The real cost of wind and solar: Why rates don't match the claims

OVERKILL

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Are you going to watch Three Mile Island on Netflix?
Unlikely, the reviews I've read so far have indicated that it is far poorer produced than Chernobyl.

Netflix is trying to sensationalize what amounted to a pretty insignificant event, thinking that they can do with this, what HBO did with the Chernobyl series. Pretty gross.
 
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Unlikely, the reviews I've read so far have indicated that it is far poorer produced than Chernobyl.

Netflix is trying to sensationalize what amounted to a pretty insignificant event, thinking that they can do with this, what HBO did with the Chernobyl series. Pretty gross.
Ahh okay. I haven't seen it either but the preview piece is a portion of the interview with a plant employee who was talking about trying to remove the radiation off himself.
 
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I had a experience working on engineering studies out of college for university. Any analysis can gather studies in a manner to support a certain finding or case to placate the funding agency or individuals behind the scenes.

I am not for or against energy alternatives.
 
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Ahh okay. I haven't seen it either but the preview piece is a portion of the interview with a plant employee who was talking about trying to remove the radiation off himself.


Standard operating procedure or just brushing it off by hand?

I don’t have Netflix nor do I care to.
 
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Standard operating procedure or just brushing it off by hand?

I don’t have Netflix nor do I care to.
The excerpt I watch showed an actor in the shower doing a manual scrub and the plant worker providing the voiceover commenting on the amount he was exposed to and that he could not get it all off . I have no idea of that is SOP or not.
 
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People with solar should be paying full pop for delivery for the total # of kWh moved on the wires. They should also be paid whatever the wholesale rate is for power at that time, because that's the value of that electricity at the time it is being delivered to the grid.
Here in FL, grid tie solar is popular. I have spoken with a FL representative who is proposing legislation that does exactly that. In fact, I think the proposal, if approved, has a good chance of passing. Power generated by solar will always be able to reduce one's consumption, when the AC is running and the sun is shining, for example. But being paid for using the grid as storage makes little sense, considering grid costs, AND how much additional fuel is consumed by the utility to accommodate intermittency.

It's possible to make solar work well. It's not cheap, and those "facts" are coming out. For that matter, honestly powering a Tesla with solar would, for example, require at least 2 Tesla cars. One would charge directly from the panels, the day the other is driven.
 
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The excerpt I watch showed an actor in the shower doing a manual scrub and the plant worker providing the voiceover commenting on the amount he was exposed to and that he could not get it all off . I have no idea of that is SOP or not.


We were trained to use a stiff brush in the military. The brushing was done by someone else. Water was provided by a fire hose and since we were on a ship it was seawater. Then a check with a Geiger counter. Clothes were discarded.

In reality, we watched a movie and then went thru a walkthrough of the process since the temperatures were pretty cold and it was a a drill anyway.

If you think about it, you want to contain the radioactive materials. Walking into a shower just contaminated that shower. As a more recent example the USS Ronald Reagan had to go through extensive work after Fukushima including replacing pipes and vents. They were out of service for some time.
 

OVERKILL

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The excerpt I watch showed an actor in the shower doing a manual scrub and the plant worker providing the voiceover commenting on the amount he was exposed to and that he could not get it all off . I have no idea of that is SOP or not.
Would need some context on the dose, nobody at TMI got massive doses like at Chernobyl, the core only partially melted (just the top bit) and the containment did its job. Essentially, the unit just bricked itself. Figuring out that the valve wasn't in the state that it was supposed to be and thus why what was happening, was happening, was the source of delay but the event really was insignificant both due to design (it had containment) and because it was caught and dealt with before a full meltdown could happen.

As a somewhat amusing aside, a nuke operator I know on twitter was making a joke about how bad this series was but did mention the changes that TMI brought to the industry and a reply to him was like "yeah, you are looking at the two indicators, one being the "valve closed" notification and the "valve detected closed" notification". That's the redundancy that TMI forced on the US nukes. It's a good thing.
 
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Here in FL, grid tie solar is popular. I have spoken with a FL representative who is proposing legislation that does exactly that. In fact, I think the proposal, if approved, has a good chance of passing. Power generated by solar will always be able to reduce one's consumption, when the AC is running and the sun is shining, for example. But being paid for using the grid as storage makes little sense, considering grid costs, AND how much additional fuel is consumed by the utility to accommodate intermittency.

It's possible to make solar work well. It's not cheap, and those "facts" are coming out. For that matter, honestly powering a Tesla with solar would, for example, require at least 2 Tesla cars. One would charge directly from the panels, the day the other is driven.

If in Florida I'd want enough land for land based solar and some battery backup (as opposed to using the utility as my battery backup).
 

