicious dog to threaten me.
That says it all and if that ever fell into the hands of the lawyer for those dog owner's the OP wouldn't stand a chance. It eliminates any and all reasonable self defense arguments. The OP is deliberately looking to provoke an incident so he can shoot the dog IMO but at the least it shows the OP knowingly put himself into a position of danger and thus self defense would not apply.
Make no mistake I detest irresponsible dog owners( at least one has posted in this thread claiming to be responsible but we will leave that for another day ). I have run ins all the time with aggressive dogs that have idiots for owners when taking my Lab's to an area I train them in. I have actually had to stop going to one area as too many people found it and it is over run with morons and dangerous dogs now. Unlike the OP however I am doing the smart thing and avoiding the area now vs going back knowing it will result in confrontations and possible injury. In the other area I really don't have a choice as places to train for hunting here are limited.
However, despite my dogs being completely friendly without an aggressive bone in their bodies, being well trained and under control( as best you can - a dog is an animal and even the best can stray from training ), I don't take any chances they might get attacked by another dog, jump on someone trying to say hello and hurt them, etc... I keep my dogs under control at all times; for everyone's sake. My dogs never leaves my vehicle if other dogs are present( I wait for them to leave )nor are my dogs ever off leash if other dogs are lose. If the other owner(s) won't keep their dog(s) under control I put my dogs back in the vehicle until they go or I just leave. I am not going to shoot the other dogs though because of the owner's stupidity. I just do my part to avoid the problem. I don't go looking to provoke an incident either.
You can't fix stupid but you sure do have the ability to avoid it. Don't go looking for trouble. Avoid that area with that dog and stupid owners. Don't go there packing and looking to use. That makes YOU the irresponsible one in the law's eyes as well as in the public's opinion. You won't stand a legal snowballs chance in hades if you do shoot that dog. I hope you are prepared to pay the consequences to extract your revenge? Is it really worth going to jail, being sued, and maybe even injuring or killing an innocent person not involved? Or even getting hurt or killed yourself? Leave the gun home and bring a can of pepper spray or something non lethal. Even then with your known history you will still get in trouble but at least you won't hurt anyone not involved.
NOTE - I carried a gun for a few years on the job, Have a CCP, and I hunt. I am not anti gun or anything. I am anti people doing stupid thinsg with guns that make me look bad too. I actually was accidentally shot once too and it is not fun.
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NHHEMI:
You didn't read my most recent post. I stated that this idiot now was bringing his problem animal onto the street I live on, and within about 30 yards from my home. I have been walking on this street for almost 4 years now with no problem until now previous to them owning this animal I had no problem with them. This entire situation is TOTALLY of their own making.
If that idiot purposely brings the animal past me within 30 yards of my home on a street that he and his animal have never been on as far as I can recall, and lets the lead line out at maximum length so that the dog can approach me, the owner is LOOKING for trouble, any judge will see this
and absolve me of any responsibility. It is clear that once these people were warned about allowing their animal to be at large potentially endangering me and others previously, they decided to escalate the situation by this most recent act. Not to mention that the idiot wife was telling me to "call the cops"...which indicated further that they wanted to make a minor problem a major one, obvious provocation.
Luckily a neighbor that lives right near my home overheard this most recent incident and was watching, they will corroborate this if the troopers need to be called.
You may be right about what you say IF it happens in front of ONE of his TWO homes...even though that would basically prevent me from freedom of passage on TWO public streets that are within yards of my own home. Which BTW, I have been walking WITHOUT incident for almost 4 years now.
Again, I have stated that I will do everything possible to let the authorities handle it and I informed these people of that.
It was interesting to see their cowardly behavior AFTER the woman begged me to "call the cops" and I replied calmly...It won't be the local sheriff's deputy responding to your front door, it will be the state troopers, I don't bluff.. Haven't see a sign of them since that exchange which happened almost in front of my own home. I believe they are in "hiding" because they know they are TOTALLY in the wrong, and looked like complete idiots after the incident yesterday.
You didn't read my most recent post. I stated that this idiot now was bringing his problem animal onto the street I live on, and within about 30 yards from my home. I have been walking on this street for almost 4 years now with no problem until now previous to them owning this animal I had no problem with them. This entire situation is TOTALLY of their own making.
If that idiot purposely brings the animal past me within 30 yards of my home on a street that he and his animal have never been on as far as I can recall, and lets the lead line out at maximum length so that the dog can approach me, the owner is LOOKING for trouble, any judge will see this
and absolve me of any responsibility. It is clear that once these people were warned about allowing their animal to be at large potentially endangering me and others previously, they decided to escalate the situation by this most recent act. Not to mention that the idiot wife was telling me to "call the cops"...which indicated further that they wanted to make a minor problem a major one, obvious provocation.
Luckily a neighbor that lives right near my home overheard this most recent incident and was watching, they will corroborate this if the troopers need to be called.
You may be right about what you say IF it happens in front of ONE of his TWO homes...even though that would basically prevent me from freedom of passage on TWO public streets that are within yards of my own home. Which BTW, I have been walking WITHOUT incident for almost 4 years now.
Again, I have stated that I will do everything possible to let the authorities handle it and I informed these people of that.
It was interesting to see their cowardly behavior AFTER the woman begged me to "call the cops" and I replied calmly...It won't be the local sheriff's deputy responding to your front door, it will be the state troopers, I don't bluff.. Haven't see a sign of them since that exchange which happened almost in front of my own home. I believe they are in "hiding" because they know they are TOTALLY in the wrong, and looked like complete idiots after the incident yesterday.
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I have read all your posts. You seem to think everyone who disagrees with you somehow can't or doesn't read. I have read what you haver posted and what I see from you disturbs me. I would be as worried about you if I were a neighbor as I would be that dog.
Dogs unleashed or not contained by invisble fences are a nuisance.
