Why Do Foreign Cars Hold There Value

[kingrob]

Quote:
everyone defends them in some romantically nostalgic way like they're trying to show their national pride.


So, explain to me how GM sells more cars worldwide than any other company on Earth. Are all the people in Eurasia beating their breast and singing hymns of national pride while they putt around in their Opel? Or all the Chinese that pass on their own cars in favor of Cadillac and Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently). I guess it's all brainwashed rhetoric. Your theory is as flawed as your perceptions.

 

[swalve]

The foreign manufacturers are better at matching the demand and only producing the number of cars they will sell. That's why there are no end of the model year closeouts. That's also why they seem to hold their value better, there are fewer of them in the used market place, so the higher demand brings prices up.

My experience is also that the desirable American cars hold their value just fine- it's the el-cheapos that pull the average down.

Also, not for nothing, it may also be because they are more expensive to repair and end up getting totalled by insurance more often. That reduces the supply of the used marketplace too.

Finally, who cares what the "value" of the car is? Daily drivers aren't investments, they are costs. You buy a car so you can drive around.

 

[rg200amp]

Top 5 sellers of all time in the world.

The number one seeling car in the world is the Toyota Corolla. Followed by the Ford F-series pickups, Then The VW Golf, Then the VW Beetle, then lastly the Ford Model T.

 

[XS650]

Originally Posted By: kingrob
Quote:
everyone defends them in some romantically nostalgic way like they're trying to show their national pride.


So, explain to me how GM sells more cars worldwide than any other company on Earth. Are all the people in Eurasia beating their breast and singing hymns of national pride while they putt around in their Opel? Or all the Chinese that pass on their own cars in favor of Cadillac and Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently). I guess it's all brainwashed rhetoric. Your theory is as flawed as your perceptions.


US designed and built GM cars sell very poorly outside North America.

Quote:
Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently)

You don't get out much do you?

Take a good look at a world map, find out what countries are in Asia and then try that one again.

 

[OVERKILL]

Originally Posted By: Gannet167
I'm not "bud." I just finished helping a friend rebuild his Rust-stang because it was so poorly put together at the factory, it ate it's own head gaskets after 100,000 km's. According to ConsumerReports- a very common occurrence.

There's lots of stats out there, sales up and down, but Honda isn't asking the gov't for a bailout because they can't manage their business. Their profits may go to Japan, it's called the global economy. You can't argue with their success. The lack of profits by the big 3 are not being paid to the gov't - the gov't is covering up and bailing them out as a result of their losses.

I like some American cars, I'm not a domestic hater or pro-foreign fan per-say. I just think it's funny that indisputably the big 3 have failed as businesses and while we can debate the macro-economic benefits of bailing out an industry, everyone defends them in some romantically nostalgic way like they're trying to show their national pride.

They're just companies who made ridiculous mistakes and now are failing. They're not icons to be worshipped. You may love your Plymouth Reliant, but it doesn't mean that Chrysler deserves to stay in business.


BAHHAHAHAHAHAH, ate a HEAD GASKET? Was it a 3.8L by chance? Because the 302's and 4.6L are NOT head gasket eating engines. I have more experience with this style of car in the last WEEK than you'll have in you entire LIFE.

Oh, and you apparently missed the sarcasm on my "bud" comment....

Citing Consumer Reports as a source of expertise on Mustangs is like citing Fidel Castro as an expert on Democracy.

Subaru had head gasket issues as well. I don't see you slamming them. Ask Bill in here about the Subaru head gasket issue.

Look up the Toyota sludge issue. The Tacoma frame issue. The Honda auto transmission issue. There are lots of them out there.

Ford's Windsor and Modular engines are some of the best engines ever built. By anyone. And there is PLENTY of evidence out there to back that up. The 3.8L, in non-supercharged form, had headgasket issues for certain years. But it's a far easier job than replacing them on a Subaru.

 

[Volvohead]

Originally Posted By: OVERK1LL
Last I checked, Ford still had 26 billion.... GM and Chrysler have no money. Poor example using the Taurus.


I'm not sure of the connection between these two statements. Maybe there isn't any.

Ford mortgaged all its assets, including the blue oval, before the liquidity crisis hit. The other two didn't, and now banks aren't lending. That doesn't mean Ford is doing any better than the other two at making or selling vehicles. It does mean that Ford timed its borrowing better.

I owned a Taurus. Nice car, very soft transmission.

