Why do kids bully?

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
So where are you getting your analysis that a 'very high PERCENTAGE of bullies become cops'? If you're talking percentages, I would assume you've taken a study or have data to support your conclusion? Or could this just possibly be an opinion based on a few bad experiences?


When my sister was doing psychology, she was living in my house.

One of her assignments was why people with sociopathic tendencies tend to be 6 times over represented in positions of authority, over the spread of sociopathic personalities in the general population.

Dunno how MY attitude to authority made my former neighbour say "watch this" as he ran a red , then as the cop bike pulled alongside, flash his badge, get a wave and the bike leaves the pursuit. Dunno how my attitude to authority had him turning up on people's doorsteps in uniform, asking about the unregistered beater on their nature strip.

Also not sure how MY attitude to authority makes them cruise New Year's eve, hooking up with underage drunk girls, or trolling the highwways, blinding people with their lights, then booking people who flash them back.

My amazing (apparent) powers of psychic projection should have earned me buckets of money by now.

 

[andrewg]

The hatred and distrust of our police is much more in evidence than I ever realized. I've learned something here on BITOG.

 

[greenaccord02]

It's funny how everybody keeps saying we (those who are of the opinion that the preponderance of police are bullies) hate police. Very few if any of us hate police. We just think they're poorly adjusted members of society. Like grownup schoolyard bullies.

 

[Gary Allan]

I've met them all. If they're used to dealing with "critters" ..and they think you may be a "critter" with critter issues, they'll tend to dismiss you.

There's a distinct need to keep control of any situation that they're in. I don't object to that need. Now how they accomplish that is often debatable for propriety/appropriateness.

Sir! Stay in your car! Please DO NOT MOVE!

SIT DOWN AND SHUT UP!!

Ideally, I guess, a police officer would act like a robot when encountering someone who is not immediately compliant or otherwise disruptive to the process (whatever that may be). That is, he'd give all the proper prompts and respond in an even manner throughout the encounter to contain the situation.

Unfortunately, they're human and subject to all the ills that the rest of us in terms of potential personality flaws ..or just plain fed up with the day.

I don't think I've met a "mean" cop in my borough. Some will wonder what your story is for a bit and act like they're responding to a common critter complaint (My ho disrespected me type stuff) ..but ultimately do their job for the "productive public good".

OTOH, the next township is very corrupt in management ..and so is their police force.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
My size was always intimidating to some, BGN. It allowed me to be civil and principled.

Cops end up being less capable social workers in today's environment. Now in traffic situations, which I think would be the majority of the encounters that people here are experienced at, you can have most cops being strictly business in either a stern or normal manner.


Alot of them like to do the whole establishing authority schtick, and they have been trained to avoid humanization tactics on your part.

For example if you ask what their name is, introduce your self, ask how they are doing etc.

The reason for this is that humanization would establish a consultative educational relationship vs one of discipline and punishment. That relationship is much simpler to manage (and it produces more revenue).

Quote:
I often smiled to myself when a cop walked up appearing angered at something like an expired emissions sticker. As though shame should be attached to it.


Cops pull that stuff to establish a framework for the interaction in which you are subordinate and defensive.

But you have to be muy careful if you try to change that, since they can get very uncomfortable with that. And when cops are uncomfortable, they get nasty.

For example, see what happens if you take down the cops badge number or get out of the car and stand up to be of equal highet (Just like he is taking down your DL number, and standing taller than you.)

Quote:
You can and do get some local yokel fiefdoms that hire a bunch of yahoo frustrated storm troopers.


State police usually, since in a typical small town obnoxious officers eventually earn enough complaints and there is a close relationship between the civilian power and police power.

 

[ionbeam22]

Quote:
One of her assignments was why people with sociopathic tendencies tend to be 6 times over represented in positions of authority, over the spread of sociopathic personalities in the general population.


Has to do with theories of the authoritarian personality. You want to see really screwed up people look at prison guards, and their spouses/children.

Weak ego structure is also an issue, as within an organized force you can replace some of that (large chunks of that) with externally supplied values, norms and responses. That's IMHO one of the reasons why cops are so uncomfortable with situations they can't control.

 

[froggy81500]

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22
Quote:
One of her assignments was why people with sociopathic tendencies tend to be 6 times over represented in positions of authority, over the spread of sociopathic personalities in the general population.


