There's an industry phrase for that sort of survey:
Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Garbage In, Garbage Out.
Why Do Foreign Cars Hold There Value
- Thread starter c3po
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I dunno about that, CR does extensive repair histories that are fairly accurate.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
No more than I can prove that the large depreciation between a new buick and a used Buick is justified. It's all about how one perceives value. That's how you make money when buying and selling anything.
Well, you're the one making the claim. If you assert it without evidence, it can be dismissed without evidence.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
If you think used Hondas and Toyotas are worth only a couple hundred less than a new one, then keep buying them. In fact, why would I want to prove otherwise? You'd help keep the value of my Toyota up
I was really hoping you were only using your Toyota as a rhetorical device. That was a new vehicle on clearance vs. a used vehicle at its standard price. You don't really think that's representative, do you?
No more than I can prove that the large depreciation between a new buick and a used Buick is justified. It's all about how one perceives value. That's how you make money when buying and selling anything.
Well, you're the one making the claim. If you assert it without evidence, it can be dismissed without evidence.
Originally Posted By: VeeDubb
If you think used Hondas and Toyotas are worth only a couple hundred less than a new one, then keep buying them. In fact, why would I want to prove otherwise? You'd help keep the value of my Toyota up
I was really hoping you were only using your Toyota as a rhetorical device. That was a new vehicle on clearance vs. a used vehicle at its standard price. You don't really think that's representative, do you?
You asked a loaded question for which there is no way to "prove" the claim scientifically. But like I said, it's largely based on perceive value. So you win.
But I like the fact I can buy a new car, drive it for a year and unload to someone for only a few hundred less. To me, that's value. But you might feel differently. And you should keep buying those used Hondas and Toyotas and we'll both be happy.
My Sienna was not on clearance. It was in March 2007 and the car had 11 miles on the odometer. Factory rebates and specials are neither rare or unusual. Just go to Edmunds.com to check out the specials. Also go into the Edmunds inside line and look at the deals people are getting on new cars. And then go price a one year old Toyota on Edmunds or Kelly. I think you'll be surprised.
But I like the fact I can buy a new car, drive it for a year and unload to someone for only a few hundred less. To me, that's value. But you might feel differently. And you should keep buying those used Hondas and Toyotas and we'll both be happy.
My Sienna was not on clearance. It was in March 2007 and the car had 11 miles on the odometer. Factory rebates and specials are neither rare or unusual. Just go to Edmunds.com to check out the specials. Also go into the Edmunds inside line and look at the deals people are getting on new cars. And then go price a one year old Toyota on Edmunds or Kelly. I think you'll be surprised.
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It comes down to units produced. If there were half as many Explorers produced, the used ones would be much closer to the new ones in price. As it is the used ones are a dime a dozen. Quality isn't really an issue. Alleged quality issues didn't stop the mass number of produced units being sold ..only their resale value and how aggressively the new sales were discounted.
It ams what it ams.
It ams what it ams.
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I dunno about that, CR does extensive repair histories that are fairly accurate.
From the same surveys.
I dunno about that, CR does extensive repair histories that are fairly accurate.
From the same surveys.
One question:
How many people look into other peoples backyard to see if there is an old Honda or Toyota back there that is a possible restoration project?
I know when I see a retired Fox Mustang, a G-body GM, F-body GM, 1983 and later Thunderbird, etc, I start thinking about future restoration projects.
How many people look into other peoples backyard to see if there is an old Honda or Toyota back there that is a possible restoration project?
I know when I see a retired Fox Mustang, a G-body GM, F-body GM, 1983 and later Thunderbird, etc, I start thinking about future restoration projects.
Around here, the Toyota/Honda possible restoration projects get parked on the street until the cops ticket them. Then they disappear, never to be seen again.
The ones around here wouldn't need to be restored if the drivers didn't smash/blow them up.
From what I gather, this is what happens:
1)Car gets smashed up or engine/transmission blows.
2)Owner gets it towed home, takes the tags off to use on another car.
