Wind turbines shut down when needed most..

[IndyIan]

Build? Yes. Maintain and secure? Not so much. Darlington OPEX is around $0.036/kWh all-in, including all staffing (including security), maintenance and fuel. This does not include refurbishment however.

Smallest CANDU is of course the EC6 at 725MW, not "small", but would work fine for Alberta, as they were originally looking at 1,200MWe units at Peace River.

I mean, Quebec did it? Most of their power comes from the James Bay Project and Churchill Falls, both of which are much more remote than any nuke would be in Alberta or Saskatchewan.

If it pencils out, then they should do it, but I think retrofitting a whole grid for 1 or 2 point sources is a bit expensive as they seem to have many many generation plants all over right now.
The Quebec hydro system is also paid for by a lot more people, in Quebec and 10's of millions in the US, so what works there, may not apply to the west either, as there isn't really many densely populated areas until you get to the coast.
But for two provinces pretty dependent on fossil fuels, the government investing in nuclear will be essentially helping fund a reduction in a main industry of their economy. I don't know what the manufacturing capabilities are in Alberta? Maybe they do have some knowledge base to quickly pivot to nuclear from resource extraction/refining? Probably for Alberta /Sask, the best case scenario is for the rest of the country to help fund all these CO2 reduction technologies while they continuing to allow fossil fuel extraction...

 

[KrisZ]

In Texas we warm ourselves with hot wife bodies and thoughts of shooting our guns. Preferably at the wind mills? I think there is whiskey somewhere in there too.
Oh yeah, I feel warmer already

 

[OVERKILL]

If it pencils out, then they should do it, but I think retrofitting a whole grid for 1 or 2 point sources is a bit expensive as they seem to have many many generation plants all over right now.
The Quebec hydro system is also paid for by a lot more people, in Quebec and 10's of millions in the US, so what works there, may not apply to the west either, as there isn't really many densely populated areas until you get to the coast.
But for two provinces pretty dependent on fossil fuels, the government investing in nuclear will be essentially helping fund a reduction in a main industry of their economy. I don't know what the manufacturing capabilities are in Alberta? Maybe they do have some knowledge base to quickly pivot to nuclear from resource extraction/refining? Probably for Alberta /Sask, the best case scenario is for the rest of the country to help fund all these CO2 reduction technologies while they continuing to allow fossil fuel extraction...

My understanding is that the oil sands are powered by gas. If that gas can be replaced, at least in part, by nuclear power, then that gas can be exported and sold. I don't believe they have any plans of winding down their primary industry, just reducing domestic consumption so they can increase exports. This will of course also dramatically decrease the emissions intensity of these operations.

Looks like there will be an announcement today with Ken Hartwick from OPG about a partnership with Alberta to build some nukes. Technology selection appears to be the BWRX-300 SMR's that are being built at Darlington B.

RE: Quebec, remember, Quebec wasn't always super heavy on exports, and the James Bay project cost like $25 billion in the 80's and they have $55 billion in debt on their books. They can swing that because they are a massive vertically integrated public utility, like the former Ontario Hydro. This is the big obstacle for Alberta, they don't have an entity like that, while Saskatchewan at least has SK Power. Also, they have that super rapey deal with Newfoundland for the output of Churchill Falls, which is what drove Newfoundland to pursue Muskrat Falls independently, which has turned into quite the boondoogle, including its massive island link.

Looks like Peace River is 488km from Edmonton, 747km from Calgary. So, about twice as far from Edmonton as The Bruce is from Toronto (227km). However, the James Bay Project is 1,313km from Montreal, while Churchill Falls is 1,489km.

 

[Snagglefoot]

There is a lot of finger pointing going on in Alberta as a result of the windmill fiasco. Having huge gas reserves, Alberta has no intention of leaving it in the ground. The greeny feds claim Alberta should have 100% backup for the windmills for the events were it poops it’s pants. Who pays for this?

 

[edyvw]

What coolant ?
You don’t put water pipe under slabs in much of Texas - we have too much soil movement … then you totally destroy the slab/home with parted pipe you didn’t know was leaking. Sheetrock is cheap - my pipe is right above sheet rock but under R30 and 3/4” tech shield decking …
This map shows the northern shared grid that includes OK - this is historically the coldest part of Texas. I’m coastal - kept power.

