When and how have you personally deviated from the car owners manual

[OVERKILL]

For me, this all started with trying to compensate for high oil temperatures while towing. Not enough MOFT can cause problems. When I was working on my headlights upgrading them with LEDs, I noticed that they didn't install the grille shutter assembly correctly. The rubber on the side was folded all wrong as someone mashed it in there. I took out the assembly cleaned it up, sprayed silicone on it, removed the shutters in the middle, and put it back. The computer thinks that they're still there. So air is focused on the middle of the radiator now. If Chrysler would have bothered to code the software correctly to open them under certain conditions for better cooling I didn't need to do this. But when you go up a mountain and your oil temp climbs like crazy, along with coolant, and it gets to 245F, then 250F, and so on (some got it as high as 280F), and the shutters are still closed, you start to wonder: "what were they thinking?" So I escalated by going up in viscosity, albeit safely.

Long story short, I triggered re-learning for the cam twice today, It does it with the engine on at 1000 rpm if the temperature is at least 158C. Everything went fine. I have no codes or anything. I didn't have any codes before either. The cam turning delay that I see must be due to the software, and OBD II over Bluetooth isn't exactly lightning fast. I am saying this because I have Zero cam errors. MDS is still disabled, and the "Cam out of sync" status is still showing. And that's exactly how I think the PCM does it.

I think that for the 5.7 HEMI it needs 0/5W-20 mostly for the phaser to change the cam position and engage/disengage MDS faster than on the 6.4L so that it can have an edge on fuel economy. I think that the computer sets that "Cam out of sync" status to disable MDS and slow down the VVT system slightly as a safety precaution to avoid any damage, like engaging/disengaging MDS at the wrong time, with the cam in the wrong position for example. The reasoning behind it is above my pay grade so to speak.

Tomorrow, hopefully, nothing comes up and I have time to change the oil. After that, I will drive it around to bring it up to temperature and read the PCM values again and check if MDS works. If it fixes it, I'll leave the thermostat alone. Honestly, it can figure out the viscosity even with a 180F thermostat. I bet it has preset PSI (or kPa) ranges at certain temperature ranges (some tolerance for wear, differences between lubricant brands/formulations, etc). I'll see what 0/5W-20 I'll find tomorrow that's available, considering shortages and all.

Keep us posted. And yes, as I noted the ECM tracks temp and oil pressure and that's how it infers viscosity, I'm just wondering if something gets flagged if it never gets up to what it considers operating temperature. Just spitballing there though.

Yes, I recall the reason for you doing all this. Are you still planning on the coolant/oil heat exchanger?

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Keep us posted. And yes, as I noted the ECM tracks temp and oil pressure and that's how it infers viscosity, I'm just wondering if something gets flagged if it never gets up to what it considers operating temperature. Just spitballing there though.

It's not like I'm looking forward to changing the oil again, lol, but I have to give it a try. I had 5W-20 before, briefly, and the engine behaved differently. Now that I have a somewhat decent scanner tool, I can confirm if the viscosity is the culprit. I think that, at one point, Chrysler even had the check engine light come on if it detected a higher viscosity oil in the 5.7 HEMI, but then they did away with it. I guess that they may not have programmed the PCM for every model year the same way. I also know someone who's been running his Charger R/T 5.7 HEMI on Castrol EDGE 5W-40 since he got it in 2015, and he claims he never had an issue with it.

The problem is that guesswork leads to more guesswork and inaccurate results. I'll give it a shot and see what happens. I will post my findings here.

Yes, I recall the reason for you doing all this. Are you still planning on the coolant/oil heat exchanger?

If time allows for it, I sure will.

 

[Accent Abuser]

40-50 grade oil vs the recommended 20, Redline D6 instead SP-IV ATF and it's changed every 30k (fluid is supposedly lifetime), 35psi in the tires instead of 33psi. Manual doesn't give any interval for brake fluid exchange but I do it anyways. Manual states that after the first coolant flush coolant flushes should be done every 20k, which I think is stupid. It gets a yearly flush regardless of miles (I drive 50k+ a year). Only use 93 octane because it knocks under load at highway speeds on 87 & 89, despite the manual saying 87 is fine.

Also says to never roll down more than one power window at a time but I like to live dangerously and roll all four down at once, sometimes while running on Max AC for hours on end which it also advises against.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

@OVERKILL I think I may have jumped the gun a bit too soon on this one. So I took a 20-mile roundtrip with the truck and monitored the parameters closely, and I may be dealing with faulty software. It shows me that two out of four solenoids are active, MDS is active, but the conditions are not met to activate MDS. At light throttle in eight gear, I pushed the gear minus button on the steering wheel to verify this. I looked at my phone, and immediately, all MDS readings went to "False" and "Inactive."

Then the camshaft readings are odd. How can the exhaust cam have a position error but not the intake cam when the HEMI has a single cam that handles both?

It would be nice if I had another piece of software to verify this information. However, I believe I was wrong and that MDS is working just fine. I think that with 5W-20, things may happen a bit quicker, and being a lower viscosity oil, a small bump in fuel economy is to be expected. However, I don't think 0W-40 disables MDS and that JScan shows me faulty readings. I will contact them today to confirm this and post their reply here.

