- Joined
- Jan 6, 2005
- Messages
- 10,327
I wonder what Jackie Chiles would think of VW's oil spec's?
Why VW Asked For It
- Thread starter The Critic
- Start date
- Status
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
"Do we even know what a VW 502 is? Do we know what it does? It's outrageous, it's frivolous! I'm going down there to the dealer right now!"
- Joined
- Jan 6, 2005
- Messages
- 10,327
"Get me one sludge victim on the jury, and you're going to walk out of there a rich man."
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
But if it says something like, "this vehicle requires. 502.xxx.yyy oil", then it is written in code, becuase 502.xxx.yyy is not something familiar to the average person.
And something like "API SM 5w30" is not a code? How many "average persons" actually know what specific oil parameters this designation translates to?
But the point is, they don't have to know what the code means. They just have to match that code with a code on the bottle. The only difference is that you actually have to flip to the back of the bottle to see if the VW "code" is listed there. I'm guessing this feat is also "unfathomable"?
But if it says something like, "this vehicle requires. 502.xxx.yyy oil", then it is written in code, becuase 502.xxx.yyy is not something familiar to the average person.
And something like "API SM 5w30" is not a code? How many "average persons" actually know what specific oil parameters this designation translates to?
But the point is, they don't have to know what the code means. They just have to match that code with a code on the bottle. The only difference is that you actually have to flip to the back of the bottle to see if the VW "code" is listed there. I'm guessing this feat is also "unfathomable"?
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: crrdvr6
VW has a problem of not working out all the kinks before the motor goes into production.
That's why I would not buy a new model or a model with a new engine until a few years after it has been released. It's why I chose the simple 2.8 V6 over the then relatively new 1.8T and why I didn't wait a year for the 2.8 30v to arrive.
However, I don't believe the issue with "kinks," especially in regard to the latest designs, is unique to VW.
Quote:
I fully agree.
Originally Posted By: crrdvr6
VW has a problem of not working out all the kinks before the motor goes into production.
That's why I would not buy a new model or a model with a new engine until a few years after it has been released. It's why I chose the simple 2.8 V6 over the then relatively new 1.8T and why I didn't wait a year for the 2.8 30v to arrive.
However, I don't believe the issue with "kinks," especially in regard to the latest designs, is unique to VW.
Quote:
I fully agree.
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Now put this same "engineering excellence" (at any cost in complexity)
For a few years I have been waiting for you to point out some of the supposed complexity. I have asked you before what's complex on an Audi compared to any other car, and you have never answered. Please, give me at least one example of the alleged complexity (Besides dealing with ignorant and careless dealerships, which is a complex problem!).
Not yours ..you own a VW in Audi clothing.
How many American cars have a central hydraulic system that uses exclusively spec'd fluid (my personal favorite)? How many can be serviced at PEPBOYS, Sears, K-Mart, WM?
Then again, if you insist, they're just common rolling hulks and are no more technologically advanced than a 1972 SBC with 2bbl carb and air injection pump. You just get to pay more for them ..for no good gosh darn reason
In all fairness, they tend to have really oddball ways of doing some things in unconventional manners. Parts have very limited distribution and are very expensive (no, mori, not brakes perhaps).
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Now put this same "engineering excellence" (at any cost in complexity)
For a few years I have been waiting for you to point out some of the supposed complexity. I have asked you before what's complex on an Audi compared to any other car, and you have never answered. Please, give me at least one example of the alleged complexity (Besides dealing with ignorant and careless dealerships, which is a complex problem!).
Not yours ..you own a VW in Audi clothing.
How many American cars have a central hydraulic system that uses exclusively spec'd fluid (my personal favorite)? How many can be serviced at PEPBOYS, Sears, K-Mart, WM?
Then again, if you insist, they're just common rolling hulks and are no more technologically advanced than a 1972 SBC with 2bbl carb and air injection pump. You just get to pay more for them ..for no good gosh darn reason
In all fairness, they tend to have really oddball ways of doing some things in unconventional manners. Parts have very limited distribution and are very expensive (no, mori, not brakes perhaps).
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
How many American cars have a central hydraulic system that uses exclusively spec'd fluid (my personal favorite)
What VW has a "central hydraulic system?" I think you mix up VW with (some older) Citroën. VW etc merely use a hydraulic fluid as P/S fluid.
