Why VW Asked For It

[moribundman]

I just ordered two new keys for my Audi. I ordered them from my VW/Audi dealer in Germany. I'll post about it later today. You will be amazed, I promise. You will find out VW of America charges not double or triple of the price in Europe, but... you'll see.

 

[cven]

IIRC folks that stuck to the 3000 mile OCI did not have many problems even running a dino. The longer recommended OCI is what seemed to cause the problems.

I'm not an expert on these cars so please correct me if I need it.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: Quattro Pete
Yup. Let's just ask all car manufacturers to produce one type of engine for their entire lineup and never ever update its design so that we can just have one Ford oil, one Honda oil, one GM oil, etc. This ought to help the easily confused.

Really now. Don't you find that the vast majority of the rolling population, even those of reasonable intelligence, are almost totally ignorant of what goes on inside the black box with 4 tires?

I mean, what measure of distinction would you have if a common commuter can be at par with you? Just corral you in with all the common appliance drivers ..driving what amounts to fancy refrigerators or dishwashers w/wheels. Don't you consider yourself a "cut above the rest" in terms of "proficient peer group? Aren't you smart enough to own a VW/AUDI?

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: cven
IIRC folks that stuck to the 3000 mile OCI did not have many problems even running a dino. The longer recommended OCI is what seemed to cause the problems.

The risk of oil coking in turbo applications is much higher with mineral oil, regardless of OCI, or at least it was back in those days. Possibly mineral oils have gotten better now, not sure. Personally, I wouldn't run anything but synthetic if I had a turbo engine.

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan

Really now. Don't you find that the vast majority of the rolling population, even those of reasonable intelligence, are almost totally ignorant of what goes on inside the black box with 4 tires?

Certainly. But they should still be able to comprehend English and read the instructions.
If I put hand dish liquid in my dishwasher and cause a bubbly mess, is it the dishwasher manufacturer's fault?

Quote:

I mean, what measure of distinction would you have if a common commuter can be at par with you? Just corral you in with all the common appliance drivers ..driving what amounts to fancy refrigerators or dishwashers w/wheels. Don't you consider yourself a "cut above the rest" in terms of "proficient peer group? Aren't you smart enough to own a VW/AUDI?

I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you calling me stuck up because I actually read my car's owner's manual and know exactly what oil it needs? Is it really too much to ask of others? Appliance or not, it needs maintenance. It's just unfortunate that a lot of VW/Audi dealers in the US don't know how to properly perform it.

 

[Dinosaur]

I have a 2000 Passat 1.8T 5spd manual that I bought new. Back then, VW provided free oil changes for the first two years / 20k miles. I hated taking the car to the stupid dealers in Richmond VA. where I bought it. Not only did they use bulk 5w30 or 10/30, they could not change the oil without overfilling the crankcase. I actually called VWOA and complained that both the local dealers were using non-synthetic oil which did not meet the VW 502.x specs. They took my complaint, but were very non-committal about doing anything about it.

The Magnuson-Moss warranty act says that you do not have to have work perfomed at the dealer unless it is free. So, in order to maintain my warranty, I took the car in for the oil change and then immediately went home and rechanged the oil with Mobil 1.

I am now at 194k mostly trouble free miles.

The only real problem was at around 18 months and 30k miles the airbag light came on. I dropped off the car and waited for them to call me. They called and said that the clockspring and the steering wheel airbag were bad. The repair would be $900.00. I asked if they bench tested the airbag. They did not know what that meant. I then asked how they knew the airbag was bad. They replied that the diagnostic computer told them so. I asked how it could even talk to the airbag if the clockspring is bad. They replied that the airbag must be bad because the computer tells them so. Idiots!. I told them to put a new clockspring in the car and to call me back. They called back an hour later and said "good news' Your airbag is good. The repir is only $300.00.

So, I return for the car and they want $100 for diagnosis, $100 for the part and $100 to install clockspring. I tell them that I am not paying for their faulty diagnosis. After a conversation with the service manager and the dealership general manager it is agreed that their diagnosis was bad and my bill is $200.00

Other than that, the car has been a pleasure to drive and own. I average 29mpg on the ethanol gas we have now, if i can get real 100% gasoline, I average 32mpg. Both figures are calculated from miles/gallons.

oh yeah, the original and replacement clocksprings were made in Japan.

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
I'm not sure what you're getting at. Are you calling me stuck up


Not at all ..but why did you buy an Audi? Did you just like the looks? Just needed a commuter car for the next 3-5 years until the kids were in college or out of college? Slamming away at 40-50 mile commutes in maximum fuel economy for the comfort level that you could tolerate?

