Hahaha, from what is better then MB229.5 to Brotella T6 
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My dude just buy QS Euro 5W40.
. My dude just buy QS Euro 5W40.
10w30 VR1 vs 5w40 Euro (M156 V8)
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Hey brotha, just run either Redline 0w40 in that engine or Ravenol 5w40 VST......HPL would be fine too. Or the Amsoil Euro. You want a higher HTHS.....Redline is 4, Ravenol is 3.9......Ive got a 700hp C63 with the M177 running Ravenol 5w40 VST right now
There's a difference between an engine surviving on T6 and thriving on T6. Many will survive, few will thrive. No friction modifier, ZDDP is lower in recent analysis, and foams horribly. It will run hotter and leave some power on the table compared to a better oil.
It's kinda like eating McDonald's every day for 20 years and saying "It hasn't killed me yet." It'll catch up to you. I've done a lot of teardowns of performance engines and never seen one on BROtella look as good as an appropriate oil.
It's kinda like eating McDonald's every day for 20 years and saying "It hasn't killed me yet." It'll catch up to you. I've done a lot of teardowns of performance engines and never seen one on BROtella look as good as an appropriate oil.
so at what point does the HTHS rating become negligible? and which of the 0w40 and 5w40 have the highest HTHS?
I wasn't aware of the bad wrap Rotella had gotten around here, too much of a good thing turned bad I guess.
The VR1 options are really my only interest outside of just buying whatever Euro 5w40 I get the best deal on at any given time. They are essentially street oils with higher ZDDP, and on short changes I think I'd be ok.
I wasn't aware of the bad wrap Rotella had gotten around here, too much of a good thing turned bad I guess.
The VR1 options are really my only interest outside of just buying whatever Euro 5w40 I get the best deal on at any given time. They are essentially street oils with higher ZDDP, and on short changes I think I'd be ok.
Rotella was never a good thing. It was just a cheap thing which, by way of self-confirming mental gymnastics, people made out to be something much greater than it actually is. (hence we call it "BROtella") It's cheap and their engine didn't instantly blow up so that make's it god's elixir.
Just get an A3/B4 5W-40 and call it a day.
edyvw
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As said it was never good.
The reason why T6 got followers is that it was used by Subaru bro’s who didn’t know any better, and VW folks who needed something thick 16-17yrs ago to fight dilution in EA113 engines. At that time like now, most W40 oils were on thinner side and fuel dilution monster that EA113 was, it was shearing oil.
Get MB229.5 oil in your local Wal Mart and call it a day.
NEVER good? Like ever, even before they changed formulas?? There is a surplus of very good looking T6 UOA's on the innerwebs' dating years back to current and from pretty much anything and everything you can imagine not just Subaru's...
And again, a good buddy of mine and well known builder of M156's also uses it routinely with great UOA's, I'll see if I can get a copy to add here.
I have no attachment to T6 whatsoever, so no harm no foul, just makes it sound like you guys are tired of it vs it actually being bad.
What about T4, T5, also not good in your opinion?
Is fuel dilution causing shearing still as much of a problem as it was with EA113 now? I'm genuinely uneducated on that front...
And again, a good buddy of mine and well known builder of M156's also uses it routinely with great UOA's, I'll see if I can get a copy to add here.
I have no attachment to T6 whatsoever, so no harm no foul, just makes it sound like you guys are tired of it vs it actually being bad.
What about T4, T5, also not good in your opinion?
Is fuel dilution causing shearing still as much of a problem as it was with EA113 now? I'm genuinely uneducated on that front...
Imo those eat cams because they were not heat treated correctly. No oil can compensate for that.
what lead you to that theory?
Another few oils for consideration...
What about Mobil 1 5w50? Much better than the 0w40 or 5w40?
And what about Mobil 1 15w50?
What about Mobil 1 5w50? Much better than the 0w40 or 5w40?
And what about Mobil 1 15w50?
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
It was good for its intended purposes. That is it.
When I say never good, I mean never good in these applications.
I mean, you are jumping hoops to avoid what is basically the gold standard of oil approvals, MB229.5. No oil will solve the mechanical issues. It can only hide it.
What is his UOA showing? UOA cannot show how the engine performs. It can only show potential issues if there is a dramatic spike in some wear metals, let's say your iron goes from 15 to 70. Then UOA is useful as you can do several back-to-back to see trend. Other than that, UOA is designed to show how oil did, not an engine! It is a well-known issue in private aviation where owners rely on UOA instead of experienced mechanics, and then things "happen." But even if oil performed well, does not mean the engine did, meaning it could leave more deposits, CBU, etc. European manufacturers came up with approvals precisely so you don't have to guess.
