Buy American Mention of the Week

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I have no doubt that any of the big 3 COULD build a nice, well-built small car that could give Japan or Korea a run for their money in market share. They're just not in the position to do so. Production costs are currently too high, so they best than can do is screw together a Cobalt and send it out to try and compete with the likes of a Civic or Corolla...which it currently can't do. Unfortunately they're not playing on a level field at the moment.
 
 Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Good first post. I hope big three stay around for war security issues.
it's not 1941.the US is already the largest producer of implements of war.
 
They are victims of their own circunstance. They fell in love with the Pick Up Truck /SUV high profit to cost ratio, when they should have had a half wary eye on the cost of oil. Can't say as I blame them though, easy money is hard to deny. But I do think a loan (NOT A BAILOUT) would be the correct thing to do. The Big 3 represent a huge part of the US's manufacturing base and tons of jobs. If it were me, the automakers would have to divert their attention to the next big thing and everybody, from top to bottom would have to chip in. Everyone takes a haircut. If necessary, buy a BMW and tear it apart and figure out what they are doing right. Do the same with the Japanese and European small cars and try to learn something. It would be sparse times indeed, but necessary therapy. If they did actually manage to survive and actually got heathy again, they could always reflect back on the time they nearly threw the whole ball of wax right down the tubes, should compalcency or extravagent living begin to take hold. If they blow the loan, it's good bye Nellie......
 
 Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
I have no doubt that any of the big 3 COULD build a nice, well-built small car that could give Japan or Korea a run for their money in market share. They're just not in the position to do so. Production costs are currently too high, so they best than can do is screw together a Cobalt and send it out to try and compete with the likes of a Civic or Corolla...which it currently can't do. Unfortunately they're not playing on a level field at the moment.
The Fiesta is supposed to be this car for Ford......
 
Isn't the Fiesta more Yaris-Versa-Fit sized? I didn't remember it coming in the same EPA class as the Civic. I do agree that it's going to be a very important car for Ford. I love the looks, but not sure the size is right for my needs.
 
 Originally Posted By: ViragoBry
Production costs are currently too high, so they best than can do is screw together a Cobalt and send it out to try and compete with the likes of a Civic or Corolla...which it currently can't do. Unfortunately they're not playing on a level field at the moment.
The field is level. The problem is that Detroit's team is overweight, out of condition and has lousy coaches.
 
It is funny how the people never cared about any industry moving off shore till now. If the big 3 go bankrupt so what, Airlines go bankrup and everyone survives ,the employee pay drops the CEOs make more money and everyone is happy.
 
 Originally Posted By: bruno
What got me were the remarks about removing the present CEOs ! Following that logic Dodd and Barney Franks should resign considering their vocal advocacy of the policies that got us where we are today !
Yeah The automakers haven't donated enough money to Dodd and Franks .The bankers did though.
 
 Originally Posted By: firemachine69
Does my 2002 Sunfire become a collector's item now?
I can see the price sykrocketing as we speak!!
 
 Originally Posted By: oilboy123
Good first post. I hope big three stay around for war security issues.
What about the Airbus tanker controversy???
 
 Originally Posted By: double vanos
They are victims of their own circunstance. They fell in love with the Pick Up Truck /SUV high profit to cost ratio, when they should have had a half wary eye on the cost of oil. Can't say as I blame them though, easy money is hard to deny. If necessary, buy a BMW and tear it apart and figure out what they are doing right. Do the same with the Japanese and European small cars and try to learn something. It would be sparse times indeed, but necessary therapy. ......
all the car mfgrs buy competitors vehicles to examine. I read in Hot Rod once about how GM wanted to experiment w/ BMW's drive by wire in the 750il; BMW wouldn't cooperate, so GM bought a 750, tore it apart, and put the whole drivetrain in a caprice. guess what? GM has a very good drive by wire system in all its cars now. everyone KNOWS how to build good cars; the hard part is actually doing it. the japanese had a long learning curve; they only gained a rep for reliability in the late 80's. nobody used to think that Americans would accept high end Japanese vehicles, that's why they developed alternate nameplates for the American market- Lexus, Acura and Infiniti. Mazda was suppoed to do one also but ran out of money. toyota took 3 tries before they figured out how to do a full size truck as good as the domestics.toyota spent millions developing a NASCAR engine program; they benchmarked the chevy engine then poured money over it. Unencumbered, the domestics could turn out fantastic cars. BMW makes a great car, but you don't see them offering a nice mid size for $21K? they can't do it. they don't offer a compact do they? it takes a lot of R&D to offer a full line of cars. the beancounters at the domestics are a hinderance because they make cars to hit a price point, instead of building a truly great car. I don't remember the details, but there was an infamous GM memo that suggested that paying wrongful death claims was still cheaper than fixing a known design flaw. that's straight up demon-spawn accounting right there. but that thinking continues when they cheapen out where they think they can get away w/ it.
 