OVERKILL

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Here in FL, grid tie solar is popular. I have spoken with a FL representative who is proposing legislation that does exactly that. In fact, I think the proposal, if approved, has a good chance of passing. Power generated by solar will always be able to reduce one's consumption, when the AC is running and the sun is shining, for example. But being paid for using the grid as storage makes little sense, considering grid costs, AND how much additional fuel is consumed by the utility to accommodate intermittency.

It's possible to make solar work well. It's not cheap, and those "facts" are coming out. For that matter, honestly powering a Tesla with solar would, for example, require at least 2 Tesla cars. One would charge directly from the panels, the day the other is driven.
Good to hear! As I've said in previous threads, I'm not anti-solar, but it should have to be on a level playing field with all the other sources participating in the market and if you are a homeowner, you should be footing the bill for every kWh you move over the transmission infrastructure, just like everyone else does. When the market is perverted/manipulated by outside forces, it increases the costs for everyone (in a market-based system).

One of the things that came out of the Texas blackout was that wind and solar farms would have to provide their own backup capacity. I'm not sure if that was made official or not, but, here's the link to the bill (there's a companion bill as well, linked in it):
 
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Would need some context on the dose, nobody at TMI got massive doses like at Chernobyl, the core only partially melted (just the top bit) and the containment did its job. Essentially, the unit just bricked itself. Figuring out that the valve wasn't in the state that it was supposed to be and thus why what was happening, was happening, was the source of delay but the event really was insignificant both due to design (it had containment) and because it was caught and dealt with before a full meltdown could happen.

As a somewhat amusing aside, a nuke operator I know on twitter was making a joke about how bad this series was but did mention the changes that TMI brought to the industry and a reply to him was like "yeah, you are looking at the two indicators, one being the "valve closed" notification and the "valve detected closed" notification". That's the redundancy that TMI forced on the US nukes. It's a good thing.


I’d prefer Jack Lemmon and his grimace when he tapped the water level gauge on the console and then the needle sank.
 
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Solar doesn't make sense for grid. I think it does for home owners. For grid, nuclear is da wey.
A major cost of solar is installation labor and the transforming infrastructure. Utility scale is much much cheaper than roof top solar.

One thing I notice is a lot of data centers are sprouting up in Las Vegas because of the cheap solar nearby.
 

OVERKILL

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Are you going to watch Three Mile Island on Netflix?
OK, one of the nuke operators on twitter (same one i referenced in a subsequent post) did a thread on it.


For ease of reading, I'll post his entire thread below:
#ThreeMileIsland How exactly do you melt half of a brand new reactor core? It's happened once in US history and had wide spread consequences for the industry.

Key points
-Equipment malfunctioned
-Operators screwed up
-Core melted

So, how? TMI lost Feedwater. This removes heat from the core via the steam generators. The Rx heated up & pressure spiked. This caused a relief valve on the pressurizer to open to reduce pressure. It stuck open, but the crews thought it was closed. They were losing coolant (LOCA). The pressurizer is the highest point in the reactor coolant system. As steam left through the open valve pressure dropped. A steam bubble formed under the Rx vessel head. This bubble pushed water out of the core and into the pressurizer. Pressure dropped more & SI actuated. SI puts water back into the core. If it had continued doing so the core would have been fine. But, the crew turned it off.

Why?

The PRZR was filling up. A full PRZR is bad, it can't control pressure. They were trained to prevent this & they didn't know they had a LOCA. They also turned off reactor coolant pumps. They were vibrating severely due to the steam bubbles they were now pumping. But, they were still helping cool the core. The steam bubble in the head continued to get bigger until fuel was uncovered. Eventually someone recognized the stuck open relief valve. The crew isolated it and restored SI flow. They restarted a RCP. The core was refilled and cooling began again. But, about half of the core had melted.

Containment experienced a H2 burn which caused a pressure spike. Eventually they were forced to vent H2 out of the RCS and into containment, then vent that out to the atmosphere. This is the release that let out radioactive isotopes to the environment. The average dose was about 1.2mrem. I get more on a normal tour of the reactor building. The releases were mainly gas & were quickly diluted on the wind. No one received a dose that would cause any harm. A lot of studies have confirmed this with no identified health effects.

Post TMI, the NRC required plants to add instruments to see core water level & temperature, H2 concentration in containment, and a lot more. Training programs were drastically changed to address the knowledge gaps that caused the accident. INPO formed.

The nuclear industry isn't perfect. But, we took the lessons from TMI seriously. We share events between plants in an effort to learn from other's mistakes. We dig into events and take action to make sure they can't happen again. The culture is of self-assessment & correction. The NRC has 2 resident inspectors at each plant. They have access to any part of the plant whenever they want it. I literally can't tell them no unless they'll die. I am required by law to answer any question they ask me honestly. I cannot refuse to answer.

TMI was a much needed wake up call. The steps that were taken following the accident are why we in the US haven't had another one since. Nuclear is safe. New designs are making it even safer. TMI almost killed nuclear power and every person working at a nuke plant knows it.

