Why do kids bully?

[BuickGN]

To the bully question, I think it's one or both of two things.

Low self esteem
Just outright bad people

I've never been a bully, I got pushed around in highschool but always fought anyway. I was little, 5'2" and 100lbs. By the middle of my senior year and tons of dedicated working out I was 6'1" and 225lbs. Those same people that picked on me were the nicest people all of a sudden but I didn't return the favor.

Thinking back on my 20s, I never once picked a fight but never backed down either. I think a lot of it was insecurity. Once I started training, I started backing down and not really caring about proving anything, I guess due to more confidence.

I can't imagine what would happen to a kid or kids if they ever picked on one of mine (future kids lol).

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Exactly....YOUR EXPERIENCE. This is not the 'norm' nor is it typical. Most police that I have dealt with in my 45 years on this planet differs 100% from yours. Perhaps Houston does have a corrupt force, I don't know. But to put out blanket accusations and labels about what cops 'are' (as in bullies) is simply not fair. If Houston has a majority of bad cops I suggest you and others should consult legal means of correction.

So, 45 years among the living is enough to make your opinions not only more valuable, but right and not just more valuable and right, but also the basis for norms?

Cops are bullies. And I figured that out with less than 45 years. But, if you need age, we can be like schoolkids - I asked my dad. He's a whole SIXTY TWO years old and he says they're bullies. And I even asked my grandfather on my mothers side and he's all of SEVENTY-EIGHT and he said... well, I can't tell you on a family friendly site, but he said something very similar.

As you can see, facts work better for arguing than age.


It's all about your attitude and I can see some of it displayed on here. It's no wonder you hate cops.

I have many friends that are cops. I've been on many ride alongs and may still become one. The way the cop acts is directly related to how you act and what you've done.

There are bad ones of course, I've been a victim of that. I had one try and force me to resist arrest by twisting a finger so far that I couldn't take the pain anymore and had to twist out of his hold.

I've had a cop write a false report and charge me with a felony when I got jumped by two guys 6'6" 340lbs and 6'4" and 260lbs while trying to literally run from them. Because I won and the fathers were friends with the cops, I had to defend myself in court when they should've been the ones on trial. It's hard to keep a good attitude but I just remember that there are far more good ones than bad ones.

The point being, they have a tough job and see a lot of bad things and bad people. Just like anyone they might get tired of it.

 

[greenaccord02]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Exactly....YOUR EXPERIENCE. This is not the 'norm' nor is it typical. Most police that I have dealt with in my 45 years on this planet differs 100% from yours. Perhaps Houston does have a corrupt force, I don't know. But to put out blanket accusations and labels about what cops 'are' (as in bullies) is simply not fair. If Houston has a majority of bad cops I suggest you and others should consult legal means of correction.

So, 45 years among the living is enough to make your opinions not only more valuable, but right and not just more valuable and right, but also the basis for norms?

Cops are bullies. And I figured that out with less than 45 years. But, if you need age, we can be like schoolkids - I asked my dad. He's a whole SIXTY TWO years old and he says they're bullies. And I even asked my grandfather on my mothers side and he's all of SEVENTY-EIGHT and he said... well, I can't tell you on a family friendly site, but he said something very similar.

As you can see, facts work better for arguing than age.


It's all about your attitude and I can see some of it displayed on here. It's no wonder you hate cops.

I have many friends that are cops. I've been on many ride alongs and may still become one. The way the cop acts is directly related to how you act and what you've done.

There are bad ones of course, I've been a victim of that. I had one try and force me to resist arrest by twisting a finger so far that I couldn't take the pain anymore and had to twist out of his hold.

I've had a cop write a false report and charge me with a felony when I got jumped by two guys 6'6" 340lbs and 6'4" and 260lbs while trying to literally run from them. Because I won and the fathers were friends with the cops, I had to defend myself in court when they should've been the ones on trial. It's hard to keep a good attitude but I just remember that there are far more good ones than bad ones.

The point being, they have a tough job and see a lot of bad things and bad people. Just like anyone they might get tired of it.