 Quote:
Toyota took 3 tries before they figured out how to do a full size truck as good as the domestics.
If they've achieved this, then it's news to me. Both the Tacoma and the Tundra are a looooooooooooonng ways off from becoming the F-150 and the Dodge Ram. Sales prove that. Let's not even get started on Nissan.
 
 Originally Posted By: kingrob
 Quote:
Toyota took 3 tries before they figured out how to do a full size truck as good as the domestics.
If they've achieved this, then it's news to me. Both the Tacoma and the Tundra are a looooooooooooonng ways off from becoming the F-150 and the Dodge Ram. Sales prove that. Let's not even get started on Nissan.
I guess what I meant is, it took them a while to actually get a truck to market that was big enough, and offered a good size V8. I actually like the nissan titan, I think it's a good looking truck. the toyota is hideous.
 
 Originally Posted By: mpvue
 Originally Posted By: kingrob
 Quote:
Toyota took 3 tries before they figured out how to do a full size truck as good as the domestics.
If they've achieved this, then it's news to me. Both the Tacoma and the Tundra are a looooooooooooonng ways off from becoming the F-150 and the Dodge Ram. Sales prove that. Let's not even get started on Nissan.
I guess what I meant is, it took them a while to actually get a truck to market that was big enough, and offered a good size V8. I actually like the nissan titan, I think it's a good looking truck. the toyota is hideous.
The Tundra looks like the retarded love child of an F-150 and a RAM......
 
They ruined the Tacoma too. The size and presense of a 4-door longbed Tacoma Pre-runner rivals the size of older full-sized pickups...and that size did nothing for its looks.
 
 Originally Posted By: kingrob
 Quote:
Toyota took 3 tries before they figured out how to do a full size truck as good as the domestics.
If they've achieved this, then it's news to me. Both the Tacoma and the Tundra are a looooooooooooonng ways off from becoming the F-150 and the Dodge Ram. Sales prove that. Let's not even get started on Nissan.
But is that because the truck is not up to par, or because of bias of the typical truck buyer? Just like those who preach buy American say folks are biased against domestic cars, I'd say there equal or even greater bias against a pickup made by Nissan or Toyota. Just look at sales of the Mazda Navajo, same vehicle as the Ford Explorer. Folks wouldn't buy them, but would buy the Explorer. I'm not a truck guy, so I really don't know. However, I think the largest Buy American biased population is found in the pickup truck market. So what I'm saying is that bias is evident on both sides of the aisle. There are those who will not look at a Toyota truck because it says Toyota on the name plate, even though it's built in Texas out of mostly American parts. But they will look at a Dodge Ram, or better yet, a Chevy minivan that has an engine that was built in China.
 
 Originally Posted By: javacontour
 Originally Posted By: kingrob
 Quote:
Toyota took 3 tries before they figured out how to do a full size truck as good as the domestics.
If they've achieved this, then it's news to me. Both the Tacoma and the Tundra are a looooooooooooonng ways off from becoming the F-150 and the Dodge Ram. Sales prove that. Let's not even get started on Nissan.
But is that because the truck is not up to par, or because of bias of the typical truck buyer? Just like those who preach buy American say folks are biased against domestic cars, I'd say there equal or even greater bias against a pickup made by Nissan or Toyota. Just look at sales of the Mazda Navajo, same vehicle as the Ford Explorer. Folks wouldn't buy them, but would buy the Explorer. I'm not a truck guy, so I really don't know. However, I think the largest Buy American biased population is found in the pickup truck market. So what I'm saying is that bias is evident on both sides of the aisle. There are those who will not look at a Toyota truck because it says Toyota on the name plate, even though it's built in Texas out of mostly American parts. But they will look at a Dodge Ram, or better yet, a Chevy minivan that has an engine that was built in China.
Watch the Silver Creek test on Youtube.
 
Bias? Hardly. My brother just finished trading in his 06 Titan on a brand new Taco. The Titan made him say "never again" to Nissan, a brand which he's exclusively used since 1987. The Tacoma has him seriously debating whether or not to go a full two years or not before he trades it in on a Ranger or a F150.
 
I can understand the bias towards the domestic makes a little because I bought a new 1987 Ford Ranger and it was a complete junker. However, even since I haven't owned a Ford since then, I have GM and Chrysler. They haven't given me any problems, either. That being said, I was willing to give Ford another chance, but the new Ranger didn't have enough room for me since I'm tall. Things have changed a lot in 20 years.
 
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