Quote:
Then again, if you insist, they're just common rolling hulks and are no more technologically advanced than a 1972 SBC with 2bbl carb and air injection pump. You just get to pay more for them ..for no good gosh darn reason
That's an illogical and faulty comparison. You need to compare the complexity of vehicles of roughly the same model year and category. Apples to apples, you know.
Quote:
In all fairness, they tend to have really oddball ways of doing some things in unconventional manners. Parts have very limited distribution and are very expensive
That's how VW and Audi OF AMERICA choose to conduct business.
How many American cars have a central hydraulic system that uses exclusively spec'd fluid (my personal favorite)
What VW has a "central hydraulic system?" I think you mix up VW with (some older) Citroën. VW etc merely use a hydraulic fluid as P/S fluid.
Quote:
Then again, if you insist, they're just common rolling hulks and are no more technologically advanced than a 1972 SBC with 2bbl carb and air injection pump. You just get to pay more for them ..for no good gosh darn reason
That's an illogical and faulty comparison. You need to compare the complexity of vehicles of roughly the same model year and category. Apples to apples, you know.
Quote:
In all fairness, they tend to have really oddball ways of doing some things in unconventional manners. Parts have very limited distribution and are very expensive
That's how VW and Audi OF AMERICA choose to conduct business.
Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
And something like "API SM 5w30" is not a code? How many "average persons" actually know what specific oil parameters this designation translates to?
But the point is, they don't have to know what the code means. They just have to match that code with a code on the bottle. The only difference is that you actually have to flip to the back of the bottle to see if the VW "code" is listed there. I'm guessing this feat is also "unfathomable"?
That is exactly my point. To an oil geek, it is not unfathomable at all. On the contrary, it is a central point of interest. But as we are proud of saying on here (it has become almost a cliche to do "you know you're a BITOGer if...) we are very different from other people.
They know that they don't have to know any of the other oil codes to operate their vehicle. Unless it is called to their attention in a distinct manner, they have no reason to think that their VW is any different.
And something like "API SM 5w30" is not a code? How many "average persons" actually know what specific oil parameters this designation translates to?
But the point is, they don't have to know what the code means. They just have to match that code with a code on the bottle. The only difference is that you actually have to flip to the back of the bottle to see if the VW "code" is listed there. I'm guessing this feat is also "unfathomable"?
That is exactly my point. To an oil geek, it is not unfathomable at all. On the contrary, it is a central point of interest. But as we are proud of saying on here (it has become almost a cliche to do "you know you're a BITOGer if...) we are very different from other people.
They know that they don't have to know any of the other oil codes to operate their vehicle. Unless it is called to their attention in a distinct manner, they have no reason to think that their VW is any different.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
they have no reason to think that their VW is any different.
It's European! Surely it's clear that it's different!
they have no reason to think that their VW is any different.
It's European! Surely it's clear that it's different!
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Now put this same "engineering excellence" (at any cost in complexity)
For a few years I have been waiting for you to point out some of the supposed complexity. I have asked you before what's complex on an Audi compared to any other car, and you have never answered. Please, give me at least one example of the alleged complexity
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Now put this same "engineering excellence" (at any cost in complexity)
For a few years I have been waiting for you to point out some of the supposed complexity. I have asked you before what's complex on an Audi compared to any other car, and you have never answered. Please, give me at least one example of the alleged complexity
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
A fully speced "dealer" oil, still with name brand...
An oem oil...
If VW made everyone buy the dealer oil, they would be [censored], so they spec it and let people give it their best shot.
An oem oil...
If VW made everyone buy the dealer oil, they would be [censored], so they spec it and let people give it their best shot.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Uh, 20 of them? On what engine? Please be specific. Also, how is a check valve "complex?"
The Audi suspension is as complex or as simple as any comparable multilink suspension by any other maker.
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Uh, 20 of them? On what engine? Please be specific. Also, how is a check valve "complex?"
The Audi suspension is as complex or as simple as any comparable multilink suspension by any other maker.
It’s one of the pitfalls of the US market, where 99% of the cars and motor oil produced in NA conform to the one oil for all SM concept. If you buy one of the other 1% or buy an imported vehicle, you are on your own.
