Which oils are still "full synthetics"?

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24
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Southeast
After too long on Edmunds,I found this board!It's great! I've read all the posts here and am still confused as to which oils are still "full synths" by the Class 4,5 base stock definition.Am I correct that those are Amsoil,Mobil-1,and Red Line? Are Valvoline,Quaker State,Pennzoil,Chevron and Castrol ONLY available in Class 2,3 or blends of mainly those base oils?
 

MolaKule

Staff member
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21,909
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Iowegia - USA
As far as I can determine, Amsoil, Mobil 1, Redline, and NEO use PAO/Ester formulations for base oils. Sheaffer uses a Group II-III? with PAO in their blends. The others use Group III, including Castrol, which created this huge mess (mass) of misunderstanding, or should I say, misleading fiasco.
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
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Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by kalbri: Royal Purple is also PAO based
Only their race oils are full synthetic, their multi-vis street oils are not.
 
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5,069
Location
Saratoga, NY
What about Synergen? From their product line, they seem to be heavy into esters ... sorta like Red Line. These guys seem to be making a good reputation for themselves but are tight-lipped about their formulas. I can understand why but I still find that annoying. If anyone has any specifics, please let me know.
 
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79
Location
RTP, NC
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: Only their race oils are full synthetic, their multi-vis street oils are not.
I'll call that bet. I've corresponded with RP and they claim full synthetic status (with the caveat that no "full synthetic" is truly 100% synthetic due to the unsuitability of syn for additive suspension). What's your source? [ June 10, 2002, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: alexiskai ]
 
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11
Location
Oregon
Chevron makes a Delo 400 0w-30 full synthetic,and a supreme full synthetic in 5w-30 10w-30.and a 5w-40 in either the supreme or the Delo (PAO) based. I have about 7gallons left of the 0w-30. I called their lube tech line and they said Their synthetic oils are PAO based oils and that they make and refine all their base stocks and also sell to others to make their synthetic oils #1-800-lube-tek.I think thats the #Tony
 
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Canberra ACT Australia
Molakule, glad you mentioned NEO. I'd like any analysis figures or user experiences as I know they had had major success fixing vehicles with inbuilt design problems here in Oz. For instance Range Rovers had a problem with high gear starving for oil on long runs in summer and NEO fixed that. Just never hear anybody talk about these highly tated products?
 

Patman

Staff member
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22,000
Location
Guelph, Ontario
quote:
Originally posted by alexiskai:
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: Only their race oils are full synthetic, their multi-vis street oils are not.
I'll call that bet. I've corresponded with RP and they claim full synthetic status (with the caveat that no "full synthetic" is truly 100% synthetic due to the unsuitability of syn for additive suspension). What's your source?

My source is their own website! http://www.synerlec.com/faq.html Here is what part of that FAQ states:
quote:
If your street products are not 100% synthetic, why are they priced similar to a full synthetic? The Synerlec technology provides the best protection and performance increases available, however, it is very expensive. We have blended our street oils to exceed the performance characteristics of any other blended or "Full" synthetic. If having a full synthetic is important, we have our racing line which can be considered a "Full" synthetic.
 
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79
Location
RTP, NC
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: My source is their own website!
Hmm... hadn't seen that before. But it's interesting in view of the response I received from RP when I questioned them on this very topic, part of which read as follows: "There are no industry standard definitions of either "full synthetic" or "semi-synthetic" in regard to actual synthetic base oil percentages of a finished product. I'm not involved in formulations so I can't offer exact percentages though I can tell you all Royal Purple products begin with 100% group IV PAO synthetic base oils. However, in finished form they do possess a degree of mineral base oils used as diluents or carrier oils for uniform suspension of the additives as you will find with any fully formulated synthetic lubricant regardless of how the manufacturer may market the product. Due to poor additive solubility of synthetic base oils, additive separation would occur without the appropriate diluents." :::sigh::: I'm not sure how we're supposed to make informed judgments when the company is contradicting itself.
 

Patman

Staff member
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Guelph, Ontario
It is tricky to figure things out when we hear such contradictory info from their own tech reps too. I'm keeping an open mind though, if I can find Royal Purple up here I may give it a shot next year for a while and get an analysis done. The more and more I read about oil lately, the more I don't care so much about whether an oil is fully synthetic, I'm more interested in how it's antiwear package is. For the wintertime I'm very interested in the pour point though, and for this a full synthetic will definitely shine.
 
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2,077
Location
Cordelia, CA
Yes, these are diester based oils. From my research, diesters are inferior to poly-ol esters, and fall between PAOs and Polyol Esters in price. How do Diesters compare to PAOs? What are the upsides and downsides? Where can you get Motul, I've not been able to find any suppliers of it to see the prices. Where can I find specs on them? I could not find them on their website. [ June 19, 2002, 05:42 PM: Message edited by: VaderSS ]
 
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Location
Falls Church VA
VaderSS- Al Amatuzio, owner of AMSOIL, told a bunch of us (a few years ago) that a full diester oil could most likely never pass the then current SAE specs. Haven't always agreed with Al, but have never (in 25 years) known him to lie.
 
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263
Location
DFW, TX
I've seen both explanations of the above from RP and I'm not sure how much non-synthetic oil is used. It does meet GM 4718M and I've not seen any of the other blends that have, although I can't say that they've tried either. I agree with Patman that the base oil is not the end all for the quality.
 
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24,421
Location
Dallas,Tx USA
 Originally Posted By: Patman
Only their race oils are full synthetic, their multi-vis street oils are not.
That`s the word as well on the Z forums I`m on,that the street oils are synth blends and the racing oils are full synths. I`ve always been a bit curious about their racing oils. I`ve never seen them in any auto parts store though. Do we have any users here?
 
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2,499
Location
NJ
 Originally Posted By: lexus114
German Castrol 0W-30 is full synthetic.
It wasn't around when this thread started. Holy thread resurrection! -Dennis
 
Messages
325
Location
Pacific NW USA
 Originally Posted By: alexiskai
quote:
Originally posted by Patman: Only their race oils are full synthetic, their multi-vis street oils are not.
I'll call that bet. I've corresponded with RP and they claim full synthetic status (with the caveat that no "full synthetic" is truly 100% synthetic due to the unsuitability of syn for additive suspension). What's your source? [ June 10, 2002, 12:57 AM: Message edited by: alexiskai ]
Interesting, perhaps this why UOAs show the shear issues with RP. Inherent issues with the formulation.
 
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