Sadly I hit an unleashed dog running across the road the owner insisted was trained well to walk off lease. It got pretty hurt but recovered well. The lady had the gall to attempt to sue me for vet bills stating I was driving too fast so I could not stop. Progressive insurance crushed her aspirations.
The dog still walks off leash. Bad dog owners.....
Sadly I hit an unleashed dog running across the road the owner insisted was trained well to walk off lease. It got pretty hurt but recovered well. The lady had the gall to attempt to sue me for vet bills stating I was driving too fast so I could not stop. Progressive insurance crushed her aspirations.
The dog still walks off leash. Bad dog owners.....
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have read all your posts. You seem to think everyone who disagrees with you somehow can't or doesn't read. I have read what you haver posted and what I see from you disturbs me. I would be as worried about you if I were a neighbor as I would be that dog.
You choose NOT to look at the entire picture, only what you wish to.
So your reply to my previous post is what? Cower in my home and don't go outside? You obviously refuse to confront what I have posted with your own WORKABLE answer.
This is why our country is in such dire straights. Letting the unruly, obnoxious, law breaking, and bullying go unchecked will only make things worse the proof is in the pudding.
Not only at the low level of neighbors, but to the highest level of our society. These miscreants will only increase their aggressive behavior if left unchallenged.
Maybe this obnoxious neighbor has the same thought process that you do. If he is fearful of me that is just fine, perhaps it will keep him and his unruly dog from interfering with my ability to exercise on my own streets minding my own business as I have for almost four years now until he decided to create a problem the past number of months.
I have read all your posts. You seem to think everyone who disagrees with you somehow can't or doesn't read. I have read what you haver posted and what I see from you disturbs me. I would be as worried about you if I were a neighbor as I would be that dog.
You choose NOT to look at the entire picture, only what you wish to.
So your reply to my previous post is what? Cower in my home and don't go outside? You obviously refuse to confront what I have posted with your own WORKABLE answer.
This is why our country is in such dire straights. Letting the unruly, obnoxious, law breaking, and bullying go unchecked will only make things worse the proof is in the pudding.
Not only at the low level of neighbors, but to the highest level of our society. These miscreants will only increase their aggressive behavior if left unchallenged.
Maybe this obnoxious neighbor has the same thought process that you do. If he is fearful of me that is just fine, perhaps it will keep him and his unruly dog from interfering with my ability to exercise on my own streets minding my own business as I have for almost four years now until he decided to create a problem the past number of months.
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Originally Posted By: rjundi
Dogs unleashed or not contained by invisble fences are a nuisance.
Sadly I hit an unleashed dog running across the road the owner insisted was trained well to walk off lease. It got pretty hurt but recovered well. The lady had the gall to attempt to sue me for vet bills stating I was driving too fast so I could not stop. Progressive insurance crushed her aspirations.
The dog still walks off leash. Bad dog owners.....
This is more than just "bad dog owners". This is about a "socio-pathology" that has been growing in recent decades, and because good folks are not willing to push back it only will get worse.
These types only respond to tangible resistance.
Dogs unleashed or not contained by invisble fences are a nuisance.
Sadly I hit an unleashed dog running across the road the owner insisted was trained well to walk off lease. It got pretty hurt but recovered well. The lady had the gall to attempt to sue me for vet bills stating I was driving too fast so I could not stop. Progressive insurance crushed her aspirations.
The dog still walks off leash. Bad dog owners.....
This is more than just "bad dog owners". This is about a "socio-pathology" that has been growing in recent decades, and because good folks are not willing to push back it only will get worse.
These types only respond to tangible resistance.
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have read all your posts. You seem to think everyone who disagrees with you somehow can't or doesn't read. I have read what you haver posted and what I see from you disturbs me. I would be as worried about you if I were a neighbor as I would be that dog.
You choose NOT to look at the entire picture, only what you wish to.
So your reply to my previous post is what? Cower in my home and don't go outside? You obviously refuse to confront what I have posted with your own WORKABLE answer.
This is why our country is in such dire straights. Letting the unruly, obnoxious, law breaking, and bullying go unchecked will only make things worse the proof is in the pudding.
Not only at the low level of neighbors, but to the highest level of our society. These miscreants will only increase their aggressive behavior if left unchallenged.
Maybe this obnoxious neighbor has the same thought process that you do. If he is fearful of me that is just fine, perhaps it will keep him and his unruly dog from interfering with my ability to exercise on my own streets minding my own business as I have for almost four years now until he decided to create a problem the past number of months.
You really need to stop thinking because others disagree with your comments that they can't comprehend the situation. I have excellent reading comprehenion and I can actually sympathise with you on a personal experience level. What I can not condone is your talk of guns and your refusal to try and do what you can to defuse the situation. Someone has to be the bigger person.
I get it that you are angry and frustrated. However, yoiu seem to have an agenada in regards to carrying a gun that is not "self defense". You come across like you WANT to be able to shoot the dog. It is very clear and plain that is your ultimate goal despite your claims to the contrary. Your clearly are not in control emotionally and thus you are dangerous being out in public armed. I don't want you to do something stupid. When carrying a gun you need to be in control of yourself. You are not.
No, my answer is not for you to cower in your home. Where did I say that? I would not just cower either. There is a lot you can do to deal with this situation that does not involve violence though. You don't seem interested in that for some reason. You seem more interested in winning at all costs for lack of a better way to put it. The answer is not to escalate it to the point guns become involved. That is CRAZY man!
1st off you need to go to the Police and file a complaint( I believe you have at least called them - make sure a formal complaint is filed and try and geta copy of it as well ). Maybe even contact the local Humane Society if they actually have any authority in your state( it varies )and let them know about this dangerous dog. Let the proper authorities know this dog is a menace and the owners won't do anything about it. Let them know about the incident where they let the dog rush you on the leash tooo. That is step 1.