The one oil for all concept usually works here. However, the pitfalls are obvious when you consider the sludgers and extended OCIs.
Granted, the domestic manufacturers have their own specs, but in reality, no problems will arise with the use of any SM oil in their vehicles at reasonable OCIs (sludgers excepted).
I really think adding a second grade would be simple enough, and could correct most of the pitfalls of the one oil for all concept. A regular oil and a premium oil, sorta like regular unleaded and premium unleaded. Premium would be spec’d to handle turbos, high performance/high heat applications, and/or long OCIs. Regular for everything else.
The one oil for all concept usually works here. However, the pitfalls are obvious when you consider the sludgers and extended OCIs.
Granted, the domestic manufacturers have their own specs, but in reality, no problems will arise with the use of any SM oil in their vehicles at reasonable OCIs (sludgers excepted).
I really think adding a second grade would be simple enough, and could correct most of the pitfalls of the one oil for all concept. A regular oil and a premium oil, sorta like regular unleaded and premium unleaded. Premium would be spec’d to handle turbos, high performance/high heat applications, and/or long OCIs. Regular for everything else.
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: addyguy
When I worked at a Walmart Tire and Lube Express, I remember a 1.8T Passat coming in, smoking and 'knocking' a bit. Open up the filler cap, and just filled with black junk.
Oil that was put in? Bulk YB 5w30...and the sticker indicated there was about 10k miles on the last fill of this oil...
And you didn't say anything?
When I worked at a Walmart Tire and Lube Express, I remember a 1.8T Passat coming in, smoking and 'knocking' a bit. Open up the filler cap, and just filled with black junk.
Oil that was put in? Bulk YB 5w30...and the sticker indicated there was about 10k miles on the last fill of this oil...
And you didn't say anything?
- Joined
- Sep 28, 2002
- Messages
- 39,793
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Please be specific.
No! I refuse! ..and so does anyone else.
Then again, an Audi is no more complex than any other contemporary automobile ..like a FWD NEON ..they just cost more.
Is this the impression that we're to take away from your (apparent) objection to the term "complex"??
AUDI ..as simple as a NEON ..just more costly!
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Please be specific.
No! I refuse! ..and so does anyone else.
Then again, an Audi is no more complex than any other contemporary automobile ..like a FWD NEON ..they just cost more.
Is this the impression that we're to take away from your (apparent) objection to the term "complex"??
AUDI ..as simple as a NEON ..just more costly!
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
"Get me one sludge victim on the jury, and you're going to walk out of there a rich man."
"Who told you to use the balm"
"Get me one sludge victim on the jury, and you're going to walk out of there a rich man."
"Who told you to use the balm"
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Please be specific.
No! I refuse! ..and so does anyone else.
Then again, an Audi is no more complex than any other contemporary automobile ..like a FWD NEON ..they just cost more.
Is this the impression that we're to take away from your (apparent) objection to the term "complex"??
AUDI ..as simple as a NEON ..just more costly!
Gary, a Neon is not in the same class as any Audi made after ca 1989. Of course the Neon is much simpler. You are still not comparing apples to apples.
Originally Posted By: moribundman
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
How about the 20 odd vacuum check valves? Suspension design would be another area of concern.
Please be specific.
No! I refuse! ..and so does anyone else.
Then again, an Audi is no more complex than any other contemporary automobile ..like a FWD NEON ..they just cost more.
Is this the impression that we're to take away from your (apparent) objection to the term "complex"??
AUDI ..as simple as a NEON ..just more costly!
Gary, a Neon is not in the same class as any Audi made after ca 1989. Of course the Neon is much simpler. You are still not comparing apples to apples.
- Joined
- Jun 2, 2003
- Messages
- 23,587
Originally Posted By: TurboLuver
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
"Get me one sludge victim on the jury, and you're going to walk out of there a rich man."
"Who told you to use the balm"
Is this thread going to end with the braless women, Sue Ellen Mischke?
Originally Posted By: wavinwayne
"Get me one sludge victim on the jury, and you're going to walk out of there a rich man."
"Who told you to use the balm"
Is this thread going to end with the braless women, Sue Ellen Mischke?
"You mean the heir to the O'Henry candy bar fortune?"
- Status
Similar threads
- Locked
- Locked