Has to do with theories of the authoritarian personality. You want to see really screwed up people look at prison guards, and their spouses/children.

Weak ego structure is also an issue, as within an organized force you can replace some of that (large chunks of that) with externally supplied values, norms and responses. That's IMHO one of the reasons why cops are so uncomfortable with situations they can't control.



Well, to a degree, cops need to control a situation because it is their duty to serve and protect. they represent law and order. Not all cops are control freaks, its what they have to do.

What is open to debate, however, is how they go about doing that. Up above I see two different sets of remarks

"Sir please stay in your car"

"shut up and sit down"

Both of those statements are meant to control a situation, but the effectiveness and appropriateness of one leaves much to be desired. the second one. It comes off very confrontational and is not what you should say when trying to maintain control of a situation. Pi$$ing somebody off is not the way to keep control of a situation.

I've said this before in other bloggings I've done. Respect is give and take. Yes, I respect and abide by the law, but if a cop pulls me over and starts it off with an attitude, that person is not entitled to respect IMHO.

And that speaks to a larger societal problem between people and police. You see a growing disconcert between the public and law enforcement. when you keep reading more and more cops getting in trouble with the law or otherwise acting inappropriately, do you think it helps their image?

In my area, there's been several in law enforcement who have been in trouble with the law this year. Back in February, an off duty NYSP investigator was driving home drunk when he was pulled over by another trooper. He got out of his car and confronted the cop because he knew who it was. Eventually he drove off, and went to his house and sat for over 3 hours before turning himself in. that case is still not settled and may be heading to trial soon. Matter of fact the local news had a clip from the dash cam on it.

http://www.wktv.com/news/52544337.html

And this is just one of many this year who have found themselves in trouble with the law. One investigator in the PD in my village got busted for stealing money from the evidence locker and gambling it at the casino. almost $10 grand he got that they know of.

and these are the people who are supposed to be law and order. Scary isn't

 

[Gary Allan]

Quote:
Alot of them like to do the whole establishing authority schtick, and they have been trained to avoid humanization tactics on your part.


Well, one would be wise to be tactful if attempting to disrupt the normal dictatorial process ..granting and acknowledging the authority of the officer/trooper. He may not want to hear it ..and you leave it at that.

Quote:
Cops pull that stuff to establish a framework for the interaction in which you are subordinate and defensive.


Yes. He can waste his time if he wants to inflict guilt upon me for a cast in stone ticketing process

The time in question was when IM wasn't enforced in PA. No one cared. I had my regular inspection sticker. Literally hundreds of instances of crossing paths with rolling officers. They could not have cared less. It was PA's way of "feiting in the general direcion of D.C.". One rookie, being supervised by a senior officer, used it as a "pinch". Even kinda showed his pride in the "ah-ha, you made my day as a plebe officer" smile he had on his face. I'm surprised he didn't engage in "self abuse" right there on the spot for all the internal happiness he was beaming my way. The senior officer was probably annoyed that I gave the plebe an excuse to stop the car. Maybe it was too close to shift change.

What did I care? I was a scoff law (on this issue). I had run around with an expired IM sticker for 3 years. I then scraped it off so that this wouldn't happen again. The surrounding counties didn't have IM (on two borders) so single sticker'd vehicles were all over the place. Not even a blip on the mental radar.

Quote:
But you have to be muy careful if you try to change that, since they can get very uncomfortable with that. And when cops are uncomfortable, they get nasty.


My demeanor was totally passive. I wasn't going to change anything in his manner. I just wasn't going to react to it.

Hand him the documents and wait patiently. If he wanted me to bleed emotionally, he was shopping at the wrong place. This was a traffic citation, not unlawful carnal knowledge. I was guilty. What more can you say?


Quote:
For example, see what happens if you take down the cops badge number or get out of the car and stand up to be of equal highet (Just like he is taking down your DL number, and standing taller than you.)


I surely wouldn't do it today, but in the past I have gotten out of the car and walked back toward the car. It didn't result in any incidents other than getting a ticket as normal.

That was then ..this is now.

Now if I'm stopped (for who knows what - I don't make a habit of doing anything to be written for) ..I may roll down the window a bit (or not if it's my jeep - zippers) and then place my hands on the wheel and wait for him to arrive.