 

[OVERKILL]

Volvohead: Exactly, they have a substantial quantity of credit on hand that they can dip into to deal with financial issues.

GM and Chrysler do not. So they literally NEED a financial influx to continue operation.

The Taurus comment was because he cited the Taurus as an example and said Ford was going out of business in a week. Ford has enough credit to last, apparently, at least a year. Therefore, not a good choice. He should have used an example from GM or Chrysler, who literally DO have something like a week to go before they run out of money.....

 

[javacontour]

Originally Posted By: kingrob
Quote:
everyone defends them in some romantically nostalgic way like they're trying to show their national pride.


So, explain to me how GM sells more cars worldwide than any other company on Earth. Are all the people in Eurasia beating their breast and singing hymns of national pride while they putt around in their Opel? Or all the Chinese that pass on their own cars in favor of Cadillac and Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently). I guess it's all brainwashed rhetoric. Your theory is as flawed as your perceptions.


That's the troubling question. The biggest carmaker should have the HIGHEST profit margins due to economies of scale. Why is GM of any automaker begging for bailouts and loan guarantees? They should be the last ones doing so, due to their leadership in sales.

That right there should tell you there is something seriously broken at GM.

 

[1sttruck]

"I owned a Taurus. Nice car, very soft transmission."

We'e on our third Taurus as there aren't any Japanese sedans with a bench front seat. The transmission in the 2nd Taurus went as 100k miles as the dealer hadn't put in a recall fix early on. The only car I'd seen eat a transmission earlier was a friend's Acura at 35k miles.

 

[oilyriser]

Saturn SLs didn't depreciate as fast as their other domestic cousins, even though they were sold as cheap economy cars. It's in the engineering.

 

[Gary Allan]

Originally Posted By: javacontour
Originally Posted By: kingrob
Quote:
everyone defends them in some romantically nostalgic way like they're trying to show their national pride.


So, explain to me how GM sells more cars worldwide than any other company on Earth. Are all the people in Eurasia beating their breast and singing hymns of national pride while they putt around in their Opel? Or all the Chinese that pass on their own cars in favor of Cadillac and Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently). I guess it's all brainwashed rhetoric. Your theory is as flawed as your perceptions.


That's the troubling question. The biggest carmaker should have the HIGHEST profit margins due to economies of scale. Why is GM of any automaker begging for bailouts and loan guarantees? They should be the last ones doing so, due to their leadership in sales.

That right there should tell you there is something seriously broken at GM.


Being biggest has its liabilities. Much like Fidelity Magellan ..just moving around caused the market to react to it instead of it taking advantage of the market. The train is so long at the Big 3 ..requiring so much planning and preparation ..that it made more sense in avoided costs to release defective cars than it was to halt production and wait for proper parts. Even if they see the iceberg ahead ..there's not much they can do about it.

Way too many models and target price points to guide them in just what they produced.

 

[kingrob]

Originally Posted By: XS650
Originally Posted By: kingrob
Quote:
everyone defends them in some romantically nostalgic way like they're trying to show their national pride.


So, explain to me how GM sells more cars worldwide than any other company on Earth. Are all the people in Eurasia beating their breast and singing hymns of national pride while they putt around in their Opel? Or all the Chinese that pass on their own cars in favor of Cadillac and Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently). I guess it's all brainwashed rhetoric. Your theory is as flawed as your perceptions.


US designed and built GM cars sell very poorly outside North America.

Quote:
Buick (the best selling car in Asia currently)

You don't get out much do you?

Take a good look at a world map, find out what countries are in Asia and then try that one again.



My first point was that he couldn't figure out why GM as a brand was still around. He figured it had to have something to do with National pride, not the country of manufacture.

Second off, why is the fact that Buick is the best-selling marque in Asia so funny? It's long been the best selling brand in China and India which comprise over 2/3rds of Asia (barring Russia of course). As I was reading this thread my local news announced that for the month of November more Buicks were sold in Asia than any other brand, including Toyota. So what's so funny?

 

[kingrob]

Originally Posted By: rg200amp
Top 5 sellers of all time in the world.

The number one seeling car in the world is the Toyota Corolla. Followed by the Ford F-series pickups, Then The VW Golf, Then the VW Beetle, then lastly the Ford Model T.


That source is ten years out of date. Here is the current standings:

1. Toyota Corolla
2. Ford F Series
3. VW Golf
4. VW Beetle
5. Ford Escort
6. Honda Civic
7. Ford Model T
8. Nissan Sunny/Sentra/Pulsar
9. VW Passat
10. Lada Riva

Incidentally; the Mustang is the best selling Sports Car of all time.

