Oil additive to clean out sludge and deposits

[BusyLittleShop]

Listed are the additives and quantities that are employed in our oils to tackle sludge...

Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive

HPL
Boron 235
Calcium 2910
Magnesium 22

Rotella T6
Boron 2
Calcium 3245
Magnesium 10

Mobil 1 4T
Boron 248
Calcium 2483
Magnesium 12

 

[victorforge]

Listed are the additives and quantities that are employed in our oils to tackle sludge...

Boron: Detergent/dispersant additive, antifreeze inhibitors
Calcium: Detergent/dispersant additive
Magnesium: Detergent/dispersant additive

HPL
Boron 235
Calcium 2910
Magnesium 22

Rotella T6
Boron 2
Calcium 3245
Magnesium 10

Mobil 1 4T
Boron 248
Calcium 2483
Magnesium 12

Would the cleaner be better than the oil?

 

[BusyLittleShop]

Would the cleaner be better than the oil?

I'd rank cleaning effectiveness in this order...

1) Disassemble engine and remove ALL the sludge decisively...
2) Oil choice to remove some of the sludge over time...
3) Flush to remove a questionable amount of the sludge...

Blackstone's test on engine flushes effectiveness...

 

[victorforge]

I'd rank cleaning effectiveness in this order...

1) Disassemble engine and remove ALL the sludge decisively...
2) Oil choice to remove some of the sludge over time...
3) Flush to remove a questionable amount of the sludge...

Blackstone's test on engine flushes effectiveness...

View attachment 198108
View attachment 198110

Thanks but the product I'm mentioning is not a flush. https://www.advlubrication.com/collections/automotive-lubricants/products/engine-cleaner

 

[KrisZ]

Awesome bike.
For such an old machine, I would just change the oil often and try to do it slowly. These engines are very tolerant to poor maintenance, are low stressed and very durable. They can take some dirty oil. The seals may not take too well to solvents though.

Edit:
Here is what the manual says about fuel, no mention of leaded fuel.

 

[bonjo]

if you use agressive engine flush, you risk to dislodge the grime and block smaller oil passages and challenge the old oil seals.
ideally BLS's suggestion is the best way. If parts cleaning is not possible or practicle, then a suitable grade oil (I would use quality mineral initially) with 600 then 1000 then 2000 OCI (with filter) and see how the bike engine responds.
The bike that old was designed to run on leaded petrol. Check to see if the engin can run on unleaded in case you need to either have the cylinder head reworked or use lead "subsititute" additives.

 

[02SE]

Hello,
I have a '74 BMW R60/6 that's rather low mileage but sat for 20 years. After receiving it, I changed the oil and ran it some. I then sent the oil in for analysis at the next change and dropped the oil pan after I found sludge in a valve cover. I found more sludge in the other valve cover after another oil change. (It's a boxer engine so 2 opposing valve covers) After research I have found a few different options.
1. Use an engine flush
2. Use diesel oil (Ie Shell Rotella T6)
3. Add Rislone or Seafoam to oil before oil change
4. Use Valvoline Premium blue restore

I'm leaning towards option 2 and 3. I would basically switch to Shell Rotella T6 at the next oil change. Run it for 100 to 200 miles or so. Then add seafoam, run it for a few miles, then change it. I attached my last oil analysis. Older test is from the original oil sitting inside the engine from when I got it.View attachment 197903

Having worked on engines that were sludged, and then aggressive cleaning fluids were employed, I'd just go with option #2.

In several cases where aggressive cleaning measures were used, the sludge was broken down just enough to start flowing through the engine, full of hard bits of sludge (like sand) and proceeded to wipe out bearings. Necessitating a rebuild.

The sludge in the pan doesn't appear terrible. I'm sure you cleaned the pan out. Rubbing the oil between your fingers, did you feel any hard particles? If you did, I'd mechanically clean any deposits from the engine you can reach (pan, valve covers), without completely disassembling it.

I'd do short OCI's with the HDEO, and drain it while the oil is still at full operating temperature, so any debris will hopefully be in suspension in the oil, and flow out.

Congrats on owning that time machine. I'm sure it being your Grandpa's, makes it even more special.

 

[DGXR]

I also would do regular maintenance and enjoy the bike, nothing more. That doesn't look like enough sludge to be a problem by itself, but it could become a problem if dislodged at once by a flush or cleaning-specific product.
She's a real sweetheart, just beautiful... I'm jealous. And sorry about your dad, mine passed last July. RIP awesome dudes.