No, you bought it because you appreciated the machinery. The handling ..the superior technology ..the precision ..the "aplomb" (the teutonic version of "Confeedence").

Now put this same "engineering excellence" (at any cost in complexity) within the reach of mere mundanes (from an automotive appreciation standpoint) who are just filling out their image ensemble ..and what do you have? People that really should not own the cars ...owning them.

Quote:
because I actually read my car's owner's manual and know exactly what oil it needs?


Well, since all the owners manuals that I've seen are about 250 pages long ..and very boring ..I can't see too many people reading the WHOLE THING and quizing themselves on it. Most people cherry pick stuff on a need to know basis. I would say that most consumers are aware of "frequency of maintenance intervals" ..I doubt that too many understand distinctions in oil selection. That they typically rely on the service provider to handle.

Relax, you're exceptional! Don't fight the designation

 

[Quattro Pete]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
I doubt that too many understand distinctions in oil selection. That they typically rely on the service provider to handle.

That is the root of all evil. You trust someone who is supposed to know this stuff because it's their job, only to find out later that they know less about oil than you do. No argument there.

This goes back to an even deeper problem of people getting ripped off by auto mechanics. You trust that the mechanic knows what needs to be done and you lack sufficient knowledge to argue with him. The industry is full of crooks - some will rape you having full knowledge of the fact; others will do it due to their own incompetence. Therefore, I can't really blame people who ditch their cars as soon as they're off warranty.

Quote:

Relax, you're exceptional! Don't fight the designation

Thanks. Will you also send me flowers?

 

[Gary Allan]

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Now put this same "engineering excellence" (at any cost in complexity)


For a few years I have been waiting for you to point out some of the supposed complexity. I have asked you before what's complex on an Audi compared to any other car, and you have never answered. Please, give me at least one example of the alleged complexity (Besides dealing with ignorant and careless dealerships, which is a complex problem!).

 

[Pablo]

It's a perceived complexity.

 

[Dinosaur]

how about five valves per cylinder for complexity.

 

[Shannow]

Sir Harry Ricardo was doing that in 1927.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Pablo
It's a perceived complexity.


I just want to know what's going on in Gary's mind.

 

[Pablo]

Don't ask. 6-8 pages later, you(he) will still be clueless.

 

[TooManyWheels]

I will make this as simple as possible. I do not own a VW that requires a special oil, so I don't know how the owners manual reads. But if it says something like, "this vehicle requires. 502.xxx.yyy oil", then it is written in code, becuase 502.xxx.yyy is not something familiar to the average person. To the average user that code is even more unfathomable, because unless they know all the OTHER codes, they don't know that 502.xxx.yyy is a DIFFERENT code.

The very first rule of communication is to understand the target audience, and use words, terms and a level of writing that they will understand. So,...did...you...know..what...502.xxx.yyy ...meant...before...you...came...to...BITOG?

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: TooManyWheels
I don't know how the owners manual reads. But if it says something like, "this vehicle requires. 502.xxx.yyy oil", then it is written in code, becuase 502.xxx.yyy is not something familiar to the average person.


Uh, so the average American wouldn't investigate what this mysterious VW spec oil is? Typically careless, uninterested, negligent!

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: Dinosaur
how about five valves per cylinder for complexity.


My Audi V6 has 12 valves total.

 

[crrdvr6]

VW has a problem of not working out all the kinks before the motor goes into production. The first VR6 motors had weak wrist pins IIRC. That problem was corrected before they came to the states.

The issue with first 1.8T motors and sludge came from a combination of an engine with a small oil capacity and filter, 7500,mile oil change intervals conventional and a small diameter turbo feed line that would get clogged with oil sludge. On a small turbo motor this is a recipe for disaster.

VW corrected this problem with a bigger oil filter and re-routing the turbo oil feed line. How effective this is........I don't know. I do see people drive these cars full throttle when cold, trips that do not allow the car to get up to temp and also general lack of mantainence. I have a corrado VR6. 110,000 miles that I drag and autocross. I have used mobil 1 0w40, 15w50, Rotella 5w40 and currently supertech 10w40 with auto-rx clean cycle,(thanks guys for showing me the light), and it runs like new. VW has there stupid issues, plastic parts etc but for the most part are solid cars that need to be maintained.

 

[moribundman]

Originally Posted By: crrdvr6
VW has a problem of not working out all the kinks before the motor goes into production.


That's why I would not buy a new model or a model with a new engine until a few years after it has been released. It's why I chose the simple 2.8 V6 over the then relatively new 1.8T and why I didn't wait a year for the 2.8 30v to arrive.

However, I don't believe the issue with "kinks," especially in regard to the latest designs, is unique to VW.