This was highly condensed. The accident took days to fully play out. If you want more info, the NRC has a good page.

https://nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/3mile-isle.html

The additional information section has links to a ton of reports related to the accident. -END-
.PS. This is the best report on the NRC page IMO. Good narrative of events.
https://tmi2kml.inl.gov/Documents/2b-Rogovin/NUREGCR-1250V1,%20TMI,%20A%20Report%20To%20The%20Commissioners%20And%20To%20The%20Public%20(Rogovin%20Report)%20(1980-01).pdf
 
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We were trained to use a stiff brush in the military. The brushing was done by someone else. Water was provided by a fire hose and since we were on a ship it was seawater. Then a check with a Geiger counter. Clothes were discarded.

In reality, we watched a movie and then went thru a walkthrough of the process since the temperatures were pretty cold and it was a a drill anyway.

If you think about it, you want to contain the radioactive materials. Walking into a shower just contaminated that shower. As a more recent example the USS Ronald Reagan had to go through extensive work after Fukushima including replacing pipes and vents. They were out of service for some time.
Not 77, 73 (GW) was the FDNF CVN 7over there at the time. They had a ton of special stipulations to metal cutting during her RCOH, which is STILL ongoing.
 
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OK, one of the nuke operators on twitter (same one i referenced in a subsequent post) did a thread on it.


For ease of reading, I'll post his entire thread below:
#ThreeMileIsland How exactly do you melt half of a brand new reactor core? It's happened once in US history and had wide spread consequences for the industry.

Key points
-Equipment malfunctioned
-Operators screwed up
-Core melted

So, how? TMI lost Feedwater. This removes heat from the core via the steam generators. The Rx heated up & pressure spiked. This caused a relief valve on the pressurizer to open to reduce pressure. It stuck open, but the crews thought it was closed. They were losing coolant (LOCA). The pressurizer is the highest point in the reactor coolant system. As steam left through the open valve pressure dropped. A steam bubble formed under the Rx vessel head. This bubble pushed water out of the core and into the pressurizer. Pressure dropped more & SI actuated. SI puts water back into the core. If it had continued doing so the core would have been fine. But, the crew turned it off.

Why?

The PRZR was filling up. A full PRZR is bad, it can't control pressure. They were trained to prevent this & they didn't know they had a LOCA. They also turned off reactor coolant pumps. They were vibrating severely due to the steam bubbles they were now pumping. But, they were still helping cool the core. The steam bubble in the head continued to get bigger until fuel was uncovered. Eventually someone recognized the stuck open relief valve. The crew isolated it and restored SI flow. They restarted a RCP. The core was refilled and cooling began again. But, about half of the core had melted.

Containment experienced a H2 burn which caused a pressure spike. Eventually they were forced to vent H2 out of the RCS and into containment, then vent that out to the atmosphere. This is the release that let out radioactive isotopes to the environment. The average dose was about 1.2mrem. I get more on a normal tour of the reactor building. The releases were mainly gas & were quickly diluted on the wind. No one received a dose that would cause any harm. A lot of studies have confirmed this with no identified health effects.

Post TMI, the NRC required plants to add instruments to see core water level & temperature, H2 concentration in containment, and a lot more. Training programs were drastically changed to address the knowledge gaps that caused the accident. INPO formed.

The nuclear industry isn't perfect. But, we took the lessons from TMI seriously. We share events between plants in an effort to learn from other's mistakes. We dig into events and take action to make sure they can't happen again. The culture is of self-assessment & correction. The NRC has 2 resident inspectors at each plant. They have access to any part of the plant whenever they want it. I literally can't tell them no unless they'll die. I am required by law to answer any question they ask me honestly. I cannot refuse to answer.

TMI was a much needed wake up call. The steps that were taken following the accident are why we in the US haven't had another one since. Nuclear is safe. New designs are making it even safer. TMI almost killed nuclear power and every person working at a nuke plant knows it.

This was highly condensed. The accident took days to fully play out. If you want more info, the NRC has a good page.

https://nrc.gov/reading-rm/doc-collections/fact-sheets/3mile-isle.html

The additional information section has links to a ton of reports related to the accident. -END-
.PS. This is the best report on the NRC page IMO. Good narrative of events.
https://tmi2kml.inl.gov/Documents/2b-Rogovin/NUREGCR-1250V1,%20TMI,%20A%20Report%20To%20The%20Commissioners%20And%20To%20The%20Public%20(Rogovin%20Report)%20(1980-01).pdf

Thanks. Apparently the constant in the series is Rick Parks

 
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Not 77, 73 (GW) was the FDNF CVN 7over there at the time. They had a ton of special stipulations to metal cutting during her RCOH, which is STILL ongoing.


Looks like both were there.



 
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