The next step, as I said, is to find a different way/place to go. You can not tell me that you have absolutely NO option to walk elsewhere. You are CHOOSING to put yourself into the position of being in constant confrontation with these people and their dog just to prove you can. You lose all moral high ground that way. It makes you as much to blame, if anything bad happens, as the dog owners.
You can holler and get indignant all you want about how for 4 years you could go where you wanted and not have any problems. Well, get over it. That changed. I lost a dog training area I have been going to since the early 90's to rude and inconsiderate dog owners that was literally less than 3 miles from my house. I now have to go 15 miles+ to a different spot and even there I run into people like that. I am for darn sure not going to lose control of myself as you have, start packing, and look for a confrontation.
It stinks and it isn't right that other people won't control their dogs but it is what it is. We are not alone in the world and other people can and will be inconsiderate, rude, obnoxious, and just plain stupid. As I said you can't fix stupid but you have the ability to avoid them. I am not going to go to my original training area, to prove something, and end up having my dog or myself get hurt. It isn't worth it. You seem to think this is worth getting firearms involved and truth be told it isn't. Just an extreme overreaction and unacceptable solution to your problem.
Get yourself some type of non-lethal defense like pepper spray to use if they come after you with the dog on the leash again( and even then WARN them 1st to stay back at least 2-3 times before using it ). Whatever you do though you need to find a different place to go for your walks. Go somewhere else or just go a different direction but stop going near their yard. Period and end of story. If you keep going by their yard and this situation keeps getting worse it is just as much on you as it is them and fankly more on you.
Underatand me now, I am not defending these people IN ANY WAY! However, you are not fully in the right either. You are absolutely letting your emotions dictate your actions and you are escalating this beyond what it needs to be. You could end up seriously hurting or even killing an innocent person with that gun. You need to relax, take a breath, and figure out a different way to handle it. Carrying a gun and continuing to put yourself into that dangerous situation where you will have to use it is not the right way to handle it. Not today and not at any time in the past.
Believe it or not I am trying to help you here. I don't defend those morons with the dog but you are not acting in a defensible manner either. Forget the gun and find a different place to take your walk. Forget about the past 4 years and what you think you should be able to do. That changed and now you can't. As said it stinks but get over it before you do soemthing you will regret.
Good luck.
Originally Posted By: NHHEMI
I have read all your posts. You seem to think everyone who disagrees with you somehow can't or doesn't read. I have read what you haver posted and what I see from you disturbs me. I would be as worried about you if I were a neighbor as I would be that dog.
You choose NOT to look at the entire picture, only what you wish to.
So your reply to my previous post is what? Cower in my home and don't go outside? You obviously refuse to confront what I have posted with your own WORKABLE answer.
This is why our country is in such dire straights. Letting the unruly, obnoxious, law breaking, and bullying go unchecked will only make things worse the proof is in the pudding.
Not only at the low level of neighbors, but to the highest level of our society. These miscreants will only increase their aggressive behavior if left unchallenged.
Maybe this obnoxious neighbor has the same thought process that you do. If he is fearful of me that is just fine, perhaps it will keep him and his unruly dog from interfering with my ability to exercise on my own streets minding my own business as I have for almost four years now until he decided to create a problem the past number of months.
You really need to stop thinking because others disagree with your comments that they can't comprehend the situation. I have excellent reading comprehenion and I can actually sympathise with you on a personal experience level. What I can not condone is your talk of guns and your refusal to try and do what you can to defuse the situation. Someone has to be the bigger person.
I get it that you are angry and frustrated. However, yoiu seem to have an agenada in regards to carrying a gun that is not "self defense". You come across like you WANT to be able to shoot the dog. It is very clear and plain that is your ultimate goal despite your claims to the contrary. Your clearly are not in control emotionally and thus you are dangerous being out in public armed. I don't want you to do something stupid. When carrying a gun you need to be in control of yourself. You are not.
No, my answer is not for you to cower in your home. Where did I say that? I would not just cower either. There is a lot you can do to deal with this situation that does not involve violence though. You don't seem interested in that for some reason. You seem more interested in winning at all costs for lack of a better way to put it. The answer is not to escalate it to the point guns become involved. That is CRAZY man!
1st off you need to go to the Police and file a complaint( I believe you have at least called them - make sure a formal complaint is filed and try and geta copy of it as well ). Maybe even contact the local Humane Society if they actually have any authority in your state( it varies )and let them know about this dangerous dog. Let the proper authorities know this dog is a menace and the owners won't do anything about it. Let them know about the incident where they let the dog rush you on the leash tooo. That is step 1.
The next step, as I said, is to find a different way/place to go. You can not tell me that you have absolutely NO option to walk elsewhere. You are CHOOSING to put yourself into the position of being in constant confrontation with these people and their dog just to prove you can. You lose all moral high ground that way. It makes you as much to blame, if anything bad happens, as the dog owners.
You can holler and get indignant all you want about how for 4 years you could go where you wanted and not have any problems. Well, get over it. That changed. I lost a dog training area I have been going to since the early 90's to rude and inconsiderate dog owners that was literally less than 3 miles from my house. I now have to go 15 miles+ to a different spot and even there I run into people like that. I am for darn sure not going to lose control of myself as you have, start packing, and look for a confrontation.
It stinks and it isn't right that other people won't control their dogs but it is what it is. We are not alone in the world and other people can and will be inconsiderate, rude, obnoxious, and just plain stupid. As I said you can't fix stupid but you have the ability to avoid them. I am not going to go to my original training area, to prove something, and end up having my dog or myself get hurt. It isn't worth it. You seem to think this is worth getting firearms involved and truth be told it isn't. Just an extreme overreaction and unacceptable solution to your problem.
Get yourself some type of non-lethal defense like pepper spray to use if they come after you with the dog on the leash again( and even then WARN them 1st to stay back at least 2-3 times before using it ). Whatever you do though you need to find a different place to go for your walks. Go somewhere else or just go a different direction but stop going near their yard. Period and end of story. If you keep going by their yard and this situation keeps getting worse it is just as much on you as it is them and fankly more on you.
