When to change to synthetic?
- Thread starter e4gulf
- Start date
- Status
Have you changed the oil since 25 miles?
You can go syn anytime but I would use dino for a while.
Pick a good dino for at least 3k miles but aome disagee.
In fact I switched to rotella 5w-40 at 1500 mile (vtx) since it is NOT a true syn oil (group III).
You can go syn anytime but I would use dino for a while.
Pick a good dino for at least 3k miles but aome disagee.
In fact I switched to rotella 5w-40 at 1500 mile (vtx) since it is NOT a true syn oil (group III).
Do you need syn oil?
I've broken in two bikes in the last five years and both times ran two short fills of Dino and went to a PAO at 1500 on one and Ester at 1500 mi on the other. Is that right or wrong???? I don't know but the engines run just fine.
However.....The back of Red Line bottles say not to use until 3000 miles of break in. My riding friends all do similar things to what I have done, 1000 to 2000 on dino and then to a Group IV or Group V syn.
Like Caspian said, if going to a Group III syn I don't know why it would matter.
However.....The back of Red Line bottles say not to use until 3000 miles of break in. My riding friends all do similar things to what I have done, 1000 to 2000 on dino and then to a Group IV or Group V syn.
Like Caspian said, if going to a Group III syn I don't know why it would matter.
what intervals will you be doing? if doing 2-3K intervals a dino pcmo 10w40 or motospecific oil would work fine. Rotella, chevron delo 400, mobil delvac 1300 15W40's will work great too.
If doing 5K + i would use M1 or amsoil moto specific oils or another quality syn
If doing 5K + i would use M1 or amsoil moto specific oils or another quality syn
I will probably change at longer intervals. Is the consensus to wait until maybe 3000 miles and then go to a full synthetic? I'm ignorant to "group 3" and all the other nomenclature as you can probably tell from my post count. I've used Shell Rotella synthetic in my other bikes. I thought it was a full synthetic but I guess I was wrong. Anyone notice better performance or a smoother engine with a certain full synth oil?
Right now that oil is over due imo.
You should have changed that at 600 miles.
It is NOT a defacto as what miles to switch but BMW says 12k.
Some say 6K and others 3k and the rest anytime.
As long as it is not ester or pao I don't care when.
But what is the rush!! All dino's are good enough for a while like 3k miles. Important is to change often with new engine.
You should have changed that at 600 miles.
It is NOT a defacto as what miles to switch but BMW says 12k.
Some say 6K and others 3k and the rest anytime.
As long as it is not ester or pao I don't care when.
But what is the rush!! All dino's are good enough for a while like 3k miles. Important is to change often with new engine.
e4gulf I envy you. You are a truely free man if you don't have to worry about what is really syn and what isn't and all the other great oil debates. Group III synthetic is from crude oil pumped from the ground and highly refined.
I would dump that break-in oil out now and the Rotella should be fine to use. Then you can bump up the intervals to the manufacturers suggestion or whatever you feel is best.
I'm sure people will chime in on what syn oil is "best" if you choose to go there eventually.
I would dump that break-in oil out now and the Rotella should be fine to use. Then you can bump up the intervals to the manufacturers suggestion or whatever you feel is best.
I'm sure people will chime in on what syn oil is "best" if you choose to go there eventually.
dnewton3
Staff member
The question at hand is "when" to change to synthetic? But the underlying question is "should" you change to synthetic?
There are two reasons to run synthetics; extended OCIs, and temp extremes. Some would contend that wear protetion is a reason, but that is covered in the concept of extended OCIs.
If you're not going to extend your drain intervals, then there's little, if any, benefit to synthetic. And I don't buy into the whole "synthetics are better than dino's at temperature extremes" here, becuase no sane person is going to start up his motorcycle below freezing, so cold pumpability is just not an issue. And since this bike is liquid cooled and fuel injected, I also don't think that any rational person can argue that it's just "too hot" for a dino fluid. Assuming it's operating properly, a thermostatically controlled engine is going to run at 190-210 degrees F, regardless of where you're at or what you're doing.