Don't twist my words. I don't hate cops. I think they're bullies, but that doesn't mean I hate them. I would like to see some statistics to back up the common assertion here that there are "more good cops than bad cops." I have met some good (I am defining that as non-bully) cops, but they were the GREAT minority. These are almost without exception people who for whatever reason need to feel that they are in a position of authority or strength. Some of them aren't bullies about it, but most are. Some people have to show how big, strong, and important they are and some don't.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Originally Posted By: andrewg
Exactly....YOUR EXPERIENCE. This is not the 'norm' nor is it typical. Most police that I have dealt with in my 45 years on this planet differs 100% from yours. Perhaps Houston does have a corrupt force, I don't know. But to put out blanket accusations and labels about what cops 'are' (as in bullies) is simply not fair. If Houston has a majority of bad cops I suggest you and others should consult legal means of correction.

So, 45 years among the living is enough to make your opinions not only more valuable, but right and not just more valuable and right, but also the basis for norms?

Cops are bullies. And I figured that out with less than 45 years. But, if you need age, we can be like schoolkids - I asked my dad. He's a whole SIXTY TWO years old and he says they're bullies. And I even asked my grandfather on my mothers side and he's all of SEVENTY-EIGHT and he said... well, I can't tell you on a family friendly site, but he said something very similar.

As you can see, facts work better for arguing than age.


It's all about your attitude and I can see some of it displayed on here. It's no wonder you hate cops.

I have many friends that are cops. I've been on many ride alongs and may still become one. The way the cop acts is directly related to how you act and what you've done.

There are bad ones of course, I've been a victim of that. I had one try and force me to resist arrest by twisting a finger so far that I couldn't take the pain anymore and had to twist out of his hold.

I've had a cop write a false report and charge me with a felony when I got jumped by two guys 6'6" 340lbs and 6'4" and 260lbs while trying to literally run from them. Because I won and the fathers were friends with the cops, I had to defend myself in court when they should've been the ones on trial. It's hard to keep a good attitude but I just remember that there are far more good ones than bad ones.

The point being, they have a tough job and see a lot of bad things and bad people. Just like anyone they might get tired of it.

Don't twist my words. I don't hate cops. I think they're bullies, but that doesn't mean I hate them. I would like to see some statistics to back up the common assertion here that there are "more good cops than bad cops." I have met some good (I am defining that as non-bully) cops, but they were the GREAT minority. These are almost without exception people who for whatever reason need to feel that they are in a position of authority or strength. Some of them aren't bullies about it, but most are. Some people have to show how big, strong, and important they are and some don't.


You are definately right about them, some of the time. Where we disagree is the percentage which I'm sure varies by location.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: andrewg
.but c'mon man, you SERIOUSLY believe such an ignorant statement as 'cops are bullies'?? That really doesn't put a whole lot of value on your opinion, like it or not. Blanketing a very large group of professionals as one thing or another is truly intellectually invalid.


I'll say that the statement most cops are bullies is 100% true. It may in fact be more than "most" perhaps "great majority" would be more accurate.

Lots of cops have a severe chip on their shoulder, and that's not helpful in their relations with the general public. Basicly they get to be on a power trip for much of the day.

Studies such as the stanford prison experiment, have conclusively shown that power (ability to commit violence) turns otherwise healthy people into bullies. It takes great personal strength of character to avoid this.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: greenaccord02
Don't twist my words. I don't hate cops. I think they're bullies, but that doesn't mean I hate them. I would like to see some statistics to back up the common assertion here that there are "more good cops than bad cops."


IMHO people are afraid to do this research for fear of what the results might be...

Quote:
I have met some good (I am defining that as non-bully) cops, but they were the GREAT minority. These are almost without exception people who for whatever reason need to feel that they are in a position of authority or strength.


At the end of the day, your revenge is that these people lead [censored] unfulfilling lives because they know that when the badge and gun comes off, no one respects them.

Quote:
Some of them aren't bullies about it, but most are. Some people have to show how big, strong, and important they are and some don't.


Let's say that someone had a felt need to show big, strong, and important they are, and to be in a position of authority or strength. They would naturally be attracted to a job with such attributes (e.g Cop, prison guard etc) vs one lacking those attributes (e.g Bank teller, Wal*mart greeter, any sort of salesman).

Thus more bullies are probably working as cops than as Wal*mart greeters.

 

[froggy81500]

Blanket statements, people, blanket statements. they are never true. Sure there are some cops who abuse their authority, and, by nature, are bullies, but not ALL cops. I know some, good and bad, but don't paint them all with the same broad brush.