3)Car sits on the street for months while owner does nothing with it, but doesn't want to get rid of it in case they might restore it.
4)Cops finally come and ticket it and put a big orange "CAR WILL BE TOWED" sticker on it.
5)Owner either gets rid of the car or it gets towed.
So, the upshot is that there's plenty of "restoration projects" waiting at the Prince William County impound lot.
From what I gather, this is what happens:
1)Car gets smashed up or engine/transmission blows.
2)Owner gets it towed home, takes the tags off to use on another car.
3)Car sits on the street for months while owner does nothing with it, but doesn't want to get rid of it in case they might restore it.
4)Cops finally come and ticket it and put a big orange "CAR WILL BE TOWED" sticker on it.
5)Owner either gets rid of the car or it gets towed.
So, the upshot is that there's plenty of "restoration projects" waiting at the Prince William County impound lot.
Brian, my in-laws live in your neck of the woods, and you speak the truth.
It seems like their neighborhood has at least three or four primer grey Civics with four flat tires and black tinted windows sitting along the curb. I recently brought it up to my GF and she wondered if maybe they were waiting for the garbageman to come pick it up.
It seems like their neighborhood has at least three or four primer grey Civics with four flat tires and black tinted windows sitting along the curb. I recently brought it up to my GF and she wondered if maybe they were waiting for the garbageman to come pick it up.
JHZR2
Staff member
Originally Posted By: Audi Junkie
I dunno about that, CR does extensive repair histories that are fairly accurate.
Ive not seen accuracy in any of our vehicles, and that is a pretty high number. Meanwhile the recent toyota and honda products that friends and family have owned have also been incorrect compared to the CR reports.
I dunno about that, CR does extensive repair histories that are fairly accurate.
Ive not seen accuracy in any of our vehicles, and that is a pretty high number. Meanwhile the recent toyota and honda products that friends and family have owned have also been incorrect compared to the CR reports.
Originally Posted By: kingrob
Brian, my in-laws live in your neck of the woods, and you speak the truth.
It seems like their neighborhood has at least three or four primer grey Civics with four flat tires and black tinted windows sitting along the curb. I recently brought it up to my GF and she wondered if maybe they were waiting for the garbageman to come pick it up.
A friend of mine lives on a street that had a Honda Civic parked with NO tags on it for 3, yes, 3 months. A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that to two people, both of whom are closely associated with Prince William County Board of Supervisors members(one of which, I believe, is for the district that this car was parked in). The police FINALLY came through and ticketed it. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Hopefully someone got chewed out for that. 3 months is just ridiculous.
Brian, my in-laws live in your neck of the woods, and you speak the truth.
It seems like their neighborhood has at least three or four primer grey Civics with four flat tires and black tinted windows sitting along the curb. I recently brought it up to my GF and she wondered if maybe they were waiting for the garbageman to come pick it up.
A friend of mine lives on a street that had a Honda Civic parked with NO tags on it for 3, yes, 3 months. A couple of weeks ago I mentioned that to two people, both of whom are closely associated with Prince William County Board of Supervisors members(one of which, I believe, is for the district that this car was parked in). The police FINALLY came through and ticketed it. I don't think that's a coincidence.
Hopefully someone got chewed out for that. 3 months is just ridiculous.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....
I used to see the Fox bodies everywhere and now I see one about once a month. Hopefully the nice ones are now in the hands of enthusiasts and sit in garages most of the time.
I remember when they were at just about every stoplight and with the huge rivalry between the Grand National and Mustang, there was a lot of action. I hated them back then since they were the competition. Then one year, 1996, I believe, I was competing in the Buick vs Ford shootout in Bakersfield. That same day was an early battle of the imports. They ended up running the fastest Honda against one of the quicker street driven Mustangs. I found myself cheering for the Mustang which was weird, and ever since the Mustang spanked the full race Honda, I've liked them.
