Why Do Foreign Cars Hold There Value

[Bror Jace]

Brianl703, CR only polls subscribers I believe.

So, you look around and see older Hondas blowing smoke while contemporary domestic small cars are plentiful and in fine condition?

Well, as I attested to above, I don't see that at all. The only Hondas I see that are blowing smoke are very old (12+ years old) and suffering from very obvious neglect. My 1995 Civic saw some very hard use and when I sold it at 132,000 miles, it would go 5,000 - 6,000 miles with the oil level not moving at all on the dipstick despite the fact it say red line at least a few times each week.

The basic problem is these are our perceptions and they are filtered through our own biases. Some are better at filtering these biases out ... but none of us are perfect.

If we had some data showing what percentage of cars from model year 1995, 1994, etc ... are still on the road from each brand, that would be different.

I believe my own experiences with cars along with those of close friends and family over the past 2 1/2 decades (including my stint selling cars ... new & used). They happen to coincide with Consumer Reports and other reliability data and resale value retention.

 

[OVERKILL]

Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....

 

[GMBoy]

Hey! I just saw a vintage Chevy Citation on the road and an 'X-11" model at that!

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....




I used to see the Fox bodies everywhere and now I see one about once a month. Hopefully the nice ones are now in the hands of enthusiasts and sit in garages most of the time.

I remember when they were at just about every stoplight and with the huge rivalry between the Grand National and Mustang, there was a lot of action. I hated them back then since they were the competition. Then one year, 1996, I believe, I was competing in the Buick vs Ford shootout in Bakersfield. That same day was an early battle of the imports. They ended up running the fastest Honda against one of the quicker street driven Mustangs. I found myself cheering for the Mustang which was weird, and ever since the Mustang spanked the full race Honda, I've liked them.

I have a friend that just had to give up his 351W Fox body Mustang (yes, a transplant, but it's been there for nearly the entire life of the car)with just under 10,000 original miles and has never even had a door ding. It is the most perfect Mustang I have seen in recent years. He was pretty bummed, he owned the car since it was new.

 

[Buick92]

I think it's kind of "hit or miss" somtimes, I've seen many Rangers and F150's on the road with well over 200,000 miles, while my 1998 Prizm (toyota) has 85,000 miles and lots of rust, I honestly can't believe a car made 10 years ago has rust on the door panels and sills, the car is orginally from upstate New York but regardless it's disappointing. I've owned numerous domestics and Japanese cars, the Japanese drive trains may be more reliable but based on my own opinion the Japanese cars have their own character flaws. I think that all cars have their own set of issues and draw backs.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....




I used to see the Fox bodies everywhere and now I see one about once a month. Hopefully the nice ones are now in the hands of enthusiasts and sit in garages most of the time.

I remember when they were at just about every stoplight and with the huge rivalry between the Grand National and Mustang, there was a lot of action. I hated them back then since they were the competition. Then one year, 1996, I believe, I was competing in the Buick vs Ford shootout in Bakersfield. That same day was an early battle of the imports. They ended up running the fastest Honda against one of the quicker street driven Mustangs. I found myself cheering for the Mustang which was weird, and ever since the Mustang spanked the full race Honda, I've liked them.

I have a friend that just had to give up his 351W Fox body Mustang (yes, a transplant, but it's been there for nearly the entire life of the car)with just under 10,000 original miles and has never even had a door ding. It is the most perfect Mustang I have seen in recent years. He was pretty bummed, he owned the car since it was new.


Yeah, there are a LOT of guys collecting them. A good friend of mine has had at least seven in the last few years. Many are 4-cylinder parts cars. He currently owns a red GT vert, a black '93 notch with like 20,000 miles on it. It's never been WET!!!! And an '82 Capri with an '89 powertrain and ECM setup in it. Makes 534RWHP, went 10.2 on Pinks-all-out, running out of gear.

There are actually a couple of wreckers up Toronto way that keep JUST Fox body Mustangs. They don't crush them. They are there for parts.

A guy I know has a couple GN's, one of them is immaculate. Really neat cars!!! I like them as well.

A similar story to yours:

We were up at Shannonville Motorsport Park and some loud-mouth with an Eclipse was making fun of one of his buddy's with a Mustang. Saying how he was so glad that he didn't own such a piece of junk... blah blah blah.

He ends up racing his buddy, who beats him. BAD.

Then ends up going up against a good friend of mine's 525RWHP notch. Car went 11.5. The Eclipse went like low 14's. That was a pretty embarassing race for him

His friends were bugging him BAD when he came back

"Man, I sure wish I could own an Eclipse, then I could run my mouth and get beat hardcore by two "slow a$$" Mustangs too!"

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....


There were quite a few Olds Cutlasses made during that time. I think the coffee carts at Olds corporate were even called Cutlasses. Everything else was back then. Best selling car in America for a time.

The foxes vs. the A/G bodies . . . interesting who has more running today. I recall quite a few of the latter being exported to the deep, deep, deep south for "resale", if you know what I mean. Real market value, of a different sort, apparently.

 

[Volvohead]

A colleague of mine had a GN, for one whole day.
He and his wife took it the day after delivery to the mall.
When they went back, it was gone. Never saw it again.