I have a brother who is a CO in a state prison here in NY. He was never the type to be a bully, and matter of factly, he was one to stand up to bullies growing up. He is outgoing and athletic. but more importantly, for a job like his, he is even tempered, a very even keel kind of guy. He doesn't carry himself as a [censored] or a chip on his shoulder. He doesn't go around breaking inmates' nuts because he can because he is on the side of the law. Why poke the dog with a stick? Sooner or later they will bite you, so why provoke? There is no point to it, which is why I could never understand people who do that sort of thing.

Bullies a lot of the time do so because somebody has been picking on them. In schools, a lot of the time you find bullies who's home lives suck. Overbearing, abusive parents. You'll either find that kid very reclussive, or on the opposite, they lash out at the weaker kids to tranfer that abuse on others. One of two things are accomplished by that. Either the bully feels better about themselves, empowered by beating down someone just as someone beats them down. Or, they bring somebody else down to the level they feel even if they get no powerful feeling from it.

 

[froggy81500]

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22


Let's say that someone had a felt need to show big, strong, and important they are, and to be in a position of authority or strength. They would naturally be attracted to a job with such attributes (e.g Cop, prison guard etc) vs one lacking those attributes (e.g Bank teller, Wal*mart greeter, any sort of salesman).

Thus more bullies are probably working as cops than as Wal*mart greeters.


I have known some people fitting that to a "t". they were picked on, bullied as kids. they eventually find their way into law enforcement or corrections so they can be the pr*cks like the people who picked on them. This is an attribute a mental evaluation by law enforcement agencies should weed out. That's not a healthy mindset to have in a position of authority. Its that type of person who will abuse that authority sooner or later.

 

[Vilan]

Seems like there may be a bully or two in this thread...

 

[Gary Allan]

Many were raised with some Lord of the Flies mentality, Vilan. My FIL raised his kids to capitalize to the maximum any superior aspect that they could figure in any encounter. He never tempered it with an baseline respect for anyone. Naturally this meant that they cuddled up to those who were superior (KISS

) and tended to form associations with like people who had similar needs of ego to feel good about themselves. That is, if you can't truly raise the bridge, lower the river.

Some people learn to conduct themselves along the lines of excellence in interactions. Some people found the humanity and civility bins empty in the cafeteria of rearing.

 

[ionbeam22]

Originally Posted By: froggy81500
Originally Posted By: ionbeam22


Let's say that someone had a felt need to show big, strong, and important they are, and to be in a position of authority or strength. They would naturally be attracted to a job with such attributes (e.g Cop, prison guard etc) vs one lacking those attributes (e.g Bank teller, Wal*mart greeter, any sort of salesman).

Thus more bullies are probably working as cops than as Wal*mart greeters.


I have known some people fitting that to a "t". they were picked on, bullied as kids. they eventually find their way into law enforcement or corrections so they can be the pr*cks like the people who picked on them. This is an attribute a mental evaluation by law enforcement agencies should weed out. That's not a healthy mindset to have in a position of authority. Its that type of person who will abuse that authority sooner or later.


This is a very hard task to do, because the authority structure within the LEO community is over represented with "bully" types, who will naturally create an institutional enviroment for their own sucess.

This is why for example C/O unions are such a powerful force against prison reform. Thankfully the proposed "more prisons/more guards" solution is now finally being stopped by economic reality. The system of harsh non-rehabilitative prisons leading to battle tested criminals, which now require more prisons to contain them is unsustainable.

Now where it gets interesting is in what's going on in the US Army. High level folks over there are *very* interested in preventing the next Abu Ghraib type event. Folks understand that better command&control (e.g regulation) is useless at the very tip of the spear. You need people who won't do such things in the first place, and not because they've been told not to do so.

 

[froggy81500]

Originally Posted By: ionbeam22

This is a very hard task to do, because the authority structure within the LEO community is over represented with "bully" types, who will naturally create an institutional enviroment for their own sucess.

This is why for example C/O unions are such a powerful force against prison reform. Thankfully the proposed "more prisons/more guards" solution is now finally being stopped by economic reality. The system of harsh non-rehabilitative prisons leading to battle tested criminals, which now require more prisons to contain them is unsustainable.