I have a friend that just had to give up his 351W Fox body Mustang (yes, a transplant, but it's been there for nearly the entire life of the car)with just under 10,000 original miles and has never even had a door ding. It is the most perfect Mustang I have seen in recent years. He was pretty bummed, he owned the car since it was new.
Yeah, there are a LOT of guys collecting them. A good friend of mine has had at least seven in the last few years. Many are 4-cylinder parts cars. He currently owns a red GT vert, a black '93 notch with like 20,000 miles on it. It's never been WET!!!! And an '82 Capri with an '89 powertrain and ECM setup in it. Makes 534RWHP, went 10.2 on Pinks-all-out, running out of gear.
There are actually a couple of wreckers up Toronto way that keep JUST Fox body Mustangs. They don't crush them. They are there for parts.
A guy I know has a couple GN's, one of them is immaculate. Really neat cars!!! I like them as well.
A similar story to yours:
We were up at Shannonville Motorsport Park and some loud-mouth with an Eclipse was making fun of one of his buddy's with a Mustang. Saying how he was so glad that he didn't own such a piece of junk... blah blah blah.
He ends up racing his buddy, who beats him. BAD.
Then ends up going up against a good friend of mine's 525RWHP notch. Car went 11.5. The Eclipse went like low 14's. That was a pretty embarassing race for him
His friends were bugging him BAD when he came back
"Man, I sure wish I could own an Eclipse, then I could run my mouth and get beat hardcore by two "slow a$$" Mustangs too!"
For OVERKILL:
I was digging through old videos and came up with this: early 2001, one of the only videos I have of the "good old days".
My GN with open exhaust, chip, filter, boost turned up, street tires. It *might* have had a larger intercooler, can't remember back that far.
A 5.0 with small A-trim blower, small cam, and slicks.
Going off of a fading memory, mine was a 12.60 car at the time.
I miss the old days before the 15 second imports drunk racing. Bad language warning.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2001/052601/6.wmv
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....
I used to see the Fox bodies everywhere and now I see one about once a month. Hopefully the nice ones are now in the hands of enthusiasts and sit in garages most of the time.
I remember when they were at just about every stoplight and with the huge rivalry between the Grand National and Mustang, there was a lot of action. I hated them back then since they were the competition. Then one year, 1996, I believe, I was competing in the Buick vs Ford shootout in Bakersfield. That same day was an early battle of the imports. They ended up running the fastest Honda against one of the quicker street driven Mustangs. I found myself cheering for the Mustang which was weird, and ever since the Mustang spanked the full race Honda, I've liked them.
I have a friend that just had to give up his 351W Fox body Mustang (yes, a transplant, but it's been there for nearly the entire life of the car)with just under 10,000 original miles and has never even had a door ding. It is the most perfect Mustang I have seen in recent years. He was pretty bummed, he owned the car since it was new.
Yeah, there are a LOT of guys collecting them. A good friend of mine has had at least seven in the last few years. Many are 4-cylinder parts cars. He currently owns a red GT vert, a black '93 notch with like 20,000 miles on it. It's never been WET!!!! And an '82 Capri with an '89 powertrain and ECM setup in it. Makes 534RWHP, went 10.2 on Pinks-all-out, running out of gear.
There are actually a couple of wreckers up Toronto way that keep JUST Fox body Mustangs. They don't crush them. They are there for parts.
A guy I know has a couple GN's, one of them is immaculate. Really neat cars!!! I like them as well.
A similar story to yours:
We were up at Shannonville Motorsport Park and some loud-mouth with an Eclipse was making fun of one of his buddy's with a Mustang. Saying how he was so glad that he didn't own such a piece of junk... blah blah blah.
He ends up racing his buddy, who beats him. BAD.
Then ends up going up against a good friend of mine's 525RWHP notch. Car went 11.5. The Eclipse went like low 14's. That was a pretty embarassing race for him
His friends were bugging him BAD when he came back
For OVERKILL:
I was digging through old videos and came up with this: early 2001, one of the only videos I have of the "good old days".