Yes, Texas is a mix of power sources - they are commissioning a new wind farm 3 miles from me now …

View attachment 198563

Winterization of cooling system at power plants. Once they got kicked out of system everything was downhill from there.

 

[alarmguy]

Wind turbines shut down: Yes
Anyone die because of it: No
People whining about green energy: Yes

It's irresponsible to ignore the short comings of any electric technology.
It's irresponsible to ignore the cost of any electric technology.
The ones that do call that whining, when the most reliable 24 hour a day electric generation is Nuclear but the irresponsible whine about it.

But dont worry Gen Z, China is catching up with 70 Nuclear plants planned, 20 under construction. Gen Z will be freezing in North America and in China they wont have to worry if the wind is blowing or sun shining.
With that said, I know the people here are SLOWLY waking up to the short comings of the movement to realize Nuclear is the fuel of the future.

 

[Thermo1223]

And even a nuke plant - the difference is many of those were dealt with by said winterization … (and protocol)

But as O/K points out - renew’s were not going to give you much in those weather conditions to start with - and always need a crutch …

Massive battery banks are not the answer bcs they rob minerals needed for EV - that HAS to use a battery …

Truth,

Hopefully they learned their lesson especially with the NG supply.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Gotta wonder why wind turbines aren’t coated in materials that prevent ice from “sticking”, harmonics and IR can prevent ice formation also

There probably is a technological answer but if you noticed, in the end, the current amount paid for the power pool is about 59 cents CDN per kW of availability. Those windmills have to be cost competitive against natural gas plants. The power grid in Alberta is privitized.

 

[jetman]

Wind turbines shut down: Yes
Anyone die because of it: No
People whining about green energy: Yes

246 deaths
The Great Texas Freeze in February 2021 resulted in 246 deaths across 77 of the state's counties. The Texas Department of State Health Services updated its official tally of deaths linked to the historic freeze and reported 210 deaths. The deaths were mostly due to exposure to the sometimes subzero temperatures. However, a new analysis by the Houston Chronicle found that the death toll may have been four times higher than the state’s official count, with more than 1,000 deaths during the week-long storm.

 

[KrisZ]

It's irresponsible to ignore the short comings of any electric technology.
It's irresponsible to ignore the cost of any electric technology.
The ones that do call that whining, when the most reliable 24 hour a day electric generation is Nuclear but the irresponsible whine about it.

But dont worry Gen Z, China is catching up with 70 Nuclear plants planned, 20 under construction. Gen Z will be freezing in North America and in China they wont have to worry if the wind is blowing or sun shining.
With that said, I know the people here are SLOWLY waking up to the short comings of the movement to realize Nuclear is the fuel of the future.

People are realizing it too slowly unfortunately.

But if you can convince people there are hundreds of genders and they can identify as whatever they want, you can tell them pretty much anything you want and they will believe it. You just need to put a correct sounding "subject expert" in front of a camera and you're good to go.

 

[wpod]

During the Feb 2021 TX polar vortex, solar and wind weren't producing mainly because of the ice and snow on the equipment. Too much reliance on solar and wind and a lot of people suffered and even died.

It snows in TX, the sun doesn't always shine, and the wind doesn't always blow. You don't even have to be a critical thinker.

I can only think about what my Tv tells me to think about.

 

[Rmay635703]

246 deaths
The Great Texas Freeze in February 2021 resulted in 246 deaths across 77 of the state's counties. The Texas Department of State Health Services updated its official tally of deaths linked to the historic freeze and reported 210 deaths. The deaths were mostly due to exposure to the sometimes subzero temperatures. However, a new analysis by the Houston Chronicle found that the death toll may have been four times higher than the state’s official count, with more than 1,000 deaths during the week-long storm.

During the freeze 1400 people went to the ER for carbon monoxide poisoning alone.

One thing Texas does very poorly is accurately report mortality statistics

 

[4WD]

Winterization of cooling system at power plants. Once they got kicked out of system everything was downhill from there.

They are only 10% to start with - STP was not down long and the NRC approved doubling reactors with current cooling …

 

[edyvw]

They are only 10% to start with - STP was not down long and the NRC approved doubling reactors with current cooling …

But, enough to wreck the system.

 

[4WD]

246 deaths
The Great Texas Freeze in February 2021 resulted in 246 deaths across 77 of the state's counties. The Texas Department of State Health Services updated its official tally of deaths linked to the historic freeze and reported 210 deaths. The deaths were mostly due to exposure to the sometimes subzero temperatures. However, a new analysis by the Houston Chronicle found that the death toll may have been four times higher than the state’s official count, with more than 1,000 deaths during the week-long storm.

