why not use syntec 5w50?

[oilrecovery2003]

You know, I was browsing the virgin oil samples for the upcoming summer months. I came across the syntect 5w50, which post a kick *** additive package. Now, do we not use it because it is not a "real" synthetic. WHat the hell is real? Real to me is an oil that will protect my engine the best. And frankly I think they may be right when they say, no other oil can compare. I am not going to NOT use an oil just because of this whole synthetic war. I just can't believe the numbers on that oil.

 

[moribundman]

I'm wearing my flame suit now... I used Syntec 5W-50 for about 100k miles in my '96 Audi (2.8 V6 12 valve). My engine is clean and shows no signs of unusual wear. When I showed the camshafts with the valve cover off on this forum, I was told it looked like the motor had only 20k miles on it. I used that oil under ambient temps from 20 to 110 degree F. I also used a 10k miles oil change interval, and my oil consumption was very little. 1/3 of a quart to keep it topped off between oil changes. I can totally recommend Syntec, IF you don't mind dishonest advertising. For years, I thought I was using a full synthetic oil. I had no idea I was running hydrocracked juice, and THAT bugged me. My problem is not with the oil's performance, which in my opinion is excellent, but with the court-sanctioned mislabeling of the product. Syntec 5W-50 is very good oil. That it's a hydrocracked oil would not deter me from using it. It's also A3 rated. [ January 17, 2004, 07:08 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[oilboy123]

I was checking out the Exxon Mobil 1 sight they have a magizine article about that whole Castrol thing. Gives the opinion of the writer. I think it was a Motortrend or Car & Driver article. I agree that the oil is probably fine, but they should have told people about the change. Comes down to ethics.

 

[Yuk]

I'm going to do Moribundman one better. I'm going to douse myself in fire retardant foam... and say: Castrol did not lie! If it walks like duck, talks like a duck ...... Its a Duck. Syntec’s additive package is like many PAO synthetics, it protects like many PAO synthetics and lasts as long as many PAO synthetics. In fact many UOAs have shown Syntec in some applications can be superior to competitor's PAOs. Based on these results Castrol felt comfortable calling their oil synthetic. Their "bluff" was called and they won fair and square. I became a Syntec user over other PAO brands because of it's price/performance advantage. Syntec has always been (at least where I live) the least expensive, quality oil I could find. I don’t hear many people crapping on other brands of non-PAO synthetic, even though they cost as much if not more than Syntec. In fact it seems most people think there is a solid place for these “quasi-synthetics”. I don’t think Castrol is being treated fairly. Now please feel free to flame away....

 

[TSoA]

Well, 5w-50 Syntec is the oil of choice at my Bosch Service Center. Several drums of it at all times. This place is no joke, factory-style service and full race preps on heavily boosted Porsches and Audis. A top-tier shop, and the floor is littered with blown engines that my mechanic claims were raced on Mobil 1 15w-50. He states the Syntec handles the overboost situations better than anything, I have no reason to doubt him. His car is an S6/RS4 running 26lbs of boost.

 

[427Z06]

I have an '89 Toyota Supra that I bought new. Tried running M1 5w-30, 10w-30, 15w-50 in it after break-in, however it would use a 1qt every 2K-3K miles which really bugged me since it was new and pampered from day one. In short, I experimented with many oils and finally settled on Syntec 5w-50. Only oil I tried that would do a 5K OCI without requiring any top off oil. I still have the car and with 125K miles of Syntec 5w-50 in it, it's still running strong. I may do a UOA on it some day just for kicks and giggles.

 

[TECH]

BMW uses Syntec 5w30, or TWS 10w60 at the dealers.

 

[Yuk]

So much for the dreaded flame?!

 

[JohnBrowning]

5W50 Syntec is a group III oil. Group IV/V oils are true synthetics but that is another topic. The 5W50 Syntec is loaded with viscosity improvers. VII's are not good for an engine and do nothing to help lubricate it. The 5W50 does not have the greatest HTHS numbers either and all of the UOA usualy show it shearing badly on typical drains recomended by OEM's. It is grossly over priced for what you get. If you want to use Castrol Syntec try to find the 0W30 Syntec made in Germany! It at least contains some true synthetic componets. If you want a 5W40 synthetic that is truly synthetic look into Delvac 1, Redline, Motul, TOrco, and Penrite all make 5W40 that we know are a blend of PAO and Ester base stocks. Castrol makes a good product but they grossly over charge the consumer for what you get. You can get alot more for your money else were! If it has to be available localy try Walmart and Rotella T-Synthetic 5W40. It is at least as good as Syntec and is only $12 wich is much more resonably then the $24-$28 that Castrol wants for Syntec.