My GN with open exhaust, chip, filter, boost turned up, street tires. It *might* have had a larger intercooler, can't remember back that far.
A 5.0 with small A-trim blower, small cam, and slicks.
Going off of a fading memory, mine was a 12.60 car at the time.
I miss the old days before the 15 second imports drunk racing. Bad language warning.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2001/052601/6.wmv
OVERKILL
$100 Site Donor 2021
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....
I used to see the Fox bodies everywhere and now I see one about once a month. Hopefully the nice ones are now in the hands of enthusiasts and sit in garages most of the time.
I remember when they were at just about every stoplight and with the huge rivalry between the Grand National and Mustang, there was a lot of action. I hated them back then since they were the competition. Then one year, 1996, I believe, I was competing in the Buick vs Ford shootout in Bakersfield. That same day was an early battle of the imports. They ended up running the fastest Honda against one of the quicker street driven Mustangs. I found myself cheering for the Mustang which was weird, and ever since the Mustang spanked the full race Honda, I've liked them.
I have a friend that just had to give up his 351W Fox body Mustang (yes, a transplant, but it's been there for nearly the entire life of the car)with just under 10,000 original miles and has never even had a door ding. It is the most perfect Mustang I have seen in recent years. He was pretty bummed, he owned the car since it was new.
Yeah, there are a LOT of guys collecting them. A good friend of mine has had at least seven in the last few years. Many are 4-cylinder parts cars. He currently owns a red GT vert, a black '93 notch with like 20,000 miles on it. It's never been WET!!!! And an '82 Capri with an '89 powertrain and ECM setup in it. Makes 534RWHP, went 10.2 on Pinks-all-out, running out of gear.
There are actually a couple of wreckers up Toronto way that keep JUST Fox body Mustangs. They don't crush them. They are there for parts.
A guy I know has a couple GN's, one of them is immaculate. Really neat cars!!! I like them as well.
A similar story to yours:
We were up at Shannonville Motorsport Park and some loud-mouth with an Eclipse was making fun of one of his buddy's with a Mustang. Saying how he was so glad that he didn't own such a piece of junk... blah blah blah.
He ends up racing his buddy, who beats him. BAD.
Then ends up going up against a good friend of mine's 525RWHP notch. Car went 11.5. The Eclipse went like low 14's. That was a pretty embarassing race for him
His friends were bugging him BAD when he came back
"Man, I sure wish I could own an Eclipse, then I could run my mouth and get beat hardcore by two "slow a$$" Mustangs too!"
For OVERKILL:
I was digging through old videos and came up with this: early 2001, one of the only videos I have of the "good old days".
My GN with open exhaust, chip, filter, boost turned up, street tires. It *might* have had a larger intercooler, can't remember back that far.
A 5.0 with small A-trim blower, small cam, and slicks.
Going off of a fading memory, mine was a 12.60 car at the time.
I miss the old days before the 15 second imports drunk racing. Bad language warning.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2001/052601/6.wmv
Oh man, you are going to laugh
The engine my heads came off of belonged to the first guy I was talking about. He had an '89 notch, stock short, ported GT40's (mine now), Crane/Cobra 1.7 roller rockers (mine now), Crane 2031 camshaft, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, 30lb injectors with an FMU and an A-Trim with 3.55's out back. With 8lbs of boost, car made 398RWHP and went 11.7 at 118Mph IIRC.
One of THE most fun street cars I've been in.
Yes, those are the "good old days" of drag racing. I cannot get excited by doughnut front tires chirping and what sounds like a John-Deere weed eater making a 1320 pass.
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Originally Posted By: BuickGN
Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Most common car from the '80's still on the road is likely the Fox-body Mustang. 2.6 million were made from 79 to 93.....
I used to see the Fox bodies everywhere and now I see one about once a month. Hopefully the nice ones are now in the hands of enthusiasts and sit in garages most of the time.
