why not use syntec 5w50?

[TSoA]

quote:

---

I challange anyone to prove that M1 15W50 in applications that can use it have been cuased damage from the base stock or any additive in the oil itself!

---

I have my proof...one of a few custom built 944Ts sitting with the track cards still tapped to the window, blown engine siting next to it, WITH MY OWN EYES a 5q jug of red-label Mobil 1 visible through the hatch area AND the mechanic who specializes in these cars R-I-G-H-T T-H-E-R-E saying "Mobil 1 sucks"... what more "proof" does it take? On Audis, he downloads the CPU log and under the same peak boost conditons...the M1 cars blow, Syntec engines do not...the guy sees this with his own eyes. Lower pressures reported too, after a warm-up lap waiting for a green, the M1 15w-50 works POORLY. Should I argue with a respected guy who does this for a living? Case closed for me, I can actually trust someone who is this qualified.
My mechanic, who has a dry sense of humour, also said.."if anyone disses Syntec, remind them that several top VW engine builders use...Valvoline". In other words, most people don't know shyt, even if they think they do.

[ January 18, 2004, 05:19 PM: Message edited by: TSoA ]

 

[JohnBrowning]

You know if people do not want to hear other people opions on a subject they should not ask the question!! I do not belive any oil if used in the proper application is going to cause engine failures!!

Obviously their are going to be some oils that will hold up better then other under extreme conditions.

It is always some knuckle head with a HP street car that thinks he can race his car like a race preped vechile and get long life with no mechanicaly failures. Then if he breaks something it must of been the oil! To make matters worse their are tech.'s that will stroke these idiots ego's to keep their bussiness!

I would love to know how the tech. knows exactly whaqt oil is in the car with absolute 100% reliability. I would also love to know the means by wich M1 is causeing engines to blow.

I think I am going to email Exxon Mobile about this and see what they have to say! You would think that this problem with M1 oil blowing all these engines that this Bosch service center see's would have been reported to EM! I just hope they can stop laughing long enough to answere me when I tell them that This service center claims Castrol 5W50 out performs their 15W50!

P.S. TSOA, What is the name of this service center? DO you have a phone number for them. I am going to call them from work! Is their anyone in particular I should ask for? Thanks!

 

[eldawg4100]

i will not believe 1 bit that mechanic. See i work at a dealership also and we have one of the best porsche techs in the COUNTRY. Now, I dont talk to him but all our porsches get 0w-40, I have never seen them rebuilding a newer engine, even the 911 turbo the comes in for service, with GT-2 HP, numerous mods pushing nearly 600 HP.

I just dont buy it. all the MB amg models, v-8 supercharged and v-12 twin turbo, all get 0w40 with nary a problem.

(oh and the porsche M1 0w40 is changed at 15k lol)

 

[Silverado]

What about Syntec's other grades such as the 40wt??? I have only read about (and use) the 0w-30 GC oil. But its generally talked about like a completely different brand. I'm looking for a 40 wt, but dont know if the Castrol is even any good.

 

[Shannow]

TSoA,
could you get the guy to tell you what the failure mode is when the M1 causes the engine to "blow" ?

I think a blown engine on the floor is a lot less useful for analysing the failure mode than a disassembled engine on the bench.

 

[moribundman]

Jeez, now everyone gets their panties in a twist. What an emotional crowd...

quote:

---

I never said that it had lousy UOA or that it has ever caused any damage to an engine due to it being a group III. What I said was that it shears badly over the course of a typical OCI!

---

John, where are those UOAs that show the 5W-50 shearing badly? I told you, I can't find any, and I've tried. Maybe you could cite your source? And I don't know about you, but "shearing badly" means "bad UOA" to me, no matter if wear was actually high or not. After all, how would the wear numbers look if someone were to run an engine with badly sheared oil at high temps and under high load?

By the way, I never said Castrol 5W-50 was "so hot." I sad it was a very good oil. How can it get ACEA A3 approval, if it really shears so badly that it will be out of spec?

Also, I don't care if TSOA claims M1 blows engines. That sweeping statement in itself is silly to me. I'm not surprised more Audi engines grenade, because many Audi drivers run their engines hard, and many use the WRONG spec oil, including the dealers. I know my Audi dealer switched from using Mobil to Castrol synthetics (including 5W-50). You can call them and ask them why they switched, if you want: Sonnen Motors, in San Rafael, CA (414-456-9040). I have no idea why they switched, because I stopped going to the dealer altogheter. Maybe TSOA's mechanic has become paranoid and insists on using an A3-rated oil that seems to perform well?

I really don't like how this thread has become about the same old, beaten-to-death multiple times, horse. TSOA threw out the bait, and everyone went for it. Congrats!