For those that are doubters, I offer the experience of my friend in D.C. that currenly has 109k miles on his ST1100, running nothing but the dino GN-4 Honda oil changed every 8k miles. Honda oil certainly isn't "special", if you've ever seen a UOA; HDEO's are far better than that stuff. My point here is that he's run that far on what I consider to be low-grade dino stuff with run-of-the-mill filters. The SV-650 is probably no better or worse in design and build than the Honda. So, considering oil choice, don't tell me that dinos can't make a bike last.
You've bought an excellent little bike. That engine is very stout, and well designed. Reliability has been very good with that SV-650 based engine.
If you're going to OCI at or less than 5k miles, on the V-strom, there is no real reason to use synthetic in the first place.
However, if you're convinced (emotionally, and contrary to the facts) that you "need" to run synthetic, then I'd say switch whenever you want to. The reality is that it's not going to effect that bike positively or negatively to any degree that you (or it) will be able to discern, in daily operation. Just be willing to admit that you WANT synthetics, not that you NEED them.
The bottom line is that synthetics are not about making a piece of equipment last longer; it's about making the lubricant last longer. And if you're not going to extend your OCI, the point is just simply moot.
There are two reasons to run synthetics; extended OCIs, and temp extremes. Some would contend that wear protetion is a reason, but that is covered in the concept of extended OCIs.
If you're not going to extend your drain intervals, then there's little, if any, benefit to synthetic. And I don't buy into the whole "synthetics are better than dino's at temperature extremes" here, becuase no sane person is going to start up his motorcycle below freezing, so cold pumpability is just not an issue. And since this bike is liquid cooled and fuel injected, I also don't think that any rational person can argue that it's just "too hot" for a dino fluid. Assuming it's operating properly, a thermostatically controlled engine is going to run at 190-210 degrees F, regardless of where you're at or what you're doing.
For those that are doubters, I offer the experience of my friend in D.C. that currenly has 109k miles on his ST1100, running nothing but the dino GN-4 Honda oil changed every 8k miles. Honda oil certainly isn't "special", if you've ever seen a UOA; HDEO's are far better than that stuff. My point here is that he's run that far on what I consider to be low-grade dino stuff with run-of-the-mill filters. The SV-650 is probably no better or worse in design and build than the Honda. So, considering oil choice, don't tell me that dinos can't make a bike last.
You've bought an excellent little bike. That engine is very stout, and well designed. Reliability has been very good with that SV-650 based engine.
If you're going to OCI at or less than 5k miles, on the V-strom, there is no real reason to use synthetic in the first place.
However, if you're convinced (emotionally, and contrary to the facts) that you "need" to run synthetic, then I'd say switch whenever you want to. The reality is that it's not going to effect that bike positively or negatively to any degree that you (or it) will be able to discern, in daily operation. Just be willing to admit that you WANT synthetics, not that you NEED them.
The bottom line is that synthetics are not about making a piece of equipment last longer; it's about making the lubricant last longer. And if you're not going to extend your OCI, the point is just simply moot.
Last edited:
Water cooled engine= dino 15w40 HDEO for sure. Change at 3-4000 miles. No problems.
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
And I don't buy into the whole "synthetics are better than dino's at temperature extremes" here, becuase no sane person is going to start up his motorcycle below freezing, so cold pumpability is just not an issue.
I ride my bike year round and more than a few times it has been below freezing so I guess I'm "insane".
And I don't buy into the whole "synthetics are better than dino's at temperature extremes" here, becuase no sane person is going to start up his motorcycle below freezing, so cold pumpability is just not an issue.
I ride my bike year round and more than a few times it has been below freezing so I guess I'm "insane".
guilty as well.
coldest I rode last winter was 17.5* F
but I might in fact be insane.
I'm going to get heated gear for this winter though.
but I might in fact be insane.
I'm going to get heated gear for this winter though.
I've had to ride in sub freezing temps on occasion and do cold starts in the 40s quite often. guilty as charged - insane and I plan to use it as a defense when convenient. The synthetics probably give you some advantage here even if the pour points for either are well below these temps. It's not like we are using 5W20.