The Chronicle claimed there were two recent freezes that were worse - my dead 45 year old plants disagreed …

 

[4WD]

But, enough to wreck the system.

I’m 30 miles from it - we were fine …

 

[edyvw]

I’m 30 miles from it - we were fine …

I do not understand what you talking specifically to you, but in 2021when power plants dropped out, that was it.

 

[OVERKILL]

and most importantly, again, nuclear power plants unable to operate bcs. coolant issues.

What? The lowest nuclear capacity got in Texas was 75% (down 1 unit), and that was due to a sensor line freezing, causing the sensor to trip, because the lines are outside. There were no coolant issues. The unit was brought back as fast as it could be.

Wind and solar were actually working perfectly fine.

Ummm, no, they weren't. A significant portion of the wind turbines were shutdown because they lacked the cold weather package, but even if they had been properly equipped, the situation was similar to Alberta where a cold front such as this rolls in and it brings with it cold, still air, so there isn't much wind to harvest. ERCOT was expecting this, that's why their Winter reliability assessment assumes very low output from wind (they had, at the time, like 28,000MW of installed wind capacity):

And here's how it performed:

So, for wind:
- Installed capacity was 28,755MW, anticipated output was 7,070MW. Average output was 3,153MW, minimum output hit was 649MW, 2.2% of nameplate.

For solar:
- Installed capacity was 4,898MW, anticipated output was 304MW. Average output was 805MW, minimum output was 0MW.

That is why TX went 300% of usage for solar panels so that individual homes “pitch in,” which was reason why they didn’t have blackouts this summer during heatwave.

But would be of no help during this situation, particularly if you were expecting to heat with resistance heating.

When it comes to solar energy, TX is MUCH more liberal than progressive Colorado. They allow 300% installation of your usage while my utilities allow only 120%.

So yeah, voting does matter.

 

[OVERKILL]

There is a lot of finger pointing going on in Alberta as a result of the windmill fiasco. Having huge gas reserves, Alberta has no intention of leaving it in the ground. The greeny feds claim Alberta should have 100% backup for the windmills for the events were it poops it’s pants. Who pays for this?

Well, they had more than double the backup capacity.

I hear it claimed by VRE advocates that you don't need to have full nameplate to backup wind. Sure, if you have a massive overbuild, that's true. What you DO need to have, is full anticipated peak demand + contingency. So, if you have more wind capacity (nameplate) than that figure, cool, you don't need full nameplate backup then, but you DO still need a massive amount.

Both wind, and solar, went to 0MW in Alberta:

So, without having a total installed capacity of peak demand, plus reserve capacity, in other sources, they would have had a total grid black, when it was like -45C.

So then the question is, if your system goes from having a 12GW demand peak, and you have 13GW of gas to operate and maintain, and then you add 10GW of wind, which you also have to pay to connect-in, but still have to maintain the 13GW of gas, is power going to get more or less expensive?

 

[4WD]

What? The lowest nuclear capacity got in Texas was 75% (down 1 unit), and that was due to a sensor line freezing, causing the sensor to trip, because the lines are outside. There were no coolant issues. They unit was brought back as fast as it could be.

Ummm, no, they weren't. A significant portion of the wind turbines were shutdown because they lacked the cold weather package, but even if they had been properly equipped, the situation was similar to Alberta where a cold front such as this rolls in and it brings with it cold, still air, so there isn't much wind to harvest. ERCOT was expecting this, that's why their Winter reliability assessment assumes very low output from wind (they had, at the time, like 28,000MW of installed wind capacity):
View attachment 198620

And here's how it performed:
View attachment 198621
So, for wind:
- Installed capacity was 28,755MW, anticipated output was 7,070MW. Average output was 3,153MW, minimum output hit was 649MW, 2.2% of nameplate.

For solar:
- Installed capacity was 4,898MW, anticipated output was 304MW. Average output was 805MW, minimum output was 0MW.

But would be of no help during this situation, particularly if you were expecting to heat with resistance heating.

STP has NRC approval to go from 2 to 4 reactors with current cooling. The major cities that get this power need to pony up - what about these big cities ? Don’t want it ? Won’t fight for funding ?