Oil Specs for New VW/Audi gas engines

TooSlick · Apr 2, 2005

Flipped through the owners manual of the new VW Jetta on friday (nice car, BTW). Oil spec calls for a product meeting VW 500.00, VW 502.00 or VW 505.01. Note that the VW 500.00 and VW 502.00 specs have been around for 5-10 years already.

As I've mentioned, one of the main reasons for this VW 505.01 spec is so VW dealers can consolidate the confusing array of oils they carry. The old 5w-40 Syntec is only VW 502.00/VW 505.00 rated as you may recall.

I believe what you'll see is VW/Audi dealers start to stock only the 5w-40, Castrol VW 505.01 rated synthetic and using it for VW 500.00/VW 502.00/VW 505.00/VW 505.01 applications. In other words, VW/Audi gas engine as well as older TDI's and the newer PD TDI's.

This dual use is one of the main reasons for the reduced sulphur, sulphated ash, phosphorus (SAP's) levels in the VW 505.01 formulations. It's also why these oils pass the ACEA A3 and VW 500.00 gas engine specifications....

Now if I could only get the misguided folks on the TDI Club forum to understand the significance of the VW 505.01 spec....

Ted

[ April 03, 2005, 11:38 AM: Message edited by: TooSlick ]

Yuk · Apr 3, 2005

TS,

I have a combo question for you which stems from this and two other topics in the Car and Truck Gas Engine Oil forum.

You stated, regarding the use of Syntec 5w-50 in my VW 1.8T,

quote:

The sludge was due to degraded polymeric thickener, ie VI modifier. This is why it is desirable to minimize or eliminate these if possible. It's also why I'm not a fan of the very wide range - 0w-40/5w-50/10w-60 - synthetic lubricants.
TS

Makes good sense to me.

You also say above,

quote:

The old 5w-40 Syntec is only VW 502.00/VW 505.00 rated as you may recall.

What components are added to the group lll 5w-40 that allow it to perform better in VW applications than the PAO /Group lll blended 5w-50? Is the 10 point viscosity difference between the two oils too great for any of oil components to overcome, or does the 5w-40 have certain additives that the 5w-50 doesn't?

I posted in another topic my interest in using Esso XD-3 0w-30 or 0w-40 in the Passat. Neither oil has any of the VW specs on the bottles, but I figure they might do well, based on the fact they are HDEOs and "100 % PAO" synthetics. Am I fooling myself?

Thanks!

moribundman · Apr 3, 2005

quote:

Note that the VW 500.00 and VW 502.00 specs have been around for 5-10 years already.

VW 500.00 is already listed in my 1989 VW Scirocco manual. That spec was replaced with VW 502.00 some time after 1996.

Too Slick, do you know the differenc between VW 501.01 and VW 501.00?

Pablo · Apr 3, 2005

In reality, how much do you think the "average" USA VW owner pays attention to these specs? (NOT TDI or any VW club members, just average Janes and Joes)

I'll bet they just get the earl changed at a quickie place............

wavinwayne · Apr 3, 2005

All those poor little VW's getting quickie-lube oil changes.....It brings a tear to my eye.

I wish I could "adopt" more VW's, to save them from this mis-treatment.

TooSlick · Apr 3, 2005

Yuk,

The 5w-40 Syntec is a very average synthetic, based on the data I've seen in the VW TDI application. There is probably some PAO in it as well, since it passes the TDI engine test for piston deposits and ring sticking.

Synthetic diesel oils are by and large not primarily intended for use in passenger cars. So they aren't tested to these ACEA, A3/B3 standards, even though they would probably pass them. I would choose something that meets the VW minimum spec for high temp/high shear viscosity of 3.5 Cp @ 150C. I believe all 30wt diesel oils also have to meet this 3.5 Cp spec according to the SAE. I'd go with the 0w-30 over the 0w-40 for the Passat, given you're up in Canada.

Morbundman,

Those are both old specs as well, so I'm not sure the differences matter. I'd look for VW 503.01 for most new VW/Audi applications. This is one of the few Longlife oils available in North America....

Ted

Brikhead · Apr 3, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
In reality, how much do you think the "average" USA VW owner pays attention to these specs? (NOT TDI or any VW club members, just average Janes and Joes)

I'll bet they just get the earl changed at a quickie place............

This has been a major sticking point w/VWoA, especially for owners of PD TDIs requiring 505.01 for warranty compliance. Car sales staff are eager to reinforce the fuel mileage benefits of the TDI at the point of sale. But many fail to mention the maintainence costs(Castrol TXT 505.01 lists for $6.25 per ltr from the dealer), so many unsuspecting TDI owners have complained to VWoA about the costs/availability of the oil.

wavinwayne · Apr 3, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by Brikhead:

quote:

Originally posted by Pablo:
In reality, how much do you think the "average" USA VW owner pays attention to these specs? (NOT TDI or any VW club members, just average Janes and Joes)

I'll bet they just get the earl changed at a quickie place............

Click to expand...

This has been a major sticking point w/VWoA, especially for owners of PD TDIs requiring 505.01 for warranty compliance. Car sales staff are eager to reinforce the fuel mileage benefits of the TDI at the point of sale. But many fail to mention the maintainence costs(Castrol TXT 505.01 lists for $6.25 per ltr from the dealer), so many unsuspecting TDI owners have complained to VWoA about the costs/availability of the oil.