No fuel dilution has been an issue in Euro engines in the last decade or so (EA113 is a 2004 engine), and today, gas has far less sulfur.
But I should add, T6 was not also any solution in those EA113 engines.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
It is not, it will shear down faster. 15W50 is nothing spectacular.
If you will be warmer around the heart, 5W50 is not going to do any harm. You might feel a bit of delay when stepping on gas fully as it is higher HTHS oil, I highly doubt you will see any drop in mpg as it is not a fuel saver anyway.
Gotcha, thank you for the explanation, and I promise I am not trying to jump hoops lol, just merely gain further understanding. I haven't found any oil worth being loyal to truly, so I only care about finding something good at a good price typically. This engine, obviously requires a bit more attention but still my overall goal is the same, just find what is best for it and if that is as simple as 229.5 then no worries, I still like to explore to find out what else is out there or what could be better.
And I hear you on the UOA's, to be honest I have never spent the time or money to do one myself. Years ago, when I first got into AMG's my C55 burned tons of oil running the recommended Mobil 0w40, about a quart every 1500mi, come to find out a quart every 1000mi was approved normal by Benz (crazy if you ask me). So I decided I would try things my way to see if I could improve things, I ran Mobil TD 5w40 for a few short changes to clean things up, consumption drastically improved. I then tried Castrol 0w40 and Valvoline 5w40 and both did better but not perfect. I then switched to the VR1 20w50 and I haven't burned anything I can read on a dipstick in 3 changes and I change it once or twice a year (about 2-3k miles typically) and honestly, I drive the car pretty hard most of the time I take it out. That is why I became a believer in VR1 and became curious of it applied to the M156...
And I hear you on the UOA's, to be honest I have never spent the time or money to do one myself. Years ago, when I first got into AMG's my C55 burned tons of oil running the recommended Mobil 0w40, about a quart every 1500mi, come to find out a quart every 1000mi was approved normal by Benz (crazy if you ask me). So I decided I would try things my way to see if I could improve things, I ran Mobil TD 5w40 for a few short changes to clean things up, consumption drastically improved. I then tried Castrol 0w40 and Valvoline 5w40 and both did better but not perfect. I then switched to the VR1 20w50 and I haven't burned anything I can read on a dipstick in 3 changes and I change it once or twice a year (about 2-3k miles typically) and honestly, I drive the car pretty hard most of the time I take it out. That is why I became a believer in VR1 and became curious of it applied to the M156...
The spec requires 3.5cP. AFAIK that's about the point where additional HTHS is more for overhead for shear/dilution than protection itself.
In general a 5w40 will have a slightly higher HTHS than a 0w40 from the same brand with similar approvals but as mentioned already, the better base oils in the 0w40 might be more durable.
It is possible an oil with higher ZDDP will reduce cam wear but didn't VR1 cut down on their ZDDP?
Money no object I would use one of the 4.0+ HTHS 5w40 oils that have already been mentioned (or Driven DT40). I don't understand the rationale for using an HD diesel oil or classic muscle car oil in a modern, high-revving euro V8 with a timing chain. The spec for your car is not kneecapped for efficiency or SAPS.
The reasons for not using T6 were already mentioned and apply to any heavy-duty diesel oil. Even the Subaru kids have mostly moved on from Rotella, Motul has been the cool thing for a while.
ZDDP is still at 1400 for the VR1 20w50's both conv and syn and 1100 for the 10w30's
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Try HPL Euro 5W40. We have some UOA from track where it did exceptionally well in small turbo, high stressed engine.
If you want something "special" HPL BAS 5W40 is track oil that is OK to use on street.
I know HPL is probably fantastic, I remember when it first showed up on here and I'd love to try it, but running as many cars as I do, I have to be cost efficient and the price is quite high on HPL's oils. Deservingly so from what I see but still, not justifiable for my usage.
edyvw
$50 site donor 2025
Get Mobil1 0W40 or 5W40 FS from your local Wal Mart.
Personally, I always liked Castrol Edge 0W30, which goes for $37 at AAP with a filter. MB229.5.
I maintain the neighbor's ML550, and I use M1 0W40 in his car.
If you want to experiment with higher ZDDP, you can mix I guess M1 0W40 and 15W50.
So mixing in your opinion is ok? Do you recommend sticking to one Manufacturer when doing so?
I've done it many times to try and lower the viscosity a bit, like 10w30 and 20w50 VR1 in my C36. But I have also heard it can cause issues with chemical imbalances depending on the formulas??
Would you pick the Castrol 0w30 for the M156 over the other big brand Euro oils? And how does Mobil's 0w30 compare?
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