Underatand me now, I am not defending these people IN ANY WAY! However, you are not fully in the right either. You are absolutely letting your emotions dictate your actions and you are escalating this beyond what it needs to be. You could end up seriously hurting or even killing an innocent person with that gun. You need to relax, take a breath, and figure out a different way to handle it. Carrying a gun and continuing to put yourself into that dangerous situation where you will have to use it is not the right way to handle it. Not today and not at any time in the past.
Believe it or not I am trying to help you here. I don't defend those morons with the dog but you are not acting in a defensible manner either. Forget the gun and find a different place to take your walk. Forget about the past 4 years and what you think you should be able to do. That changed and now you can't. As said it stinks but get over it before you do soemthing you will regret.
Good luck.
If it were me in this situation, I would walk where I usually do but carry a walking staff of some kind, golf club or a simple base ball bat with a ball and glove. I would also wear a hero video camera. If the dog continues to make aggressive advances, take care of it. A gun is frankly massive overkill unless this is owner trained breed that only stops attacking when its heart ceases.
Unless you have witnesses it will just be someone with a gun against high heeled people who undoubtedly have connections. If something goes down you at least have footage to support. Other than that you would be hooped for many reasons already mentioned.
Unless you have witnesses it will just be someone with a gun against high heeled people who undoubtedly have connections. If something goes down you at least have footage to support. Other than that you would be hooped for many reasons already mentioned.
You must not have "comprehended" from my previous posts that the owners brought the dog down my own street (which they have NEVER done before), at about 30 yards from my home, the owner proceeded to let the leash out as long as possible to let the dog come over to the other side of the street that I was walking along with the dog being a hands length from me. Then when I politely but firmly stated "please control your dog" the owner started raging, name calling and attempting to provoke an incident. The wife (which had her well behaved dog on a normal length leash ) chimes in and says for me to call the cops. The entire time I was calm, civil and legally correct when responding to their provocation. It appeared to me and the observant neighbor on my street that they were trying to get me to "take the bait" so they could either let the dog attack me, or call the police and claim I was the threat.
I have NOT called the authorities YET because I don't want to have an escalation like that if possible. To clarify, I have been using these streets to exercise DAILY (5 days a week) for the past four years without an incident until now.
I certainly will NOT be forced off my own street.
This is not New Hampshire things work a bit differently here, even when it comes to the legal issues.
You keep harping on the "gun" issue. You are NOT comprehending well, because I have reiterated a number of times that only if I feel my life is in extreme danger (of death) will I use it to defend myself, otherwise it will be the authorities handling things. I can promise you that it won't be myself that makes a move that will cause me to be incarcerated or sued, it will be the dog's owner. He seems to believe that he is "entitled" act as he pleases and eventually he's going to do something that gets him arrested and charged. His choice. Even his immediate neighbors are disgusted with him and his animal, but they are intimidated because of their proximity to him.(fearful of retaliation?)
These people are NOT stupid, they believe they are entitled, and crafty too. Eventually it will catch up with them. They may have connections in this county, but they DO NOT have them with the state authorities it's obvious from their reaction when informed that it won't be the sheriff deputies showing up, but the state troopers.
You're speaking of designated areas that are intended for dogs and they are a number of miles away from where you live, my situation is in the immediate vicinity of my home.
I am the guy taking the high road, but I will not be pushed off the road entirely. LOL
The bigger guy has been kind enough to give several polite warnings, and not jumped to call the state troopers or the animal control people.
It's up to him to behave himself, (follow the law) or suffer the consequences.
Good suggestion about the video camera. I will do this.
I have NOT called the authorities YET because I don't want to have an escalation like that if possible. To clarify, I have been using these streets to exercise DAILY (5 days a week) for the past four years without an incident until now.
I certainly will NOT be forced off my own street.
This is not New Hampshire things work a bit differently here, even when it comes to the legal issues.
You keep harping on the "gun" issue. You are NOT comprehending well, because I have reiterated a number of times that only if I feel my life is in extreme danger (of death) will I use it to defend myself, otherwise it will be the authorities handling things. I can promise you that it won't be myself that makes a move that will cause me to be incarcerated or sued, it will be the dog's owner. He seems to believe that he is "entitled" act as he pleases and eventually he's going to do something that gets him arrested and charged. His choice. Even his immediate neighbors are disgusted with him and his animal, but they are intimidated because of their proximity to him.(fearful of retaliation?)
These people are NOT stupid, they believe they are entitled, and crafty too. Eventually it will catch up with them. They may have connections in this county, but they DO NOT have them with the state authorities it's obvious from their reaction when informed that it won't be the sheriff deputies showing up, but the state troopers.
You're speaking of designated areas that are intended for dogs and they are a number of miles away from where you live, my situation is in the immediate vicinity of my home.
I am the guy taking the high road, but I will not be pushed off the road entirely. LOL
The bigger guy has been kind enough to give several polite warnings, and not jumped to call the state troopers or the animal control people.
It's up to him to behave himself, (follow the law) or suffer the consequences.
Good suggestion about the video camera. I will do this.
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I think you should just call animal control and give them the entire story and ask them if they could at least speak to the people. Sometimes that's all it takes and the intimidating behavior will cease. You pay taxes for issues like this to be handled by the authorities BEFORE it gets out of hand. And, in my opinion, it looks to be escalating. If anything does happen at least the record will show that you tried to get help.
We have seen your previous posts about you walking past their house, and the dog coming towards you while loose, and the most recent posts about them walking their dog on a leash, and it coming close to you, on your property.
You have multiple choices:
1 - Don't do anything, man up, and keep jogging right past their house.