Now where it gets interesting is in what's going on in the US Army. High level folks over there are *very* interested in preventing the next Abu Ghraib type event. Folks understand that better command&control (e.g regulation) is useless at the very tip of the spear. You need people who won't do such things in the first place, and not because they've been told not to do so.


Very good post.

Your final point about the military is very true to the point.

 

[mechtech2]

When I said:
Kids bully to bide their time until they can grow up and be cops.
A very high percentage of bullies become cops.


This does not indicate that all or most police officers are bullies. It is the other way around. May bullies have become cops. I have no doubt about it.
Almost as bad as a short cop - lots of attitude problems.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2
When I said:
Kids bully to bide their time until they can grow up and be cops.
A very high percentage of bullies become cops.


This does not indicate that all or most police officers are bullies. It is the other way around. May bullies have become cops. I have no doubt about it.
Almost as bad as a short cop - lots of attitude problems.

So where are you getting your analysis that a 'very high PERCENTAGE of bullies become cops'? If you're talking percentages, I would assume you've taken a study or have data to support your conclusion? Or could this just possibly be an opinion based on a few bad experiences?

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: mechtech2


Almost as bad as a short cop - lots of attitude problems.


LOL. While I totally disagree with you guys that think most cops are bullies I have to laugh at this comment because of the short one on the powertrip with the attitude I almost pounded one time.

 

[BuickGN]

There are certain members that have had problems with the law, it's obvious. When I'm on a ride along I watch as my friend (the cop) always starts with a good attitude. But you have the typical type of person who turns it into a power struggle. I watch as it goes from a conversation to a [censored] contest initiated by the guy who got pulled over. The posters on here with the problems likely have a problem with authority and are bullies themselves who don't like an authority figure telling them what to do.

Two of my best friends, one who's a CHP and one is a local PD were both the nicest guys in highschool and still are some of the nicest people you would ever meet. However, in the face of some know it all confrontational person they have to exert some authority.

 

[BuickGN]

And to add some more, there are certain personality types that just look for trouble and think everyone (like cops) are out to get them. Since I'm a bigger guy, I can think of a few times at work where people have said that I was acting aggressive when I was doing nothing different than the guy next to me.

 

[Gary Allan]

My size was always intimidating to some, BGN. It allowed me to be civil and principled.

Cops end up being less capable social workers in today's environment. Now in traffic situations, which I think would be the majority of the encounters that people here are experienced at, you can have most cops being strictly business in either a stern or normal manner. I often smiled to myself when a cop walked up appearing angered at something like an expired emissions sticker. As though shame should be attached to it.

You can and do get some local yokel fiefdoms that hire a bunch of yahoo frustrated storm troopers. They end up being thugs with badges. In many cases, it's a matter of the type of borough/hamlet/village/township the chief players are in how things are run. That is, the council/board/selectmen ..which are or can be connected to major land owners and whatnot.

Larger organizations usually have this in check. They can't keep a lid on it as easily.

 

[andrewg]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
There are certain members that have had problems with the law, it's obvious. When I'm on a ride along I watch as my friend (the cop) always starts with a good attitude. But you have the typical type of person who turns it into a power struggle. I watch as it goes from a conversation to a [censored] contest initiated by the guy who got pulled over. The posters on here with the problems likely have a problem with authority and are bullies themselves who don't like an authority figure telling them what to do.

Two of my best friends, one who's a CHP and one is a local PD were both the nicest guys in highschool and still are some of the nicest people you would ever meet. However, in the face of some know it all confrontational person they have to exert some authority.

You are probably 100% right about those that call the majority of cops 'bullies' as having issues with authority. I've known more than my share of cop-haters that turn out to be real nasty folks to begin with. It's like they have the little-man syndrome and can't handle being told when they are wrong.

 

[MarkC]

Just because someone finds himself with a little authority doesn't mean they have the right to abuse it.
Having a problem with authority for its own sake doesn't mean you are a cop-hater or have some "little man syndrome"...any more than respecting authority makes you a drone.
There are plenty of cops who are bullies, and plenty who aren't.
Don't want to get bullied by people in general? Don't act like a victim. Acting as if police and soldiers can be excused for doing things civilians wouldn't be is just as stupid as thinking they're all big, bad, bullies.