 

[Shannow]

quote:

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Originally posted by Yuk: I'm going to do Moribundman one better. I'm going to douse myself in fire retardant foam... and say: Castrol did not lie! If it walks like duck, talks like a duck ...... Its a Duck.

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No probs. depends on how far the truth stretches, doesn't it ? I won't (personally) buy their products, or in particular, their "synthetics" downunder.....mostly because of this, but also their spec sheets are next to useless. I do buy their products when I order a truck load of turbine oil. But there's other factors at play, like competetive tendering against a specification.

 

[Flimflam]

quote:

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Originally posted by TSoA: Well, 5w-50 Syntec is the oil of choice at my Bosch Service Center. Several drums of it at all times. This place is no joke, factory-style service .....the floor is littered with blown engines....... on Mobil 1 15w-50.

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First off, let me say I agree with you 100% when you tell of blown engines on that dreadful M*1 stuff. That "M" stuff just eats up engines, period. Secondly, while I like Castrol [see UOA "Suzuki Sidekick"] and have used dino GTX for 25 years, I must say 5w-50 seems to be a little too ambitious a range for a non-ester, non-PAO oil. May I suggest you guys try any of the Castrol HM oils, Castrol Syntec Blend, or even Castrol GTX 20w-50? Keep up the good work, racing with Castrol motor oils. I will not say 'may you never blow up a motor,' because I know you won't blow up. Grenading motors are a problem for the M*1 crowd.

 

[Shannow]

There's an opportunity for you guys to take photos of the fields full of blown motors and get one of the sensationalist current affairs shows to demonstrate the evils of "the world's finest motor oil". Would make good T.V., would make a lot of us wiser, and would make you a few bucks. So ante up with the fields of blown motors.

 

[moribundman]

It's funny and a tad sad to watch how the original topic has been successfully derailed. Lets turn this into another M1-blows-engines-and-5W-50-is-garbage post. All sides will be pleased with a productive catfight. If anyone would like to help me out here, maybe he could point me to some Castrol 5W-50 UOAs, because I can't find any with this abysmal search engine. John Browning, do you know where I can find those terrible UOAs on Syntec 5W-50?

 

[427Z06]

quote:

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Originally posted by JohnBrowning: 5W50 Syntec is a group III oil. Group IV/V oils are true synthetics but that is another topic. The 5W50 Syntec is loaded with viscosity improvers. VII's are not good for an engine and do nothing to help lubricate it. The 5W50 does not have the greatest HTHS numbers either and all of the UOA usualy show it shearing badly on typical drains recomended by OEM's. It is grossly over priced for what you get. If you want to use Castrol Syntec try to find the 0W30 Syntec made in Germany! It at least contains some true synthetic componets. If you want a 5W40 synthetic that is truly synthetic look into Delvac 1, Redline, Motul, TOrco, and Penrite all make 5W40 that we know are a blend of PAO and Ester base stocks. Castrol makes a good product but they grossly over charge the consumer for what you get. You can get alot more for your money else were! If it has to be available localy try Walmart and Rotella T-Synthetic 5W40. It is at least as good as Syntec and is only $12 wich is much more resonably then the $24-$28 that Castrol wants for Syntec.

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I'm curious. Have YOU used this oil in any car YOU owned, or, are you just regurgitating everything you've read here? Not that this would be the first oil I would recommend to anyone trying to find the "right" oil for their engine/climate/driving style, but hey, the internet wasn't even on anyone's radar scope when I was experimenting, let alone all the oils you mentioned. Come to think about it, I didn't see any GC, Delvac1, Redline, Motul, Torco or Penrite when I was in Wally world today. I don't think everyone is willing to scour the earth for a few less PPM in there UOA.

 

[Motorbike]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: If anyone would like to help me out here, maybe he could point me to some Castrol 5W-50 UOAs, because I can't find any with this abysmal search engine. John Browning, do you know where I can find those terrible UOAs on Syntec 5W-50?

