VW 1.8T vs 2.0T OCI

[akuska]

John_E, the Passat 1.8T had a smaller sump than the Jetta 1.8T.

In any case, I ran a Passat 1.8T on conventional oil for 85k miles before switching to synthetic (before the sludge letters coming out) and then getting rid of the car for other reasons on 5k OCIs.

VW's manual is as unhelpful as always on this one, recommending OCIs of 5K for the first 2, 10k after that, except "more frequently" for "severe service" neither of which are well-defined. However, the service manager at the dealer told me that the 2.0T was designed to run cooler than the 1.8T (although he still recommended 5K OCIs).

I also noticed that VW UK recommends 10,000 mile OCIs for all new VWs, including the 2.0T engine (I don't think the 1.8T is sold there anymore). I don't think sludging was as much of an issue in Europe.

I wouldn't be surprised, though, if we do hear about sludging later on. Dealers don't seem to be very good about explaining VW 502 00 oil (although at least mine uses Mobil 1 0w40 for the standard oil change), and I suspect a lot of unsuspecting people will take their cars to the quick-lube places and put conventional oil in them (VW manuals read like German engineering textbooks, and a lot of people don't read manuals anyway), or at least not VW 502 00 oil even if they do get synthetic.

Pablo, VW is no different from any other European manufacturer with its oil specs. BMW and MB do it as well. BMWs have even fewer "approved" oils available than gasoline-powered VWs. It's just a difference in standards between Europe and the US. Over there the auto manufacturers write oil specs. Over here it is the oil companies.

 

[Pablo]

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Pablo, VW is no different from any other European manufacturer with its oil specs. BMW and MB do it as well. BMWs have even fewer "approved" oils available than gasoline-powered VWs. It's just a difference in standards between Europe and the US. Over there the auto manufacturers write oil specs. Over here it is the oil companies.

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Of course I know how Euro standards are derived - sheesh

As silly as "approved" oils are I don't have a problem with them until automakers turn the approval process into a profit center. My main problem two fold: 1) the average consumer has to wade through the VW ** (and somehow keep current) or the warranty is out the window and 2) VW trying to fix design errors and screw the consumer by changing the specs applicable to the car after purchase.

 

[moribundman]

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As silly as "approved" oils are

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"Approved" oils are not silly. Carmakers and oil manufacturing companies work together in developing tailored oils. Those oils are freely available and nobody has to buy them from the dealer.

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My main problem two fold: 1) the average consumer has to wade through the VW ** (and somehow keep current) or the warranty is out the window

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No wading required. Reading the manual will suffice.

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2) VW trying to fix design errors and screw the consumer by changing the specs applicable to the car after purchase.

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No, VWoA was sloppy and didn't tell the NA consumer what oil Volkswagen AG requires. Only after engines went toes up after getting the wrong oil from US VW dealers, VWoA began following Volkswagen AG guidelines. VWoA did the screwing up.

 

[Pablo]

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No wading required. Reading the manual will suffice

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And the purpose of this thread is?


PS Please quote my entire sentence. Thanks.

 

[moribundman]

Pablo, I'm glad to see you stuck to the topic in this thread.

Quote the whole sentence? Sure:

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As silly as "approved" oils are I don't have a problem with them until automakers turn the approval process into a profit center.

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Show me the profit center.

 

[moribundman]

Sticking to the topic of this thread: the 2.0T engine has direct fuel injection, which may well have a big effect on oil condition and which may at least partially explain the longer OCI.

Due to some changes from the Euro version, the US version, which is not fully utilizing all the features the Euro version offers, the US version specs VW 502 oil while the Euro version requires low-SAPS VW 504 oil. I believe it's due to the lacking US fuel quality that a change to the ECU software and oil requirements was made.


The 1.8T design is over 12 years old and hardly cutting edge at this time. I don't think the 1.8T and 2.0T are comparable engines.

 

[Pablo]

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Show me the profit center.

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DC ATF springs to mind.

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And the purpose of this thread is?

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Rhetorical question. The purpose was to clarify the owner's manual, which is so clear to the average joe. Your real answer is excellent, btw.

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No, VWoA was sloppy and didn't tell the NA consumer what oil Volkswagen AG requires. Only after engines went toes up after getting the wrong oil from US VW dealers, VWoA began following Volkswagen AG guidelines. VWoA did the screwing up.

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I rest my case.

 

[Alan]

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Originally posted by moribundman:
Sticking to the topic of this thread: the 2.0T engine has direct fuel injection, which may well have a big effect on oil condition and which may at least partially explain the longer OCI.

Due to some changes from the Euro version, the US version, which is not fully utilizing all the features the Euro version offers, the US version specs VW 502 oil while the Euro version requires low-SAPS VW 504 oil. I believe it's due to the lacking US fuel quality that a change to the ECU software and oil requirements was made.


The 1.8T design is over 12 years old and hardly cutting edge at this time. I don't think the 1.8T and 2.0T are comparable engines.

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Well they both have something in common,they both have turbos!
VW(and BMW)once again like their lame lifetime transmissions are just trying to push that "low maintenance" appeal to the customers ala "look honey OC's every 10K,whoopee!".

 

[pva]

I think the golf/jetta/beetle 1.8T had a after run electric coolant pump that circulated coolant around the turbo after engine shut off while the passat/audi a4 did not.

Also what is the oil spec for the 2.0 FSI? 502.00 or 505.01? i think these would go a long way towards the sludge problem.. and they may have reinstated the after run coolant pump for all 2.0 FSI applications.. anybody knows?

 

[CosmicFlash]

I've ran 8-9,000 mi. OCI's on my 99' Pasat 1.8T with the small filter and have no problems. Use Valvonline Synpower 5W 40. Did an UOA at 100,000 and was fine. Now have 130,000 miles.