Not to mention the fact that the VW TDI maintenace schedule calls for timing belt replacement much more frequently than the VW gassers.

pezzy669 · Apr 4, 2005

[/qb][/QUOTE]Not to mention the fact that the VW TDI maintenace schedule calls for timing belt replacement much more frequently than the VW gassers. [/QB][/QUOTE]

The '03 and up (not sure about the PD but I believe it is the same) has a 100k mile change interval. The 2.0 has no interval specified and the 1.8T is at 105k. The earlier 1.8T's had a habit of breaking timing belts well before the 105k change interval, but luckily most owners were covered by the 10/100 powertrain warranty.

The new 2.5 though has a timing chain.

Audi Junkie · Apr 4, 2005

This chart is helpfull except that Mobil 1 0w-40 is in the wrong column, 503.01 under 0w-30.

http://b6s4.com/audi/tsb/audi_oil.pdf

99 · Apr 4, 2005

If it's a 2.0, Shell Rotella T 5W40 is a excellent choice and perfectly acceptable to use. There's a few more out there as well. I use the Rotella in my wife's 04 Jetta and 01 Beetle. The 2.0 isn't " VW oil specific". The 1.8 and TDI do need to use VW spec oils.

TooSlick · Apr 4, 2005

The VW 502.00/VW 503.01 and/or VW 505.01 oils are preferred in all new VW's now, even the non-turbocharged engines like the 2.0L and VR-6. At the very least, I'd look for something that passes the ACEA A3/B4 specifications, if you want to run the full 10,000 mile oil change intervals specified by VW under severe service conditions.

As a practical matter, most 5w-40 synthetic diesel oils would probably pass the A3 specs and they'd certainly pass the B4 specifications.

If you want to use a conventional oil, I'd run a 15w-40 HDEO for temps > 40F and a 5w-30 for temps < 40F. There is nothing special about the 40F temp, I'm just using it to illustrate the idea of running a heavier oil in warmer weather.

TS

wavinwayne · Apr 4, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by pezzy669:
The '03 and up (not sure about the PD but I believe it is the same) has a 100k mile change interval...

The 2000 VW maintenance schedule calls for TDI timing belt replacement every 40k

for auto trannies & every 60k for manuals.

That job runs $800-1000 at a VW dealer.

knerml · Apr 10, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Flipped through the owners manual of the new VW Jetta on friday (nice car, BTW). Oil spec calls for a product meeting VW 500.00, VW 502.00 or VW 505.01. Note that the VW 500.00 and VW 502.00 specs have been around for 5-10 years already.
Ted

1. Checked the manual for my 96 A4 (B5) with 2.8l V6. No mention of ANY VW spec, just API service and viscosity.

2. However, for my 2005 A4 (B6) 1.8T, there is actually a seperate flier about using VW 502.00 oil, in addition to the owner's manual.

All automotive parts stores in my area are totally ignorant of VW, BMW, etc. spec. oils.

thunderchild · Apr 10, 2005

2001 Audi TT QR 225. I have been using M1 T&S 5w-40. It runs great with this oil and I have had no complaints from the dealer where I have it changed sometimes.

jthorner · Apr 11, 2005

This whole business of customer specification by each manufacturer is one place where the Europeans have really gotten it all wrong.

The Japanese, Koreans and US based companies do not go with this absurd custom oil specification business.

Just one more reason that the European based auto companies are as a whole loosing market share.

John

moribundman · Apr 11, 2005

quote:

1. Checked the manual for my 96 A4 (B5) with 2.8l V6. No mention of ANY VW spec, just API service and viscosity.

I have also a '96 A4 with the 12v motor. The proper oil specs (VW 500.00/ VW 501.00) are mentioned only in the manual's Consumer Information section on page 184.

Because VoA knew jthorner's view, which is probably representative of most American car owners view, they decided to mention in oil section of the US manual only API SF/SG rated oils. Ironically, the oil chart printed on page doesn't really say what columns "A" and "B" really mean. You know that only if you've seen the German manual:

A = full synthetic oils that meet VW 500.00 (VW 502.00 nowadays)
B = multigrade oils that meet VW 501.00

G-MAN · Apr 11, 2005

quote:

Originally posted by jthorner:
This whole business of customer specification by each manufacturer is one place where the Europeans have really gotten it all wrong.

I couldn't DISAGREE more. One size doesn't fit all. If US engine builders would get more involved in specifying the exact lubrication requirements of their engines, we would already be well into longer drain intervals and better oils. This is where Europe is now.

99 · Apr 11, 2005

So the only reason VW specs their own oil classification is for long OCIs? For those of use that don't do long OCIs, what do we care if it meets VW this or that? Most oils pass VW's specs anyways. VW's gas engines are nothing special, at least not special enough to warrant having their own oil classification just to have one. Geez, the 2.0 has been around for umpteem years now and it hasn't changed all that much since it's inception. Was VW spec this or that around back then? Doubt it. VW is just trying to strong arm people into using a limited product base in my opinion. I'm not buying it...not unless I had the 1.9 diesel....they do appear to need the VW spec oil for their injection system.

williar · Apr 11, 2005

Most manufacturers have corporate oil specs, such as Ford, GM, Mercedes, and Toyota. VoA (and AoA) have been rather loose with their specific engine requirements for engine oil; my '02 2.7t Audi owners manual says any API SL-rated oil is OK.

But lately, VW has had to be more specific with some engines, such as the 1.8t and TDI. Most V8s, 3.0s, and 2.8s have loose recommendations.

However, given the long OCIs that are common with VW-corp. cars, I can see why quality synthetics that meet the 503.00, 505.01 ratings are preferred.

Oil Specs for New VW/Audi gas engines

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