[ January 18, 2004, 08:26 PM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[sprintman]

Aston Martin only uses the 'blow up' oil. Sure are a lot of dopey manufacturers out there!

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

oilrecovery, I don't see any reason not to run this oil, unless you're a bit leary of the thickness once it warms up. If the 2 afforementioned UOA's have anything to say, it looks quite good! While, it's not PAO, but if the shoe fits....

Is it worth $4.47 per quart? If you like it, and it provides you good service, then yes, it's worth it. Enjoy!

Does it keep engines from blowing up? Perhaps, but evidence would surely help prove that a Group III is more robust under 1.75 bar of boost compared to a PAO oil. I think any oil keep engines from blowing up, including the SuperTedch stuff at WalMart.

 

[buster]

What car is this going in? I see no reason to run any 50wt oil in a modern engine.

 

[Drew99GT]

I've known many DSM owners, and turbo Honda guys running Mobil 1 in various weights, and never a problem, even in cars running 25 pounds of boost on stock longblocks (DSM) pushing over 400hp. However, there have been a few people who posted on hondatech of blown engines using Mobil 1 while road racing. I attribute that to a stock oil pan without baffling/trap door to keep oil in the sump right around the pickup. Could have happened with any oil, but we'll never know. All I know is there are more cars with insane power using Mobil 1 and not blowing engines than Castrol Syntec. Castrol Syntec bonds to engine parts

But nothing beats Mobil 1

 

[sprintman]

Mobil would have probably 70+% of the 'real' syn market here with M1 5W50. Over all types dino/fleet/syn etc then 10W40 just ahead of 15W40 the largest seller viscosity wise (from Mobil tech line this afternoon). 10W30 on the up for the newer vehicles.

 

[jsharp]

quote:

---

Originally posted by moribundman:
Jeez, now everyone gets their panties in a twist. What an emotional crowd...

quote:

---

I never said that it had lousy UOA or that it has ever caused any damage to an engine due to it being a group III. What I said was that it shears badly over the course of a typical OCI!

---

John, where are those UOAs that show the 5W-50 shearing badly? I told you, I can't find any, and I've tried. Maybe you could cite your source? And I don't know about you, but "shearing badly" means "bad UOA" to me, no matter if wear was actually high or not. After all, how would the wear numbers look if someone were to run an engine with badly sheared oil at high temps and under high load?

By the way, I never said Castrol 5W-50 was "so hot." I sad it was a very good oil. How can it get ACEA A3 approval, if it really shears so badly that it will be out of spec?

Also, I don't care if TSOA claims M1 blows engines. That sweeping statement in itself is silly to me. I'm not surprised more Audi engines grenade, because many Audi drivers run their engines hard, and many use the WRONG spec oil, including the dealers. I know my Audi dealer switched from using Mobil to Castrol synthetics (including 5W-50). You can call them and ask them why they switched, if you want: Sonnen Motors, in San Rafael, CA (414-456-9040). I have no idea why they switched, because I stopped going to the dealer altogheter. Maybe TSOA's mechanic has become paranoid and insists on using an A3-rated oil that seems to perform well?

I really don't like how this thread has become about the same old, beaten-to-death multiple times, horse. TSOA threw out the bait, and everyone went for it. Congrats!

---

Motorbike posted links to 2 UOA's, the only two on this board I believe.

In one the viscosity was 95.7, in the other it was 88.5. Where does it start out? The range is listed as (77-88) so I guess it's got some oxidation happening. And neither one was stellar so what's the point of running this heavy oil?

One other thing I might say to all - Please don't feed the trolls. They'll starve if you ignore them...

[ January 18, 2004, 09:26 PM: Message edited by: jsharp ]

 

[427Z06]

JohnBrowning,

I suspect we agree on things more than we disagree. (Mental note to myself: refrain from posting after a 6-pack plus of Anchor Steam is imbibed.)

Of the 3 vehicles I currently own, I use M1 in 2 of them. The J30A1 and the LS6 are fed a diet of M1, however, the 7M-GE just doesn't seem to like M1, way too much oil consumption. When I was experimenting with different oils, Syntec 5w-50 was the only one that curb it's bad consumption habits. The Syntec 5w-50 and 7M-GE combination has worked well for well over 100k miles, and I haven't seen a need to change things. At this stage in it's life I may try Delo 400, or Delvac 1300 to save a little money, since this vehicle only see's a few K miles a year presently, but I remain unconvinced that the Syntec 5w-50 formulation is such an inferior oil that some people make it out to be. Haven't seen a large number of UOA to confirm it's bad rep either. Maybe I'm not searching the UOA database properly? Finally, M1 and Syntec 5w-50 have always been similiarly priced where ever I lived with Wally world generally having the best prices.