If the dog actually does attack you, you call the cops, troopers, sheriff, whomever you want. The dog gets impounded and destroyed, and you get to sue the pants of the 2 house couple.
2 - Choose a different route to go jogging.
The great thing about being a human is that you can alter your patterns.
It doesn't bother you to go a different way.
3 - Carry a weapon, and keep jogging past their house.
If the dog attacks you, you get to injure/kill it, possibly get attacked by the home owners, and injured/killed yourself. If you survive, you will most likely be in a huge legal battle, that it sounds like they have more resources to wind up ruining you financially.
4 - When they walk your dog past your house, and it trespasses on your property, shoot it with your garden hose. If it's a water loving dog, like a Labrador or a New Foundland, you've got a new friend for life. Throw a ball, and he will move in with you when they aren't watching. If it isn't a water loving dog, it will get off of your property. If the owners attempt to say something, inform them that you will soak them too if they trespass on your property.
I would recommend one of the non-violent paths, personally.
If you want to be really extreme, get yourself a huge Rottweiler.
Go jogging with it everyday on a harness and lead.
If that other dog charges after you, your Rottweiler will take care of business.
Carry a GoPro camera so that you can show the authorities that you and your dog were attacked by a loose, aggressive dog, and your dog was protecting your life.
I don't really like that idea, because their dog gets injured, but then you won't ever have to worry about their dog ever again.
BC.
You have multiple choices:
1 - Don't do anything, man up, and keep jogging right past their house.
If the dog actually does attack you, you call the cops, troopers, sheriff, whomever you want. The dog gets impounded and destroyed, and you get to sue the pants of the 2 house couple.
2 - Choose a different route to go jogging.
The great thing about being a human is that you can alter your patterns.
It doesn't bother you to go a different way.
3 - Carry a weapon, and keep jogging past their house.
If the dog attacks you, you get to injure/kill it, possibly get attacked by the home owners, and injured/killed yourself. If you survive, you will most likely be in a huge legal battle, that it sounds like they have more resources to wind up ruining you financially.
4 - When they walk your dog past your house, and it trespasses on your property, shoot it with your garden hose. If it's a water loving dog, like a Labrador or a New Foundland, you've got a new friend for life. Throw a ball, and he will move in with you when they aren't watching. If it isn't a water loving dog, it will get off of your property. If the owners attempt to say something, inform them that you will soak them too if they trespass on your property.
I would recommend one of the non-violent paths, personally.
If you want to be really extreme, get yourself a huge Rottweiler.
Go jogging with it everyday on a harness and lead.
If that other dog charges after you, your Rottweiler will take care of business.
Carry a GoPro camera so that you can show the authorities that you and your dog were attacked by a loose, aggressive dog, and your dog was protecting your life.
I don't really like that idea, because their dog gets injured, but then you won't ever have to worry about their dog ever again.
BC.
I'll take number 1 with a little bit of 3 as the last resort. LOL
That is EXACTLY what I intend on doing.
With "pathos" like this you need to show that you will not be intimidated for ONE SECOND. Immediately the same day I passed by his second home as I would normally do following the incident near my home, he was out nailing chicken wire next to his pasture gate and I looked right at him (neutral expression on my face).
I already informed the mother of the owner that I will sue them if I am injured.
The other wealthy neighbors that live next to the subject in question are friendly with me too. I enjoy chatting with them from time to time as I pass by. It's pretty sad that things have to end up this way, there is always one idiot that spoils a good thing.
One additional thing....I really do like animals and especially dogs of all kinds. This is the ONLY one I have ever had a problem with in all those years....heck we have a couple on the other end of my jog that has a domesticated doe (was left as an orphan by a dead mother, and amazingly a wild youth doe has joined her in their pasture. I see them every day just about and the domesticated doe will act like a dog. She is glad to see me and loves her head to be scratched....Lots of decent people here.
That is EXACTLY what I intend on doing.
With "pathos" like this you need to show that you will not be intimidated for ONE SECOND. Immediately the same day I passed by his second home as I would normally do following the incident near my home, he was out nailing chicken wire next to his pasture gate and I looked right at him (neutral expression on my face).
I already informed the mother of the owner that I will sue them if I am injured.
The other wealthy neighbors that live next to the subject in question are friendly with me too. I enjoy chatting with them from time to time as I pass by. It's pretty sad that things have to end up this way, there is always one idiot that spoils a good thing.
One additional thing....I really do like animals and especially dogs of all kinds. This is the ONLY one I have ever had a problem with in all those years....heck we have a couple on the other end of my jog that has a domesticated doe (was left as an orphan by a dead mother, and amazingly a wild youth doe has joined her in their pasture. I see them every day just about and the domesticated doe will act like a dog. She is glad to see me and loves her head to be scratched....Lots of decent people here.
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get a head camera. Just like the Russian drivers
Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
I'll take number 1 with a little bit of 3 as the last resort. LOL
That is EXACTLY what I intend on doing.
As I have said you are intentionally placing yourself in harms way in the hopes of provoking an inncident so you can shoot the dog and to prove you are a tough guy and that no one is going to tell you what you can and can't do. YOU have no credibility and you are way out of control. Stop whining and playing the victim. YOU are as irresponsible as the dog owners. You have plenty of other options but you refuse to take them to prove some kind of idiotic macho point. LAME! If you end up being bitten, sued or arrested, or god forbid injur or kill an innocent person, it is your own fault.
Wow! Glad you are not my neighbor.
I'll take number 1 with a little bit of 3 as the last resort. LOL
That is EXACTLY what I intend on doing.
As I have said you are intentionally placing yourself in harms way in the hopes of provoking an inncident so you can shoot the dog and to prove you are a tough guy and that no one is going to tell you what you can and can't do. YOU have no credibility and you are way out of control. Stop whining and playing the victim. YOU are as irresponsible as the dog owners. You have plenty of other options but you refuse to take them to prove some kind of idiotic macho point. LAME! If you end up being bitten, sued or arrested, or god forbid injur or kill an innocent person, it is your own fault.