Best selling 2 Seater is the Mazda Roadster/Miata.

Best single-year sales - 9,395,118 - 2004 Ford F-150 (23 years in a row as the top-selling single vehicle, 28 years as the best-selling truck in the USA).

Best-selling American Sedan - Ford Taurus (more than 7,000,000 sold in 4.5 generations sold between 1986 and 2006).

Best Selling Minivan - Dodge Caravan, over 11,000,000 sold.

 

[JMHC]

There's a difference in manufacturer's issues. When a GM has a common problem, they tell you to go pound salt. With the Honda transmission issues, they'd replace it for free up to 100,000 miles. When I had my Chevy, every "common" problem that everyone was having was never even considered to be repaired for free. I believe Toyota also replaced the sludgers for free as well, even beyond the warranty. So what does that tell you? Who stands behind their product?

Also, the reason for value is simple. You can go buy a Honda with 100,000 on it and expect another 100,000 rather trouble free miles out of it. It's worth more because it has half of its life left. Most domestics have very little left, or if they do have another 100,000 in them, it will come at a hefty repair cost. Many on this forum will disagree, but, look at the facts. There are far more 10 year old Camrys and Accords on the road than Imapalas, Tauruses, and Intrepids. Hence, after a being a lifelong GM fan and owner, I bought a Honda last year. And so far it's perfect!

 

[Win]

Originally Posted By: JMHC
There's a difference in manufacturer's issues.
...
I believe Toyota also replaced the sludgers for free as well, even beyond the warranty. So what does that tell you? Who stands behind their product?


Not really.

It took a class action lawsuit to resolve the Toyota sludge issues. If you read the sentiments of owners of the affected vehicles, many seem to think that Toyota told them to pound salt.

Originally Posted By: JMHC


... Honda reason for value is simple. with 100,000 on it and expect another 100,000 rather trouble free miles out of it. It's worth more because it has half of its life left. Most domestics have very little left, or if they do have another 100,000 in them, it will come at a hefty repair cost.



Honda had accuracy issues with the odometers on their vehicles. A cynic could say that Honda rigged them in their favor. A lawyer here in town was one of the lawyers on that class action suit.

Most, maybe all, manufacturers have put bad product on the public at various times, and tried to weasel out of it.

 

[d00df00d]

I'd just like to point out that the fact that a car has a big following does not mean the car is good, nor does it mean the company is good at building cars. It just means the car is at least decent, and easily accessible.

Most generations of Mustang are [censored]. I'm sorry, but it's true. They are fun in a straight line on a dry road, cheap to buy, (usually) cheap to maintain, and VERY easy to make fast, but ultimately they are primitive machines that are nothing truly special to drive -- i.e. they give you nothing you couldn't get from another car that is better in other ways.

Other examples of popular-does-not-mean-good: Liberty, Escape/Mariner, PT Cruiser, Caliber, H2, etc.

 

[smokey1]

spoke to a CAMRY owner with the sludge issue and told me TOYOTA told him to use a full synthetic to help with the problem .

 

[Bror Jace]

Significant problems with the Japanese makes in the last 20 years are uncommon enough that they are individually identified - Honda transmission problems, Toyota sludging problem, etc ... and usually handled well by the manufacturer in question.

Similar troubles with domestics are lost in an ocean of competing complaints.

I just read through this thread and it appears a few people are saying there never was a quality problem with the domestic manufacturers ... just a perception problem. It's thinking like that which allowed the Big 3 to bury their heads in the sand and get us to where we are today.

I'm a Honda fan but I'm also a patriot and want the Big 3 to turn things around for the sake of our economy. Hopefully they've done so (only time will tell) but it may be too late for at least one or two of them.

 

[brianl703]

Originally Posted By: Bror Jace

Similar troubles with domestics are lost in an ocean of competing complaints.


Which is why there was a class-action suit against Ford for their TFI-IV ignition module problems when similar problems with Hondas (primarily the Civic, as I recall) went "unpunished".

 

[1sttruck]

" Which is why there was a class-action suit against Ford for their TFI-IV ignition module problems when similar problems with Hondas (primarily the Civic, as I recall) went "unpunished". "

It seems to be real strong Kool Aid. When I mention something about Hondas with bad transmissions I don't hear a peep from anyone, even though I know there are people in the group I mentioned it to who had such problems.