Would you consider Valvoline Restore and Protect in your Euro car?

[altaylar]

First it’s shearing, not “sheering”. But after that I’m only asking you about your statement where you said the VRP product would “sheer much faster”. Why would you think that? It would have to be related to the amount or type of VM used in the product since oil itself doesn’t shear. I wanted to know why you thought VRP itself would be more prone to mechanical shear.

You could have a monograde SAE 40 oil with a fairly large HT/HS that isn’t going to mechanically shear, due to the absence of any VM. Yes the HT/HS value is measured under rotation and shear forces but that’s not the same as an oil “shearing” due to VM cleaving.

Thanks for correcting my typo, i keep doing that all the time. So I understand that you agree that that to make this oil euro spec, Valvoline would have to increase it's shear resistance. Yet you are also arguing that it would not slow down oil get sheared down. Also i see that you are really sure that nothing but VM effects sheer stability of an oil. I dont think I am the person who could be helpful here

 

[kschachn]

Thanks for correcting my typo, i keep doing that all the time. So I understand that you agree that that to make this oil euro spec, Valvoline would have to increase it's shear resistance. Yet you are also arguing that it would not slow down oil get sheared down. Also i see that you are really sure that nothing but VM effects sheer stability of an oil. I dont think I am the person who could be helpful here

No I don't. The shear heating in the bearing is nothing like the shear forces that can cleave a polymer molecule. Most engines do not have issues with mechanical shear of the VM. You're conflating two different uses of the word shear and two different outcomes.

Monograde oils do not mechanically shear as the molecules are far too small, but they do heat in the bearing. Again two different mechanisms and two different outcomes.

I'm not sure if Valvoline would have to increase the shear resistance of their oil to meet any specific European approval for stay-in-grade performance. Would they have to increase the HT/HS? Maybe, depending on which approval you're referring to. It would have sufficient HT/HS to meet some approval requirements. But obtaining an approval is more than just this performance parameter.

I'm not sure what your objective is in this thread but you're not clear in how you're conflating permanent viscosity loss due to polymer cleaving and meeting a specific HT/HS requirement.

 

[altaylar]

No I don't. The shear heating in the bearing is nothing like the shear forces that can cleave a polymer molecule. Most engines do not have issues with mechanical shear of the VM. You're conflating two different uses of the word shear and two different outcomes.

Monograde oils do not mechanically shear as the molecules are far too small, but they do heat in the bearing. Again two different mechanisms and two different outcomes.

I'm not sure if Valvoline would have to increase the shear resistance of their oil to meet any specific European approval for stay-in-grade performance. Would they have to increase the HT/HS? Maybe, depending on which approval you're referring to. It would have sufficient HT/HS to meet some approval requirements. But obtaining an approval is more than just this performance parameter.

I'm not sure what your objective is in this thread but you're not clear in how you're conflating permanent viscosity loss due to polymer cleaving and meeting a specific HT/HS requirement.

Monograde oils do not shear? You are really surprising me. I have seen your comments on a couple of other threads where it seemed like you were trying to pick a fight with new members. I will just assume I am the lucky one today and I will let it go. Because I honestly believe you are more knowledgeable then you seem to me at the moment sir.

 

[kschachn]

Monograde oils do not shear? You are really surprising me. I have seen your comments on a couple of other threads where it seemed like you were trying to pick a fight with new members. I will just assume I am the lucky one today and I will let it go. Because I honestly believe you are more knowledgeable then you seem to me at the moment sir.

Correct.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

I would not mind using it, but I would also keep my oil change interval significantly shorter than manufacturer`s suggestion. The first thing comes to mind with euro vs non euro oils is the HTHS and detergency. VRP will probably sheer much faster, and be less resistant to high temperature around the Turbo. So maybe I would do a 3K mile interval? So I would treat VRP almost like a cleaning additive rather than an engine oil replacement. In just 10-12k miles you would be done with all 4 cycles

HTHS isn't a problem because almost all Euro cars today are running on 20 grades or lower. They're also long drain oils so VRP in 30 grade at 5k miles should be no problem.