Wow! Glad you are not my neighbor.
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
You must not have "comprehended" from my previous posts that the owners brought the dog down my own street (which they have NEVER done before), at about 30 yards from my home, the owner proceeded to let the leash out as long as possible to let the dog come over to the other side of the street that I was walking along with the dog being a hands length from me. Then when I politely but firmly stated "please control your dog" the owner started raging, name calling and attempting to provoke an incident. The wife (which had her well behaved dog on a normal length leash ) chimes in and says for me to call the cops. The entire time I was calm, civil and legally correct when responding to their provocation. It appeared to me and the observant neighbor on my street that they were trying to get me to "take the bait" so they could either let the dog attack me, or call the police and claim I was the threat.
I have NOT called the authorities YET because I don't want to have an escalation like that if possible. To clarify, I have been using these streets to exercise DAILY (5 days a week) for the past four years without an incident until now.
I certainly will NOT be forced off my own street.
This is not New Hampshire things work a bit differently here, even when it comes to the legal issues.
You keep harping on the "gun" issue. You are NOT comprehending well, because I have reiterated a number of times that only if I feel my life is in extreme danger (of death) will I use it to defend myself, otherwise it will be the authorities handling things. I can promise you that it won't be myself that makes a move that will cause me to be incarcerated or sued, it will be the dog's owner. He seems to believe that he is "entitled" act as he pleases and eventually he's going to do something that gets him arrested and charged. His choice. Even his immediate neighbors are disgusted with him and his animal, but they are intimidated because of their proximity to him.(fearful of retaliation?)
These people are NOT stupid, they believe they are entitled, and crafty too. Eventually it will catch up with them. They may have connections in this county, but they DO NOT have them with the state authorities it's obvious from their reaction when informed that it won't be the sheriff deputies showing up, but the state troopers.
You're speaking of designated areas that are intended for dogs and they are a number of miles away from where you live, my situation is in the immediate vicinity of my home.
I am the guy taking the high road, but I will not be pushed off the road entirely. LOL
The bigger guy has been kind enough to give several polite warnings, and not jumped to call the state troopers or the animal control people.
It's up to him to behave himself, (follow the law) or suffer the consequences.
Good suggestion about the video camera. I will do this.
I get it that they brought the dog on to your street. I didn't defend them doing this. What I am trying to get you to realize is you do NOT have to go on THEIR street. AVOID it and the problem goes away. If you insist on going on their street just because you used to you are just escalating the situation and asking for more trouble.
Doesn't matter if that happens in NH, IL, TX, CA, or the freaking moon. YOU are pushing things and just making it worse and worse. You are no where near the high ground. STAY AWAY from their house and street and no more problem. Knowing there is an immanent threat present, and continuing to go there when you do not HAVE TO, eliminates any and all possibility of using self defense if you shoot that dog. That is true legally regardless of state.
Talk with a lawyer if you doubt me. Tell him/her that you know there is a real danger to you on that street, and while you could go another way you insist on still going there, and that you want to use a gun to defend yourself if the dog attacks. You won't be told you are justified trust me. You will be told you will end up arrested and sued.
If you go there knowing before hand that there is a problem, and you go there packing a gun, then you go there planning to use it. Period. Please don't insult my intelligence.
I am not speaking of areas designated for dogs. I am speaking of areas open to general public use just like a regular public street is. Just so happens these areas are used for dog training among many other activities( hiking, biking, sports, hunting, fishing, etc... ). It is not different than your situation really. The reason being your confrontations are happening on a street you go to not live on( other than the 1 time they came to you ). Doesn't matter if I go 3 miles and you go one or two streets over the point is I don't "have" to go there and neither do you.
If you haven't already called the police than you are nuts. All this bluster and carrying on and you haven't done ONE useful thing to try and defuse this situation. All you apprantly have done is argue with the dog owners and tell them you will sue them. Call the darn cops, stop going to that area, and get on with your life.
Unbelievable!
I will get out of your thread now because you don't want to hear resonable solutions. You want approval to do something stuipid and illegal.
You must not have "comprehended" from my previous posts that the owners brought the dog down my own street (which they have NEVER done before), at about 30 yards from my home, the owner proceeded to let the leash out as long as possible to let the dog come over to the other side of the street that I was walking along with the dog being a hands length from me. Then when I politely but firmly stated "please control your dog" the owner started raging, name calling and attempting to provoke an incident. The wife (which had her well behaved dog on a normal length leash ) chimes in and says for me to call the cops. The entire time I was calm, civil and legally correct when responding to their provocation. It appeared to me and the observant neighbor on my street that they were trying to get me to "take the bait" so they could either let the dog attack me, or call the police and claim I was the threat.
I have NOT called the authorities YET because I don't want to have an escalation like that if possible. To clarify, I have been using these streets to exercise DAILY (5 days a week) for the past four years without an incident until now.
I certainly will NOT be forced off my own street.
This is not New Hampshire things work a bit differently here, even when it comes to the legal issues.
You keep harping on the "gun" issue. You are NOT comprehending well, because I have reiterated a number of times that only if I feel my life is in extreme danger (of death) will I use it to defend myself, otherwise it will be the authorities handling things. I can promise you that it won't be myself that makes a move that will cause me to be incarcerated or sued, it will be the dog's owner. He seems to believe that he is "entitled" act as he pleases and eventually he's going to do something that gets him arrested and charged. His choice. Even his immediate neighbors are disgusted with him and his animal, but they are intimidated because of their proximity to him.(fearful of retaliation?)
These people are NOT stupid, they believe they are entitled, and crafty too. Eventually it will catch up with them. They may have connections in this county, but they DO NOT have them with the state authorities it's obvious from their reaction when informed that it won't be the sheriff deputies showing up, but the state troopers.