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When searching for a topic I find changing the selection from " entire message " to " subject only " works well for me . Here are the only two Castrol 5/50 UOA's and both are in domestic engines with over 5k miles on the intervals . Chevrolet Caprice : http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000329 Ford Econoline van : http://theoildrop.server101.com/cgi/ultimatebb.cgi?ubb=get_topic;f=3;t=000081 [ January 18, 2004, 07:33 AM: Message edited by: Motorbike ]

 

[Shannow]

quote:

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Originally posted by moribundman: It's funny and a tad sad to watch how the original topic has been successfully derailed. Lets turn this into another M1-blows-engines-and-5W-50-is-garbage post. All sides will be pleased with a productive catfight.

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LOL, to add fuel here, M1 downunder is mostly 5W-50.

 

[moribundman]

Thanks Motorbike, I just hate to ask for directions, but I lack search skills. Alas, those two UOAs on the Syntec 5W-50 can't be all those bad ones to which John was referring. Not to mention, that former black and white had probably a clapped-out engine. If 5W-50 were as bad due to the wide spread as some claim, how on Earth did it get the A3 approval? Aren't oils tested before and after running them? I presume the oil must have been within specs at the end of the test, or it wouldn't have gotten A3 approval. Shannow, they have M1 5W-50 in Europe, too. I guess, they think the spread is not too wide?

 

[haley10]

I guess the reason not to use it is so few manufacturer's recommend this viscosity range or grade nowadays. I like Castrol and Mobil products. Can't get the best if you don't have an openmind and hold grudges.

 

[JohnBrowning]

Yes, I have used it in many vechiles. I was a big fan when it first came out. I was also more then a bit upset when they changed it from a true PAO oil to the lousy Group III. I never said that it had lousy UOA or that it has ever caused any damage to an engine due to it being a group III. What I said was that it shears badly over the course of a typical OCI! I also said that you could get Shell Rotella T Synthetic for a lot less and that it was at least as good as Castrol Syntec!! My family used Castrol oil almost exclusively since the 60's! I gree up with a single brand of oil in the house and that was Castrol! I used GTX for long time! When they released Syntec I hoped right on board. I have even had a cam failure while useing Syntec but I never blamed the oil!I even had a set of lifter on a different vechile go bad but I did not blame the oil! I used Castrol Syntec 5W50 in three different vechiles off and on from 1992 to 1998 in a 1985 Ford Tempo, 1986 Toyota 4Runner and a 1982 Toyota Starlet. If anyone thinks Castrol 5W50 Syntec is so hot do a UOA of it then run M1 15W50 and do a UOA. See for yourself! I am sure that after 7500 miles the difference will be clear. I do not choose to pay $4.97 for group III oil when I can get PAO group IV M1 for $3.89 a quart! Their are Syntec listing in the UOA. I belive Dr. T runs this a lot. Their is also a syntec blend 10W30 report. Their are some GC reports as well. You might also recall that I have 10W30 Syntec Blend in my wifes buick after I repaired the intake. It was on sale so I am trying it out. I have also posted recently that my Dad has 15W40 Syntec blend in the Garden tractor on sale as well. SO any anti castrol ideas can be laid to rest. I tell it like I see it. If you want to belive that the sun rises and sets with Castrol go a head but UOA do not lie and the 5W50 does not hold up as well as cheaper oils! The ASTM testing done by Amsoil also show Castrol 5W50 to be less then supior! TSOA always trys to spew his Mobil-1 blows engines garbage every chance he gets but offers no proof! He will not even do a UOA of his precious 5W50 or 5W40 then run M1 15W50 for comparison. That preety much says it all right there! On the other hand I run a plethora of oil! Redline, M1,Amsoil,Castrol, Chevron Supreme...... I challange anyone to prove that M1 15W50 in applications that can use it have been cuased damage from the base stock or any additive in the oil itself! How do you explain the hundreds of thousands of vechiles running M1 or that have run M1 for hundreds of thousands of miles with no failure! How do you explain all the GM,MB AMG,Dodge..... vechiles that come filled with M1 from the factory not self destructing! How do you explain all of the excellent UOA of M1 in all weights here at bitog? If anyone wants more UOA of Syntec maybe they should try it and send a sample off for testing. I am after all going to do two UOA of Redline 5W40 primarly to get more UOA of this oil for the board. I had not planed on running Redline at all but decided we needed more UOA of this oil on the site! buster did the same thing! I convinced him to try it and he did. He did it mostly for the board as well because he had not intended on useing Redline.

 

[haley10]

Preaching to the choir here JohnBrowning. I'm running M1 after Castrol for 30 years. M1 is a good product.