Again, I wouldn't antagonize an otherwise functional cop just doing his job. There are times that I've done something wrong while not being aware and simply state "I can't argue with you" End of story

Some confuse authority with an angry demeanor. That is, one who is the boss ..vs. someone who's just plain bossy.

There really doesn't need to be this whole emotional/anxiety drama involved in these events. A well trained officer controls the entire process without allowing the situation to get out of his control. He should never be frustrated.

I'm very good friends with several retired and current law enforcement officers. I just got back from a weekend at a retired PA state trooper's home who is a recon Marine (Marines are never "former"). The persona that he put forth was one of total confidence. While he surely had an ego, it was one that never needed propping up. It was backed by excellence in execution.

Admittedly, not everyone is going to be this quality of officer.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Gary Allan
Quote:
Alot of them like to do the whole establishing authority schtick, and they have been trained to avoid humanization tactics on your part.


Well, one would be wise to be tactful if attempting to disrupt the normal dictatorial process ..granting and acknowledging the authority of the officer/trooper. He may not want to hear it ..and you leave it at that.

Quote:
Cops pull that stuff to establish a framework for the interaction in which you are subordinate and defensive.


Yes. He can waste his time if he wants to inflict guilt upon me for a cast in stone ticketing process

The time in question was when IM wasn't enforced in PA. No one cared. I had my regular inspection sticker. Literally hundreds of instances of crossing paths with rolling officers. They could not have cared less. It was PA's way of "feiting in the general direcion of D.C.". One rookie, being supervised by a senior officer, used it as a "pinch". Even kinda showed his pride in the "ah-ha, you made my day as a plebe officer" smile he had on his face. I'm surprised he didn't engage in "self abuse" right there on the spot for all the internal happiness he was beaming my way. The senior officer was probably annoyed that I gave the plebe an excuse to stop the car. Maybe it was too close to shift change.

What did I care? I was a scoff law (on this issue). I had run around with an expired IM sticker for 3 years. I then scraped it off so that this wouldn't happen again. The surrounding counties didn't have IM (on two borders) so single sticker'd vehicles were all over the place. Not even a blip on the mental radar.

Quote:
But you have to be muy careful if you try to change that, since they can get very uncomfortable with that. And when cops are uncomfortable, they get nasty.


My demeanor was totally passive. I wasn't going to change anything in his manner. I just wasn't going to react to it.

Hand him the documents and wait patiently. If he wanted me to bleed emotionally, he was shopping at the wrong place. This was a traffic citation, not unlawful carnal knowledge. I was guilty. What more can you say?


Quote:
For example, see what happens if you take down the cops badge number or get out of the car and stand up to be of equal highet (Just like he is taking down your DL number, and standing taller than you.)


I surely wouldn't do it today, but in the past I have gotten out of the car and walked back toward the car. It didn't result in any incidents other than getting a ticket as normal.

That was then ..this is now.

Now if I'm stopped (for who knows what - I don't make a habit of doing anything to be written for) ..I may roll down the window a bit (or not if it's my jeep - zippers) and then place my hands on the wheel and wait for him to arrive.

Again, I wouldn't antagonize an otherwise functional cop just doing his job. There are times that I've done something wrong while not being aware and simply state "I can't argue with you" End of story

Some confuse authority with an angry demeanor. That is, one who is the boss ..vs. someone who's just plain bossy.

There really doesn't need to be this whole emotional/anxiety drama involved in these events. A well trained officer controls the entire process without allowing the situation to get out of his control. He should never be frustrated.

I'm very good friends with several retired and current law enforcement officers. I just got back from a weekend at a retired PA state trooper's home who is a recon Marine (Marines are never "former"). The persona that he put forth was one of total confidence. While he surely had an ego, it was one that never needed propping up. It was backed by excellence in execution.

Admittedly, not everyone is going to be this quality of officer.


Gary, I have to agree with you.

I know that I've been let off the hook many times.

I got caught doing a "test and tune" on the street. I rolled out from a light and around 45mph I nailed it to get some data logging because I was going to the track the next night. Apparently I did so right in front of a cop and the tires broke free so bad that I just let off because the info was invalid at that point. I didn't even break the speed limit. I had my cute little blonde girlfriend with me who hated the GN. The officer pulled me over for breaking traction. He pulled me aside and asked me how embarassing it would be for him to take my car away from me in front of her. I told him she would probably thank him and he laughed and gave me my license back and said not to do it again. That really doesn't sound like someone on a power trip to me.