Before Ford got wise, they were decent about honoring warranty on blown Mustang 5.0 liter engines. A friend of mine while working for Ford saw them all the time, mainly kids racing them, and Ford KNEW they had been racing them. Always replaced them under warranty. A standard Mustang with the 5.0 package was cheap thrills back then for sure. I thought the original SHO was also good fun, as you could drive it around corners, too.

 

[OVERKILL]

Volvohead:

The Fox body Mustangs were NOT that bad!

What happens is that guys set them up for drag racing, which, suspension-wise, does NOT work for handling.

DECH made off VERY WELL with Fox body cars. As did Saleen. They could be made to handle just as well as they could be made to drag race. It's simply that they were far more often used for the latter.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: c3po
Guys, are we saying that if someone has a problem with a car, whether foreign or domestic, and they do not take care of the car, they only have themselves too blame.


There are some people that could have the nicest car in the world and 4 years later they've turned it into a pile of [censored].

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace
The only Hondas I see that are blowing smoke are very old (12+ years old) and suffering from very obvious neglect.


I don't consider anything less than 15 years old (which is 1993 and newer models) very old. When you start getting 20 years old then it's very old. A 12-year-old car would most likely have around 150k on it and it shouldn't be burning oil with that mileage!

Quote:
If we had some data showing what percentage of cars from model year 1995, 1994, etc ... are still on the road from each brand, that would be different.


The closest I've seen to that was part of a roadside emissions study that the Virgina Dept. of Environmental Quality did. The reported the number of vehicles tested by model year as a percentage. Vehicles older than 10 years were, as I recall, about 5% of the vehicles tested (this study was done in 2004). They didn't break it down by brand.

I'm sure if you sent a FOIA request to your state DMV asking them for the percentage of vehicles registered for each of the last 15 or 20 model years by make they would supply that information, although they could charge for the time they spend compiling it.

Quote:

Brianl703, CR only polls subscribers I believe.


That really ensures a good sample size.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....


There were quite a few Olds Cutlasses made during that time. I think the coffee carts at Olds corporate were even called Cutlasses. Everything else was back then. Best selling car in America for a time.

The foxes vs. the A/G bodies . . . interesting who has more running today. I recall quite a few of the latter being exported to the deep, deep, deep south for "resale", if you know what I mean. Real market value, of a different sort, apparently.


That's a good question. I see more older Mustangs around here and luckily they're the better examples. I think many of the ragged out cars are in junkyards now. As for the A/G bodies, the only ones I ever see are the GNs, quite the opposite of a few years ago.

Mine is too stressful to drive and to park these days. It's too easy to steal and for some reason, just driving around the block draws the kind of attention you would think is reserved for an exotic. It may sound paranoid but it's not a bad idea to pack some heat when taking it for a spin. It's always on my mind that I have one of 2,000 made that year and if it got hit or stolen, that's the end of it.

I'm curious as to what was the best seller in the 80's. The Cutlass, Regal, Monte Carlo, or Gran Prix? From what I saw, I would guess it's between the Regal and Cutlass?

I'm also curious as to the ratio of V6 to V8 Fox body Mustangs produced.

 

[OVERKILL]

I believe there were a greater number of 2.3L I4 foxes sold than there were V8's.

 

[Audi Junkie]

My friend had a 77-ish Prelude that we worked on. He lived in Harrisburg and the car was there during TMI. It featured rust exclusively on the side which was facing the island. No kidding.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Volvohead:

The Fox body Mustangs were NOT that bad!


I never said they were bad. Great performance value. The kids all bought Mustangs or Camaros then. But driving off the dealer lot, the SHOs could do some things that the 'stangs couldn't. And an awesome engine in its own way.

The humble fox chassis, from its granddaddy Fairmont roots, helped keep Ford afloat until the Taurus completely changed the game in the second half of that decade. Reinvented the family sedan. Ford was very innovative under pressure during that time. People forget how close Ford came to collapse in the very early '80s.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: BuickGN


I'm curious as to what was the best seller in the 80's. The Cutlass, Regal, Monte Carlo, or Gran Prix? From what I saw, I would guess it's between the Regal and Cutlass?


I'm fairly certain it was the Cutlass Supreme line.

 

[BuickGN]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
I believe there were a greater number of 2.3L I4 foxes sold than there were V8's.


Doh. I learned to drive on manual 2.3L. The turbo model was pretty cool in the SVO. There was a local guy that dyno'd 430ish at the wheels. On street tires it would break the tires free in third without dumping the clutch. We used to give the Honda guys fits because they couldn't use the 4 cylinder excuse with that one.

 

[brianl703]

Most of the Fox-body Mustangs I've seen for sale have the 2.3L I4.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Volvohead
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Volvohead:

The Fox body Mustangs were NOT that bad!


I never said they were bad. Great performance value. The kids all bought Mustangs or Camaros then. But driving off the dealer lot, the SHOs could do some things that the 'stangs couldn't. And an awesome engine in its own way.

The humble fox chassis, from its granddaddy Fairmont roots, helped keep Ford afloat until the Taurus completely changed the game in the second half of that decade. Reinvented the family sedan. Ford was very innovative under pressure during that time. People forget how close Ford came to collapse in the very early '80s.



I meant they weren't that bad in terms of handling

They were good cars for their time.

 

[brianl703]

My Fox-body Mustang, with Tokico shocks and struts and subframe connectors and poly control arm/steering rack bushings, handles a heckuvalot better than it did when I first got it.

It's tolerable now