 

[hrv]

Awesome bike.
For such an old machine, I would just change the oil often and try to do it slowly. These engines are very tolerant to poor maintenance, are low stressed and very durable. They can take some dirty oil. The seals may not take too well to solvents though.

Edit:
Here is what the manual says about fuel, no mention of leaded fuel.

View attachment 198968

Back then and maybe still available they made a slightly thicker base gasket for each head that lowered the compression a bit..for lower octane fuel also you can retard the timing a few degrees also ...

 

[victorforge]

I changed the oil last night. Seems my normal choice of oil is doing its job of cleaning. It was very dark. The filter was also dark, see photo below. I sent a sample to Blackstone. I'll post an update when I get the results.

As for the fuel. I'll be adding an octane booster. I'll be trying Amsoil motorcycle octane booster first. According to SDS, it's just diesel and MMT. I'll try VP racing octane booster next.

 

[victorforge]

Used VP racing Octanium octane booster on a brief ride yesterday. It gave the bike more guts. I found a place near me that sells 105-octane ethanol free leaded race fuel. $98 for 5 gallons is rather expensive though. Found a '78 R100s near me that I'm considering buying. I might be able to justify the cost for 2 bikes. I'd just dilute it with plain 93 octane as I've been told they don't need much.

 

[hank2]

I rode and wrenched on a'72 R75/5 for about 11 years. 20w50 is required. The zinc content of that Rotella tested is really not where you should be on the airhead. The Spectro oil used to be the go-to for airheads. Conventional and blend. I think the Golden Spectro is a blend. BMW used it as there labeled oil at one time.

They certainly depended on leaded fuel in the day. Some sort of lead substitute additive would be a good idea. The R60/5 or /6 was more detonation prone by a lot than the larger 750-800-900-1000 displacements. It had a few tenths of a point more static compression ratio. Perhaps 9.3/1 vs. 9./1 Later early 80's and up had reduced compression. A real popular fix for pinging on the R60 model was converting the cylinder heads to dual plugs with additional peanut plugs. That required a different ignition timing setting. My R75 needed 93 or 94 minimum octane, partly due to very quick ignition advance curve.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I'd give serious thought to several short intervals with Rotella and see how the oil looks coming out.

But Rotella neither claims nor is formulated to clean engines?

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Back then and maybe still available they made a slightly thicker base gasket for each head that lowered the compression a bit..for lower octane fuel also you can retard the timing a few degrees also ...

Cometic “used to” make a custom MLS gasket for just about anything, not sure if they still do. They’d basically just add layers of shim until they got to the thickness you wanted.

 

[victorforge]

I rode and wrenched on a'72 R75/5 for about 11 years. 20w50 is required. The zinc content of that Rotella tested is really not where you should be on the airhead. The Spectro oil used to be the go-to for airheads. Conventional and blend. I think the Golden Spectro is a blend. BMW used it as there labeled oil at one time.

They certainly depended on leaded fuel in the day. Some sort of lead substitute additive would be a good idea. The R60/5 or /6 was more detonation prone by a lot than the larger 750-800-900-1000 displacements. It had a few tenths of a point more static compression ratio. Perhaps 9.3/1 vs. 9./1 Later early 80's and up had reduced compression. A real popular fix for pinging on the R60 model was converting the cylinder heads to dual plugs with additional peanut plugs. That required a different ignition timing setting. My R75 needed 93 or 94 minimum octane, partly due to very quick ignition advance curve.

I currently use Liqui Moly 20w50 4T with an added half bottle of Lucas ZDDP additive. I’ll find out soon on my oil analysis if that’s sufficient.

That was my understanding with the R60/6. I get a lot of mixed answers from people regarding leaded vs unleaded and additives. Some claim thousands of miles with no valve seat recession. While others claim to have seen damage rather quickly. I’m not well versed enough to make any determinations. For now it’s 93 octane plus VP racing octanium which also claims to be a lead substitute.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I currently use Liqui Moly 20w50 4T with an added half bottle of Lucas ZDDP additive. I’ll find out soon on my oil analysis if that’s sufficient.