 

[The Critic]

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Show me the profit center.

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I don't disagree that the VW-approved oils require most effort and awareness on the part of the consumer, but I'd agree that they are a bit more difficult to find but are definitely not dealer-exclusive items. Kragen's and AutoZone both have Mobil 1 0w40 and Castrol 0w30 respectively for the 502.00 application.

Ironically, I can buy Castrol 5w-40 at any of my local dealerships for $5/qt...$1/qt less than the Mobil 1 0w40 sold at the local auto parts store, so not all dealers are crooks...

Back on topic...

I'm not familiar with the 2.0T engine, but VW may've made modifications to the engine in the design process to allow it to run 10K drain intervals on the proper oil without issues. But logically, 10K shouldn't be a big deal for a the good 502.00 approved oils.

 

[Pablo]

"Profit center" could be three-fold when speaking of an automobile manufacturer's licensed oils:

1) Making profit on the licensing process itself. Amsoil, as far as I can tell, considers this essentially blackmail. For example, actual tests, paperwork, etc costs $200,000. Company charges $500,000 for license.

2) Product to be officially licensed, requires actual formula, or ingredient, which is controlled or solely owned by said automotive manufacturer. Amsoil considers this on par with hostage taking.

3) Manufacturer is only seller of said licensed product.

Too me, this is "silly". Not in the cutsie kinda way, just stupid silly. I was not accusing VW of #2 or #3, but rather #1.

Just wanted to clarify my "profit center" quip.

 

[LarryL]

Are we talking about the same VW's that fill CR's list of most unreliabile cars on the US market? One saving grace is the 5-year checkup. They are not last, Cadillac and MB are at the bottom. For the worst models of each year between 1998 and 2005, CR picked 9 models and VW took 4 of those slots. And for the percent with problems, VW was the only one to hit the 70's, and did it twice. Their best rating in the back of the New Car issue is the Beetle, at "Worse than average". I guess that's why there are so many postings, here, about VW's and engine oil. If you own one of these cars you'd better read the manual, buy cookies for the service manager, document everthing, never miss anything to do with maintenance and pick the correct oil, one that is named by VW as suitable.

 

[wavinwayne]

LarryL,

Here's something you might find funny; From 2001-2003 (my pre-BITOG days), I was driving a 1992 Chevy Beretta. It was having some problems, & my wife talked me into buying a newer, "more reliable" car, so I purchased..............a used 2000 Volkswagen GTI 1.8T.

At least it lead me to BITOG, & forced me to learn how to choose the correct oil for my rides.

 

[John_E]

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... But logically, 10K shouldn't be a big deal for a good 502.00 approved oil.

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Even with a turbo and city driving?

 

[Mud]

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Originally posted by thunderchild:
I am going to switch my 1.8T over to Shell Rotella T Synthetic 5w-40. A good oil with a strong add pack. For our engines, this would be a great oil. Keeps all the innards real clean.

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I just went with the Rotella T on the last oil change I did on the A4, same thinking as yours. Still going with the shorter 4.5K OCI's oil though - cheap insurance.

 

[Dani]

I have a 2002 Passat 1.T with 50k miles. For most of my oil changes I use Mobil 1 0w-40. My warranty expired now and I want to stop going to the stealership for my oil changes. I just went to Walmart and got a synthetic oil service for $40 which I was happy about. How important is it for me to use the Mann filter or is it OK if I use a cheaper Fram filet which Walmart provides me with? It is a bit of a hassle to go and purchase the expensive Mann filters. I know they are rated at 30k km/20k miles, but I change my oil every 5k miles/6 months whichever comes first.
Also, what is UOA? Some kind of test? Where can I get it done and how?

Thanks,
Dani
(don't mean to highjack the thread - just a newbie)

 

[AndyH]

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Originally posted by Dani:
I have a 2002 Passat 1.T with 50k miles. For most of my oil changes I use Mobil 1 0w-40. My warranty expired now and I want to stop going to the stealership for my oil changes. I just went to Walmart and got a synthetic oil service for $40 which I was happy about. How important is it for me to use the Mann filter or is it OK if I use a cheaper Fram filet which Walmart provides me with? It is a bit of a hassle to go and purchase the expensive Mann filters. I know they are rated at 30k km/20k miles, but I change my oil every 5k miles/6 months whichever comes first.
Also, what is UOA? Some kind of test? Where can I get it done and how?

Thanks,
Dani
(don't mean to highjack the thread - just a newbie)

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1) I wouldn't use a Fram on your Passat. I'd purchase a 5-pack ($28.95) or 10-pack ($55.95) of the OEM filters online from ECS Tuning:
http://www.ecstuning.com

2) Blackstone Labs is a popular lab to have a Used Oil Analysis performed. They are a site sponsor here too. Here's their web site:
http://www.blackstone-labs.com

 

[Thermo1223]

I also wouldn't use Walmart because Supertech Synethic is far from what a Passat requires.

There was something I read not to long ago about the 2.0t's injection system.

Basically the jist of it was the higher the octance used the better performance and get this the better fuel economy. I wish I could find the article.

The way it works is the longer the car stays in a lean burn(aka Stratified Injection) the less fuel it uses. This also generates a lot of heat and Nox, once the car senses the excess heat and Nox in the exhaust exceeding design limits it cuts back to regular fuel injection. It keeps doing this off & on to try and save fuel on a cruise situation.

From what I read it isn't really noticable either but if you use higher octane fuel and drive the same as before you might see an increase in economy although with the extra power it may be hard to tell.

 

[Dani]

Thank for the info. I used mobil 1 even at walmart, not their synthetic. I just wanted to know how important it is to use a Mann filter if I am still changing the oil every 5k.
Dani