 

[Loobed]

The worst cops are female. First you have someone who is insecure and needs to prove something, than you have an insecure woman who needs to prove she is equal to men. We have an extremely over weight black woman on the local police force. Can you imagine what she needs to prove to herself.

 

[StevieC]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


The worst cops are female. First you have someone who is insecure and needs to prove something, than you have an insecure woman who needs to prove she is equal to men. We have an extremely over weight black woman on the local police force. Can you imagine what she needs to prove to herself.

Does it involve a fried chicken eating contest?

(J/K)

 

[greenaccord02]

Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Loobed


The worst cops are female. First you have someone who is insecure and needs to prove something, than you have an insecure woman who needs to prove she is equal to men. We have an extremely over weight black woman on the local police force. Can you imagine what she needs to prove to herself.

Does it involve a fried chicken eating contest?

(J/K)

WOAH!!!

 

[MarkC]

White guys don't eat fried chicken, of course.
Certain ones like sausage, I hear.

 

[Shannow]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
The hatred and distrust of our police is much more in evidence than I ever realized. I've learned something here on BITOG.


Don't hate them, but I do distrust them in the majority

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: StevieC
Originally Posted By: Loobed


The worst cops are female. First you have someone who is insecure and needs to prove something, than you have an insecure woman who needs to prove she is equal to men. We have an extremely over weight black woman on the local police force. Can you imagine what she needs to prove to herself.

Does it involve a fried chicken eating contest?

(J/K)

WOAH!!!

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Loobed


The worst cops are female. First you have someone who is insecure and needs to prove something, than you have an insecure woman who needs to prove she is equal to men. We have an extremely over weight black woman on the local police force. Can you imagine what she needs to prove to herself.



We have some insanely hot blonde cops around here. I always try and get them to crack a smile when I pull up next to them. I even asked one at a redlight what I had to do to get pulled over lol.

 

[LTVibe]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
A very high percentage of bullies become cops.

Don't know if that's true for cops, but it is true for criminals:

http://dianedimond.net/todays-bullies-tomorrows-criminals/

Quote:
A study from a group called Fight Crime: Invest in Kids concluded that nearly 60 percent of boys whom researchers classified as bullies in grades 6-9 were convicted of at least one crime by the age of 24. And get this, 40 percent of those same boys grew up to have three or more criminal convictions.

 

[Gary Allan]

The women here are a mixed bag. While not unattractive, grooming on the job is muted/subdued. Most do have lower voices ..which is probably a cultivated thing. They do get a semi-hottie from time to time. They can tell that you're evaluating them from that angle, though ..but since anything with a hard body is my daughter's age... I'm in geezer status ..so what's the point? Long returned looks are a distant memory for me. They do seem to go to the trouble of explaining things better than their counterparts when it comes to perfunctory information.

Again, our P.D. is pretty good for all the critter zones they have to cope with. Practical productive enforcement. Traffic in an urban environment is a different animal compared to the suburban/more rural townships. There the cops tend to handle much larger spans of turf without the support (and check and balance) you have with a sizable urban dept. Their issues are more involved with people passing through the hamlet going somewhere else. This can lead to a "god complex" of sorts. It depends on who's handling them and how much they feel an end justifies a means.

 

[BuickGN]

I've had more trouble with the small town PDs. The one that wrote a completely false report on me was in a very small town. It turns out it was the same cop that had been pulling my friend's sister over and sexually harassing her. When all was said and done (he made a big mistake not knowing what my dad does for a living)he was out of a job but not before I had to defend myself in court for a felony.

 

[Gary Allan]

You can surely get a Barny Fife thing going in a small town. We're a population of 20k ..with a 65 officer police force. It's something like 65% of our budget. The worst (and sometimes the best) are rural townships that experience growth. They may have had a good old boy hamlet that worked well, then got revenue to grow (needs to do so were included). There you have senior officers that may or may not be suitable for promotion getting power ..and a small town chief developing into much bigger dog than he was before. In those situations, the whole power core of the township swells. You've got token pay clerical staff that are now running a bigger show ..etc..etc. So Mable the lady that took your call or told you what the name was of the permit guy/gal, may require an appointment to be reached and may have a disposition that has more "grandeur".

It's always a mixed bag.