You're speaking of designated areas that are intended for dogs and they are a number of miles away from where you live, my situation is in the immediate vicinity of my home.
I am the guy taking the high road, but I will not be pushed off the road entirely. LOL
The bigger guy has been kind enough to give several polite warnings, and not jumped to call the state troopers or the animal control people.
It's up to him to behave himself, (follow the law) or suffer the consequences.
Good suggestion about the video camera. I will do this.
I get it that they brought the dog on to your street. I didn't defend them doing this. What I am trying to get you to realize is you do NOT have to go on THEIR street. AVOID it and the problem goes away. If you insist on going on their street just because you used to you are just escalating the situation and asking for more trouble.
Doesn't matter if that happens in NH, IL, TX, CA, or the freaking moon. YOU are pushing things and just making it worse and worse. You are no where near the high ground. STAY AWAY from their house and street and no more problem. Knowing there is an immanent threat present, and continuing to go there when you do not HAVE TO, eliminates any and all possibility of using self defense if you shoot that dog. That is true legally regardless of state.
Talk with a lawyer if you doubt me. Tell him/her that you know there is a real danger to you on that street, and while you could go another way you insist on still going there, and that you want to use a gun to defend yourself if the dog attacks. You won't be told you are justified trust me. You will be told you will end up arrested and sued.
If you go there knowing before hand that there is a problem, and you go there packing a gun, then you go there planning to use it. Period. Please don't insult my intelligence.
I am not speaking of areas designated for dogs. I am speaking of areas open to general public use just like a regular public street is. Just so happens these areas are used for dog training among many other activities( hiking, biking, sports, hunting, fishing, etc... ). It is not different than your situation really. The reason being your confrontations are happening on a street you go to not live on( other than the 1 time they came to you ). Doesn't matter if I go 3 miles and you go one or two streets over the point is I don't "have" to go there and neither do you.
If you haven't already called the police than you are nuts. All this bluster and carrying on and you haven't done ONE useful thing to try and defuse this situation. All you apprantly have done is argue with the dog owners and tell them you will sue them. Call the darn cops, stop going to that area, and get on with your life.
Unbelievable!
I will get out of your thread now because you don't want to hear resonable solutions. You want approval to do something stuipid and illegal.
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Absolutely simple gifts. That is what will happen. I wanted to give this "neighbor" one more chance to do the right thing.
@NHHEMI:
Again you didn't comprehend what I posted in many numerous threads previously.
The only one blustering going on here where the problem is, is the obnoxious, thug of a neighbor.
I really hope that since this idiot was given a "final warning" in front of my own home with a reliable neutral witness seeing his threatening behavior that he "understood" and will disappear back into his hole. Considering the reaction he had that day I believe there will be no more issues, period. The guy may be a dope, but I doubt he wants to go to jail or lose his property.
The gun would ONLY be used if I am in fear of my life. Which I believe is unlikely, but never hurts to be prepared.
IF the dog bites me, I'll get it on camera and sue the pants off the owner.
As Judge Judy would say...."You CAN'T let your animal run loose, it must be under your control at ALL times!". It does not matter where it is!
I do NOT have to "avoid" using the street I live on or using the streets near me. The streets do NOT belong to him and I do NOT have to accommodate his IRRESPONSIBLE, RECKLESS, and endangering actions.
Sorry but you are wrong, legally, and technically.
You remind me of the dog owning defendants I see on so many court shows where it is NEVER their fault, or responsibility when it comes to THEIR ILLEGAL behavior.... indeed it is the victims (plaintiff's) responsibility to "accommodate" their illegal, and reckless behavior.
And who loses in the end? The defendant.
@NHHEMI:
Again you didn't comprehend what I posted in many numerous threads previously.
The only one blustering going on here where the problem is, is the obnoxious, thug of a neighbor.
I really hope that since this idiot was given a "final warning" in front of my own home with a reliable neutral witness seeing his threatening behavior that he "understood" and will disappear back into his hole. Considering the reaction he had that day I believe there will be no more issues, period. The guy may be a dope, but I doubt he wants to go to jail or lose his property.
The gun would ONLY be used if I am in fear of my life. Which I believe is unlikely, but never hurts to be prepared.
IF the dog bites me, I'll get it on camera and sue the pants off the owner.
As Judge Judy would say...."You CAN'T let your animal run loose, it must be under your control at ALL times!". It does not matter where it is!
I do NOT have to "avoid" using the street I live on or using the streets near me. The streets do NOT belong to him and I do NOT have to accommodate his IRRESPONSIBLE, RECKLESS, and endangering actions.
Sorry but you are wrong, legally, and technically.
You remind me of the dog owning defendants I see on so many court shows where it is NEVER their fault, or responsibility when it comes to THEIR ILLEGAL behavior.... indeed it is the victims (plaintiff's) responsibility to "accommodate" their illegal, and reckless behavior.
And who loses in the end? The defendant.
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Originally Posted By: antiqueshell
Absolutely simple gifts. That is what will happen. I wanted to give this "neighbor" one more chance to do the right thing.
@NHHEMI:
Again you didn't comprehend what I posted in many numerous threads previously.
The only one blustering going on here where the problem is, is the obnoxious, thug of a neighbor.
I really hope that since this idiot was given a "final warning" in front of my own home with a reliable neutral witness seeing his threatening behavior that he "understood" and will disappear back into his hole. Considering the reaction he had that day I believe there will be no more issues, period. The guy may be a dope, but I doubt he wants to go to jail or lose his property.
The gun would ONLY be used if I am in fear of my life. Which I believe is unlikely, but never hurts to be prepared.
IF the dog bites me, I'll get it on camera and sue the pants off the owner.
As Judge Judy would say...."You CAN'T let your animal run loose, it must be under your control at ALL times!". It does not matter where it is!