That was my understanding with the R60/6. I get a lot of mixed answers from people regarding leaded vs unleaded and additives. Some claim thousands of miles with no valve seat recession. While others claim to have seen damage rather quickly. I’m not well versed enough to make any determinations. For now it’s 93 octane plus VP racing octanium which also claims to be a lead substitute.

Do your bike a favor and leave the Lucas on the store shelf. Especially with ZDDP, additives can clash with a properly formulated motor oil and actually reduce the protection. If the Liqui-Moly meets your bike’s recommended oil specs, that’s all it needs.

In addition, Lucas is not exactly what you’d call a high-quality additive manufacturer. If the LM is not sufficient, find an oil that is sufficient without having to play backyard mixer.

 

[victorforge]

I’ll switch to valvoline vr1 at the next oil change then.

 

[hank2]

I currently use Liqui Moly 20w50 4T with an added half bottle of Lucas ZDDP additive. I’ll find out soon on my oil analysis if that’s sufficient.

That was my understanding with the R60/6. I get a lot of mixed answers from people regarding leaded vs unleaded and additives. Some claim thousands of miles with no valve seat recession. While others claim to have seen damage rather quickly. I’m not well versed enough to make any determinations. For now it’s 93 octane plus VP racing octanium which also claims to be a lead substitute.

The LM 4T ought to be good as it comes, I would think. I'd agree that adding additional ZDDP would not be good. An air-cooled motorcycle specific 20w50 "should" be where it needs to be with that. Personally, I'd strongly favor a syn blend. None of the wet clutch compatible thing necessary with the divorced gear oil airhead transmission. Personally, I'd strongly favor a syn blend. I realize you're looking for a cleaner. Without a top end disassembly, a decent cleaning may not be possible.

The lead substitute, at least sometimes, would be wise on this bike. The models in the early 80's had the most severe problem with valve seat recession. It technically wasn't classic valve seat recession, but I've forgotten the term used. '81 through '84.

 

[victorforge]

The LM 4T ought to be good as it comes, I would think. I'd agree that adding additional ZDDP would not be good. An air-cooled motorcycle specific 20w50 "should" be where it needs to be with that. Personally, I'd strongly favor a syn blend. None of the wet clutch compatible thing necessary with the divorced gear oil airhead transmission. Personally, I'd strongly favor a syn blend. I realize you're looking for a cleaner. Without a top end disassembly, a decent cleaning may not be possible.

The lead substitute, at least sometimes, would be wise on this bike. The models in the early 80's had the most severe problem with valve seat recession. It technically wasn't classic valve seat recession, but I've forgotten the term used. '81 through '84.

I've been doing some reading on Valvolines VR1 which has a much higher zinc content. However, it contains less detergents then regular PCMO or LM 4T. I guess I'll just stick with LM 4T for now. I'm not going to bother with any cleaners right now because based on that oil filter, LM 4T is doing a fine job cleaning.

I'm considering just going the leaded fuel route. Just add about a couple of ounces per gallon. Per Snowbaum, you don't need much at all. Just going try and obtain 100LL first.

 

[Revving2Redline]

Hello,
I have a '74 BMW R60/6 that's rather low mileage but sat for 20 years. After receiving it, I changed the oil and ran it some. I then sent the oil in for analysis at the next change and dropped the oil pan after I found sludge in a valve cover. I found more sludge in the other valve cover after another oil change. (It's a boxer engine so 2 opposing valve covers) After research I have found a few different options.
1. Use an engine flush
2. Use diesel oil (Ie Shell Rotella T6)
3. Add Rislone or Seafoam to oil before oil change
4. Use Valvoline Premium blue restore

I'm leaning towards option 2 and 3. I would basically switch to Shell Rotella T6 at the next oil change. Run it for 100 to 200 miles or so. Then add seafoam, run it for a few miles, then change it. I attached my last oil analysis. Older test is from the original oil sitting inside the engine from when I got it.View attachment 197903

I wouldn't put seafoam in anything. I would contact high performance lubricants and see if they have a recommendation for your application. if you hear nothing from them I would call BG or Liquimoly and I'm sure that they would have a suggestion or a product that you could use. onto a simpler yet more time consuming effort, I would recommend that you try a high detergent oil like red line but I don't think doing that quite yet is as important as just getting a bunch of oil filters and some oil and changing it out a lot. I would though recommend the red line fuel system cleaner for its high content of pea and my hope is that if you continuously run that in the gas tank that eventually it'll run down into the oil and slowly start to work some of that stuff free.