As a side note, I think that people who believe that an oil that gives 10ppm of a particular wear metal vs. 20 ppm with another oil means that the former oil will let their engine last 300K miles vs. 150K miles are fooling themselves. I've never seen/read any reasonable scientific study that substantiates this philosophy. Same thing with the "that oil blows engines" mantra. IMHO, UOA are best used to determine OCIs for a particular oil and the associated engine/climate/driving style.

With all that being said, I'm planning to try the GC in the J30A1 and LS6 this summer, just to see how it performs. Patman is a better salesman than he's aware of.

 

[TSoA]

quote:

---

TSOA claims M1 blows engines. That sweeping statement in itself is silly.

---

It is amusing, the "cause" of the engine failure is not the Mobil 1 oil itself, it is the fact the engine was pushed far beyond what the oil could handle. Syntec handled the overboost better than Mobil 1, why is that so unbelievable?

Too much deference to Mogul 1 in the general public, that it becomes "unbelieveable" that another otc 50 weight can simply perform better in this application. I am embarassed for the board members who are so badly brainwashed.

FTR- the engine was partly dissasembled with some broken crank hardware.

quote:

---

Aston Martin only uses the 'blow up' oil.

---

Yeah, I see a lot of Aston Martins at the track, most are running about 40 pounds of boost.

Should we now get into a discussion on Mobil 1's product placment.

[ January 19, 2004, 12:28 AM: Message edited by: TSoA ]

 

[sbc350gearhead]

Tsoa......I think that the problem we all have, is that it is generally accepted that a PAO can withstand higher temps than a GIII, so we have a hard time thinking otherwise. Imagine what you would think if I told you, that you would become more intoxicated by 12 ounces of budwiser, than 12 ounces of pure grain alcohol.

 

[moribundman]

quote:

---

quote: TSOA claims M1 blows engines. That sweeping statement in itself is silly.

It is amusing, the "cause" of the engine failure is not the Mobil 1 oil itself, it is the fact the engine was pushed far beyond what the oil could handle. Syntec handled the overboost better than Mobil 1, why is that so unbelievable? [I dont know] Too much deference to Mogul 1 in the general public, that it becomes "unbelieveable" that another otc 50 weight can simply perform better in this application. I am embarassed for the board members who are so badly brainwashed. [Frown] FTR- the engine was partly dissasembled with some broken crank hardware.

---

Yeah well, from what you've said repeatedly in the past, it always sounds like M1 was the cause for wrecked engines. It's come up over and over. It's like the proverbial dead horse is being dug up and beaten again, over and over, with no end in sight.

I don't know if Syntec 5W-50 handles "over boost" better than other oil, because I don't even know the correlation between boost and the resulting termal and mechanical strain on a motor. I do know that high oil tems and high load lead to low oil pressure and loss of sufficent lubrication. I do know that an oil with higher HTHS will generally provide superior prtection compared to one with a lower HTHS under those circumstances. And I surely know that half of all Audi drivers use oil with specs other than recommended in their motors, You know as well as I do, what people on the AW forums say when the topic of oil comes up: they'll gladly use an A2 rated oil in an engine that requires A3 spec oil, then they go on the track. Then they are surpised their turbos bite the dust after 120 miles. Jeez!

Enough with feeding the trolls. I've run my A4 for almost 100k miles on Syntec 5W-50 without any ill effects. nd I'm someone who redlines his car routinely in 1st and 2nd for prolonged periods. I'm also doing "extended" drains at 10k mile intervals. My engine burns only a trival amount of oil, it's running like new at 130k miles. If Syntec were to shear as badly as has been claimed, I'm sure I would have thrown a rod bearing or lost my crank. And though I'm not fond of the M1 0W-40 that I'm currently using, I don't think I'll blow the engine with it.

And JUST TWO UOAs on Syntec 5W-50 are not going to convince me of anything, especially when those two UOAs aren't even bad!


Enough food for the trolls?

[ January 19, 2004, 01:40 AM: Message edited by: moribundman ]

 

[ToyotaNSaturn]

quote:

---

Enough food for the trolls?

---

Yes, please, enough....I'm tired of hearing about this subject already. The horse is dead and buried.

 

[moribundman]

Yeah really, may the horse rest in peace (or pieces). And for crying out loud, I just noticed all my typos up there!

 

[TSoA]

moribundman, do you even know the HT/HS numbers for these 2 oils?

FYI- nobody is beting a dead horse, no more than you are.

 

[Dr. T]

I agree. I too don't see why not to use Syntec 5-50. The stuff is great for wide temperature ranges, curbs consumption tremendously (over ANY grades of M-1), gives great fuel economy for a 50 weight, engine is quieter that ANY grade of M-1, and keeps engines clean (it smells like Tide laundry detergent for goodness sake).