I do NOT have to "avoid" using the street I live on or using the streets near me. The streets do NOT belong to him and I do NOT have to accommodate his IRRESPONSIBLE, RECKLESS, and endangering actions.
Sorry but you are wrong, legally, and technically.
You remind me of the dog owning defendants I see on so many court shows where it is NEVER their fault, or responsibility when it comes to THEIR ILLEGAL behavior.... indeed it is the victims (plaintiff's) responsibility to "accommodate" their illegal, and reckless behavior.
And who loses in the end? The defendant.
Again with the failed to comprehend bull hooey. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they don't understand what you have said. It might just mean they disagree.
Do not group me in with irresponsible pet owners. I have my dogs under control at all times. I have not once defended those dog owners. I have called you out on your reckless behavior.
Never said they owned the street. Just pointed out that you do not have to go there. How does that make me the irresponsible and reckless one or imply I am siding with the dog owners? It is your choice to keep going to their street( the one they live on - not implying ownership ). You have options to avoid these people and their dog and you refuse to take them. Yes, I know they came on your street and let the dog run at you on the leash - call the darn Police and report it! That is how a reasonable adult handles that.
Again, I advise you to consult a lawyer before you start packing and continuing to go there to provoke an incident. Make sure you have a CCP as well or you really are in trouble. Prior knowledge you may be in imminent physical harm and/or a life threatening situation, and then continuing to put yourself into that situation day in and day out when you do not HAVE TO do so, negates any and all chances at using self defense.
You haven't even filed a complaint with the Police. You have no legal or moral ground to stand on here. NONE. You have a right to be upset over the situation but your way of dealing with it flat out stinks.
Read this forum post. It will give you some good pointers and it stresses a lot of what I have tried to. There is a reasonable man standard, the state of mind, among other things. It is not reasonable to continue to put yourself into a dangerous situation when you do not have to. It is not reasonable to not call the Police and report it. Carrying a gun and continuing to go to that area when you do not HAVE TO, knowing before hand it places you in imminent danger, with a gun shows your state of mind( i.e. looking for a fight ).
No one on this forum, including me, is siding with those dog owners. They are MORONS! However, you are not handling it right either and what you propose is dangerous, reckless, and will end up making YOU the criminal.
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3617
Absolutely simple gifts. That is what will happen. I wanted to give this "neighbor" one more chance to do the right thing.
@NHHEMI:
Again you didn't comprehend what I posted in many numerous threads previously.
The only one blustering going on here where the problem is, is the obnoxious, thug of a neighbor.
I really hope that since this idiot was given a "final warning" in front of my own home with a reliable neutral witness seeing his threatening behavior that he "understood" and will disappear back into his hole. Considering the reaction he had that day I believe there will be no more issues, period. The guy may be a dope, but I doubt he wants to go to jail or lose his property.
The gun would ONLY be used if I am in fear of my life. Which I believe is unlikely, but never hurts to be prepared.
IF the dog bites me, I'll get it on camera and sue the pants off the owner.
As Judge Judy would say...."You CAN'T let your animal run loose, it must be under your control at ALL times!". It does not matter where it is!
I do NOT have to "avoid" using the street I live on or using the streets near me. The streets do NOT belong to him and I do NOT have to accommodate his IRRESPONSIBLE, RECKLESS, and endangering actions.
Sorry but you are wrong, legally, and technically.
You remind me of the dog owning defendants I see on so many court shows where it is NEVER their fault, or responsibility when it comes to THEIR ILLEGAL behavior.... indeed it is the victims (plaintiff's) responsibility to "accommodate" their illegal, and reckless behavior.
And who loses in the end? The defendant.
Again with the failed to comprehend bull hooey. Just because someone disagrees with you does not mean they don't understand what you have said. It might just mean they disagree.
Do not group me in with irresponsible pet owners. I have my dogs under control at all times. I have not once defended those dog owners. I have called you out on your reckless behavior.
Never said they owned the street. Just pointed out that you do not have to go there. How does that make me the irresponsible and reckless one or imply I am siding with the dog owners? It is your choice to keep going to their street( the one they live on - not implying ownership ). You have options to avoid these people and their dog and you refuse to take them. Yes, I know they came on your street and let the dog run at you on the leash - call the darn Police and report it! That is how a reasonable adult handles that.
Again, I advise you to consult a lawyer before you start packing and continuing to go there to provoke an incident. Make sure you have a CCP as well or you really are in trouble. Prior knowledge you may be in imminent physical harm and/or a life threatening situation, and then continuing to put yourself into that situation day in and day out when you do not HAVE TO do so, negates any and all chances at using self defense.
You haven't even filed a complaint with the Police. You have no legal or moral ground to stand on here. NONE. You have a right to be upset over the situation but your way of dealing with it flat out stinks.
Read this forum post. It will give you some good pointers and it stresses a lot of what I have tried to. There is a reasonable man standard, the state of mind, among other things. It is not reasonable to continue to put yourself into a dangerous situation when you do not have to. It is not reasonable to not call the Police and report it. Carrying a gun and continuing to go to that area when you do not HAVE TO, knowing before hand it places you in imminent danger, with a gun shows your state of mind( i.e. looking for a fight ).
No one on this forum, including me, is siding with those dog owners. They are MORONS! However, you are not handling it right either and what you propose is dangerous, reckless, and will end up making YOU the criminal.
http://illinoiscarry.com/forum/index.php?showtopic=3617
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I'm not a lawyer, but if OP decides to use the fire arm and somebody gets hurt, how hard would it be to find this thread if police seize his computer? Even without the computer I bet that a good lawyer would try to find of what websites OP was accessing. Given that these days most people look for answers on the internet first, it probably is a standard practice. I would think OP would be done for if that happened.
I think the best idea would be to get this thread deleted by mods and contact authorities about the uncontrolled dog.
I think the best idea would be to get this thread deleted by mods and contact authorities about the uncontrolled dog.
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