I remember when they were at just about every stoplight and with the huge rivalry between the Grand National and Mustang, there was a lot of action. I hated them back then since they were the competition. Then one year, 1996, I believe, I was competing in the Buick vs Ford shootout in Bakersfield. That same day was an early battle of the imports. They ended up running the fastest Honda against one of the quicker street driven Mustangs. I found myself cheering for the Mustang which was weird, and ever since the Mustang spanked the full race Honda, I've liked them.
I have a friend that just had to give up his 351W Fox body Mustang (yes, a transplant, but it's been there for nearly the entire life of the car)with just under 10,000 original miles and has never even had a door ding. It is the most perfect Mustang I have seen in recent years. He was pretty bummed, he owned the car since it was new.
Yeah, there are a LOT of guys collecting them. A good friend of mine has had at least seven in the last few years. Many are 4-cylinder parts cars. He currently owns a red GT vert, a black '93 notch with like 20,000 miles on it. It's never been WET!!!! And an '82 Capri with an '89 powertrain and ECM setup in it. Makes 534RWHP, went 10.2 on Pinks-all-out, running out of gear.
There are actually a couple of wreckers up Toronto way that keep JUST Fox body Mustangs. They don't crush them. They are there for parts.
A guy I know has a couple GN's, one of them is immaculate. Really neat cars!!! I like them as well.
A similar story to yours:
We were up at Shannonville Motorsport Park and some loud-mouth with an Eclipse was making fun of one of his buddy's with a Mustang. Saying how he was so glad that he didn't own such a piece of junk... blah blah blah.
He ends up racing his buddy, who beats him. BAD.
Then ends up going up against a good friend of mine's 525RWHP notch. Car went 11.5. The Eclipse went like low 14's. That was a pretty embarassing race for him
His friends were bugging him BAD when he came back
For OVERKILL:
I was digging through old videos and came up with this: early 2001, one of the only videos I have of the "good old days".
My GN with open exhaust, chip, filter, boost turned up, street tires. It *might* have had a larger intercooler, can't remember back that far.
A 5.0 with small A-trim blower, small cam, and slicks.
Going off of a fading memory, mine was a 12.60 car at the time.
I miss the old days before the 15 second imports drunk racing. Bad language warning.
http://bsr.njsr.org/2001/052601/6.wmv
Oh man, you are going to laugh
The engine my heads came off of belonged to the first guy I was talking about. He had an '89 notch, stock short, ported GT40's (mine now), Crane/Cobra 1.7 roller rockers (mine now), Crane 2031 camshaft, Edelbrock Performer RPM intake, 30lb injectors with an FMU and an A-Trim with 3.55's out back. With 8lbs of boost, car made 398RWHP and went 11.7 at 118Mph IIRC.
One of THE most fun street cars I've been in.
Yes, those are the "good old days" of drag racing. I cannot get excited by doughnut front tires chirping and what sounds like a John-Deere weed eater making a 1320 pass.
Last edited by a moderator:
That's too funny. I raced nearly the same car. However, I consider that race lucky. My car was only trapping 112-114 back then. I should not have been able to run the guy down but I think he had some tuning issues.
Talk about coincidences. I was driving in the TL yesterday and a super clean notch went by. Sounded great, definately had a cam. Instinctively I chased him down and then realized what car I was in. I talked to the guy at a redlight and it had a centrifugal blower, heads/cam/built 347. I told him he didn't have a chance against my vtec and of course he took the bait and went sideways from a 30mph roll.
Talk about coincidences. I was driving in the TL yesterday and a super clean notch went by. Sounded great, definately had a cam. Instinctively I chased him down and then realized what car I was in. I talked to the guy at a redlight and it had a centrifugal blower, heads/cam/built 347. I told him he didn't have a chance against my vtec and of course he took the bait and went sideways from a 30mph roll.
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Originally Posted By: c3po
Can anyone please tell me why foreign cars hold there value better than American cars.
Where?
Can anyone please tell me why foreign cars hold there value better than American cars.
Where?
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