 

[KnappAttak]

Castrol 5W40 was always mediocre oil. In that critical years with problematic rings it didn’t have MB229.5 approval like M1 0W40, which is far more demanding on deposits etc. I always got hate here telling folks that I would pick any other OTS oil than Castrol 5W40. It is for all intended purposes a budget oil.
As for VRP it did what supposed to do. However, we really don’t know what that oil leaves behind compared to Euro oils. Euro approvals are not just HTHS, but deposit limits, oxidation etc. MB229.5/51/52 are gold standard. If car requires VW502.00, my rule is always to get oil that has MB229.5 too.

Agree about the Castrol. I’ve always used Mobil 1 FS 0-40 in the past on all my Euro vehicles. I’ve had no problems with it until they get up about 200,000 miles at which point they do start consuming some oil. I’ve changed valve cover gaskets and was always impressed with how clean the top end is, but it’s now made me wonder if the piston deposits are catching up with them and starting to stick the oil control rings.

I also see that Mobil 1 changed their formula on that oil. It became evident to me after I put it in my twin turbo Mercedes V8. I didn’t like the way it sounded and reacted. I searched the web to find answers and that when I discovered that Mobil 1 changed their formula. I also was seeing higher wear metals with this new formula and it really bothered me. I end up selling the Mercedes and also have gone away from the Mobil 1 in my Audis too and gone to the VR&P in them, mostly because of the consumption problem with the low tension oil control rings in the Q7s CREC engine. My A6 doesn’t have consumption issues but figured the VR&P works so well in the Q7 may as well give it a whirl here too.

Mobil 1 has always been my go to but after seeing how poor its doing for wear metals in different engines and how bad it made my old Mercedes run, I feel I’d have to find something else to use anyway. I’m just not liking the new M1 formulation at all compared to the old M1 formulation.

 

[kschachn]

Waiting for Mr. K to correct your spelling.

Apparently you were on it more than me.

 

[scrllock]

HTHS isn't a problem because almost all Euro cars today are running on 20 grades or lower. They're also long drain oils so VRP in 30 grade at 5k miles should be no problem.

It is a problem--who is running VRP in their brand new euro motor? We're talking about motors with gummed up rings that came spec'd for 3.5+ HTHS 30 and 40 grades. 30 grade VRP is too low in HTHS. 10W40 VRP might be sufficient but I don't think anyone has posted spec sheet indicating its HTHS.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

It is a problem--who is running VRP in their brand new euro motor? We're talking about motors with gummed up rings that came spec'd for 3.5+ HTHS 30 and 40 grades. 30 grade VRP is too low in HTHS. 10W40 VRP might be sufficient but I don't think anyone has posted spec sheet indicating its HTHS.

Well for one, probably nobody because they're scared to death about warranty and/or intend to take the oil for the full OCI. I don't remember VRP being a "long drain" lube.
Secondly not everyone is only talking about oil burners which require a min HTHS of 3.5. Some are asking about using VRP in general. Just about every euro engine made in the last decade is using a 20 grade as standard fill. If that's the case for you engine then you can't say the hths is insufficient when using a 30 or 20 grade.

Note: The min required HTHS for 0/5/10w-40 is 3.5cP. For 15w-40 and higher it's 3.7cP.

 

[scrllock]

Well for one, probably nobody because they're scared to death about warranty and/or intend to take the oil for the full OCI. I don't remember VRP being a "long drain" lube.

HTHS is not related to long drains, it is related to high stress and wear. Not sure why you're talking about drain intervals.

Some are asking about using VRP in general.

I'm not sure if you read the title of this thread.

 

[BMWTurboDzl]

HTHS is not related to long drains, it is related to high stress and wear. Not sure why you're talking about drain interval.

You specifically asked who's using VRP in their NEW euro motor. I never mentioned anything about HTHS in response to your question. Perhaps read what I said rather than what you think I said?

I'm not sure if you read the title of this thread.

I'm not sure if you read the posts I have been responding to.

 

[MolaKule]

Let's please address himemsys's original question and stop the bickering.