Quote:
When should I change to synthetic oil?
I change mine over between 500 - 1000 miles usually. On my '02 Bandit, I went at 2,000 (RTS 5-40, then Mobil 1 Red Cap 15-50), the '03 SV1000 (Castrol Actevo 10-40) at around 1,000; the latest 1000 'Strom (Actevo again) at 500 or so.
BTW - If you've been to any of the 'Strom forums, you see the fairly universal high regard for RTS 5-40. At the risk of incurring the RTS 5-40 devotees' rath, I will say that the M1 15-50 makes the Bandit shift even more smoothly than the RTS.
BTW #2 - On the subject of cold weather riding, during my younger years, if it was above 32 degrees, I was out there, and that was riding naked bikes. Now, I prefer 70's. And, the 'Strom even has a little fairing. Gettin' soft...
When should I change to synthetic oil?
I change mine over between 500 - 1000 miles usually. On my '02 Bandit, I went at 2,000 (RTS 5-40, then Mobil 1 Red Cap 15-50), the '03 SV1000 (Castrol Actevo 10-40) at around 1,000; the latest 1000 'Strom (Actevo again) at 500 or so.
BTW - If you've been to any of the 'Strom forums, you see the fairly universal high regard for RTS 5-40. At the risk of incurring the RTS 5-40 devotees' rath, I will say that the M1 15-50 makes the Bandit shift even more smoothly than the RTS.
BTW #2 - On the subject of cold weather riding, during my younger years, if it was above 32 degrees, I was out there, and that was riding naked bikes. Now, I prefer 70's. And, the 'Strom even has a little fairing. Gettin' soft...
Originally Posted By: RWEST
Quote:
When should I change to synthetic oil?
I change mine over between 500 - 1000 miles usually. On my '02 Bandit, I went at 2,000 (RTS 5-40, then Mobil 1 Red Cap 15-50), the '03 SV1000 (Castrol Actevo 10-40) at around 1,000; the latest 1000 'Strom (Actevo again) at 500 or so.
BTW - If you've been to any of the 'Strom forums, you see the fairly universal high regard for RTS 5-40. At the risk of incurring the RTS 5-40 devotees' rath, I will say that the M1 15-50 makes the Bandit shift even more smoothly than the RTS.
BTW #2 - On the subject of cold weather riding, during my younger years, if it was above 32 degrees, I was out there, and that was riding naked bikes. Now, I prefer 70's. And, the 'Strom even has a little fairing. Gettin' soft...
Actevo is a syn? thought it was a syn blend?
Quote:
When should I change to synthetic oil?
I change mine over between 500 - 1000 miles usually. On my '02 Bandit, I went at 2,000 (RTS 5-40, then Mobil 1 Red Cap 15-50), the '03 SV1000 (Castrol Actevo 10-40) at around 1,000; the latest 1000 'Strom (Actevo again) at 500 or so.
BTW - If you've been to any of the 'Strom forums, you see the fairly universal high regard for RTS 5-40. At the risk of incurring the RTS 5-40 devotees' rath, I will say that the M1 15-50 makes the Bandit shift even more smoothly than the RTS.
BTW #2 - On the subject of cold weather riding, during my younger years, if it was above 32 degrees, I was out there, and that was riding naked bikes. Now, I prefer 70's. And, the 'Strom even has a little fairing. Gettin' soft...
Actevo is a syn? thought it was a syn blend?
Originally Posted By: dnewton3
For those that are doubters, I offer the experience of my friend in D.C. that currenly has 109k miles on his ST1100, running nothing but the dino GN-4 Honda oil changed every 8k miles.
What the heck do we have left to argue about?
Darn you, man! You've taken all the fun out of this.
For those that are doubters, I offer the experience of my friend in D.C. that currenly has 109k miles on his ST1100, running nothing but the dino GN-4 Honda oil changed every 8k miles.
What the heck do we have left to argue about?
Darn you, man! You've taken all the fun out of this.
- Status
Similar threads