"For those of you with Euro oil spec'd cars, would you consider using R&P either temporarily or permanently? By temporarily, I mean for 1-4 oil changes (Valvoline says for best results to use for 4 consecutive oil changes), then switch back to your usual Euro oil."

 

[scrllock]

You specifically asked who's using VRP in their NEW euro motor. I never mentioned anything about HTHS in response to your question. Perhaps read what I said rather than what you think I said?

I'm not sure if you read the posts I have been responding to.

The person you replied to brought up a good point regarding a key difference in the requirements euro manufacturers add to their motor specifications.

This is one of the obvious, key differences that VRP is lacking.

 

[KnappAttak]

I understand the need for higher HTHS numbers when the Euro vehicle is used in its intended space, which is the Autobahn and at high speeds when the oil temps get high from all the higher RPM. Thats what the higher HTHS is intended for. High temp, high shear, but imagine for a second if oil temps dont get high due to high speeds and RPM like the Autobahn sees. Common sense says if your oil never sees those high temps and high RPMs with the high speed then the engine doesn't NEED the higher HTHS.

Also, if not doing 10,000 drain intervals, why the need for Euro oils high TBN numbers? Someone tell me what the Euro oils do better other than offer longer drain intervals and offer higher HTHS. VR&P 5w30 HTHS had been said is over 3.2 and to see thats good enough if running the speed limit or even higher here in the states. Most of us are not driving over a 100 MPH for any length of time in the states, and if you change at 5000 mile intervals, where's the problem?

Racing and track running will obviously need thicker oils with stronger HTHS figures, but the average guy driving a Euro vehicle in the states certainly will not need the higher HTHS, it's just common sense.

Pro stock cars run 0 and 2 weight oil. Imagine the HTHS on that! They are up at 1500 HP. The difference is they don't run for any length of time and don't get into high oil temps. What does Lake Speed say? Let the application dictate the chemistry or something of that sort.
Use the correct oil for the application, and IMO there is no perfect oil for every vehicle as people use them differently and in different locations. Pick the one that is right for you and your driving style. If running in Europe on the Autobahn, I would never-ever run VR&P unless it was a much higher viscosity and HTHS that much I know.

 

[Jetronic]

Let's please address himemsys's original question and stop the bickering.

"For those of you with Euro oil spec'd cars, would you consider using R&P either temporarily or permanently? By temporarily, I mean for 1-4 oil changes (Valvoline says for best results to use for 4 consecutive oil changes), then switch back to your usual Euro oil."

I would consider it after exhausting other, more viscous options and if the oil use problem is severe enough. I'm quite intolerant of oil use so it wouldn't take much.. 1 liter per oci is my personal limit.

 

[JAG]

Possibly blend in enough Amsoil V-Twin to get 3.5 cP HTHS. VRP 5W-30 and Amsoil HTHS viscosities are 3.2 and 5.6. 12% of Amsoil in the blend yields approximately 3.5 cP. I prefer to not mix chemistries, especially if the sole purpose of the VRP is to clean, but perhaps mixing is a lesser evil than the lower viscosity.

 

[svenson]

I would consider it after exhausting other, more viscous options and if the oil use problem is severe enough. I'm quite intolerant of oil use so it wouldn't take much.. 1 liter per oci is my personal limit.

like? what other options you mean?

 

[Jetronic]

like? what other options you mean?

Ester/AN containing oils of higher viscosity.

 

[svenson]

Ester/AN containing oils of higher viscosity.

except the oil you use,or HPL which i cant find it in europe,do you share the love for M1 esp 0-30 ester oil for such a case? is it ester enough for such a use?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

except the oil you use,or HPL which i cant find it in europe,do you share the love for M1 esp 0-30 ester oil for such a case? is it ester enough for such a use?

The correct ester(s), especially when combined with alkylated napthalenes, will be more than enough to clean.

However, finding out exactly which esters clean the best, and then finding a fully-formulated oil that uses those specific esters in the correct amounts, will be much more difficult. One of the companies is a board sponsor. Cutting-edge oil technology isn’t cheap, but it is cheaper than replacing or rebuilding an engine.