 

[OVERKILL]

@OVERKILL I think I may have jumped the gun a bit too soon on this one. So I took a 20-mile roundtrip with the truck and monitored the parameters closely, and I may be dealing with faulty software. It shows me that two out of four solenoids are active, MDS is active, but the conditions are not met to activate MDS. At light throttle in eight gear, I pushed the gear minus button on the steering wheel to verify this. I looked at my phone, and immediately, all MDS readings went to "False" and "Inactive."

Then the camshaft readings are odd. How can the exhaust cam have a position error but not the intake cam when the HEMI has a single cam that handles both?

It would be nice if I had another piece of software to verify this information. However, I believe I was wrong and that MDS is working just fine. I think that with 5W-20, things may happen a bit quicker, and being a lower viscosity oil, a small bump in fuel economy is to be expected. However, I don't think 0W-40 disables MDS and that JScan shows me faulty readings. I will contact them today to confirm this and post their reply here.


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Yes, that's often the problem with some of these aftermarket pieces of software, they are designed to be "Universal" so you end up with some weirdness and stuff that doesn't apply unfortunately.

Glad to see you picked-up on this before you went too far down that rabbit hole.

 

[Deleted member 89374]

Yes, that's often the problem with some of these aftermarket pieces of software, they are designed to be "Universal" so you end up with some weirdness and stuff that doesn't apply unfortunately.

I'm curious if JScan will reply and what they have to say.

Glad to see you picked-up on this before you went too far down that rabbit hole.

I got the truck up on the ramps anyway, as I wanted to mull this over one more time and was also expecting your input. Plus, I want to do a quick inspection to check for leaks or any other problems. As clean as the engine is and the oil, it would be a shame to dump it at this point. That FRAM FS2 does an excellent job and bought everyone in my area, lol. All of them are still the old style. The 0W-40 still looks brand new after 1000 miles since I changed the oil. It turns a blue shop towel green instead of brown. Running the engine cooler may have something to do with that as well. Plus, it's wasteful to throw away really, really good oil

 

[OVERKILL]

I'm curious if JScan will reply and what they have to say.


I got the truck up on the ramps anyway, as I wanted to mull this over one more time and was also expecting your input. Plus, I want to do a quick inspection to check for leaks or any other problems. As clean as the engine is and the oil, it would be a shame to dump it at this point. That FRAM FS2 does an excellent job and bought everyone in my area, lol. All of them are still the old style. The 0W-40 still looks brand new after 1000 miles since I changed the oil. It turns a blue shop towel green instead of brown. Running the engine cooler may have something to do with that as well. Plus, it's wasteful to throw away really, really good oil

Not the first time I've seen it green, I posted a pic of it looking green years back, lol

 

[Nayov]

All makes all models AF and Maxlife goes in everything I own, no exceptions.

 

[Bill_W]

Whenever the OM “suggests” a OEM fluid. Then allows for other fluids that meet the qualified specification.

 

[Tomioka]

0W20 in a Chevy and Toyota that calls for 5W30. Done it for a decade and a half and will continue to do so.

 

[stormgol]

i read the owners manual. it allows me to know all the grades they tolerate as a deviation. the mazda owners manual for my car also lists what grades are used in other countries in north america. so i take that into account. but i follow the manual. in canada for my car 5w30 is the prefered grade. but 0w30 and 10w30 can be used. so i run mobil 1 AFE 0w30 in the winter and valvoline advanced 10w30 in the spring, summer and early fall.

 

[Gene K]

I have a car that says 5W-20 preferred, 5W-30 permissible. However the msnual says you must switch back to 5W-20 at the next change.

I've been known to use 5W-30 for consecutive changes.

 

[FTTSHO]

I use 0w20 in my 2010 Ford Taurus SHO with the 3.5 Ecoboost Twin Turbo V6. My engine for the 2010 model year was and still is recommended by Ford to use 5w20. Starting 2011, Ford stated recommending 5w30 for ALL 3.5 Ecoboost engines.

Ford never disclosed why they changed the viscosity from 5w20 to 5w30 right after transitioning from 2010MY to 2011MY, but the most likely reason they made this change is because of fuel dilution issues. The funny thing is, Ford NEVER back spec'd the 2010MY cars to 5w30, which is kind of weird. Ford always "back spec'd" their older cars when ever they switched from 5w30 to 5w20 in the early 2000's, but they didn't do that for the 2010 3.5 Ecoboost engines.
Its most likely because Ford didn't want to risk any potential law suits "for making the wrong recommendations in the 2010MY cars". They didn't want the public to know about the change.

I'm technically not deviating from the 2010 owners manual, since my 2010 car was and still is recommended to run 5w20. But many 2010 owners are running 5w30 instead of 5w20.

I have been running 0w20 and 5w20 since day one, and my car just passed 100k miles. No issues whatsoever. I have done 2 oil analysis' during my 12 years of ownership, one with 5w20 and one with 0w20. I run my oils 4k-5k miles before changing the oil. Anyhow, both UOA's showed excellent results, way better than the universal averages for 3.5 Ecoboosts. Blackstone actually recommend me to stick with 20 weight oil, because it was honestly providing better wear protection than 30 weight oils, which is the most commonly run oils in the 3.5 ecoboosts.

I have tried running 5w30 one time at around 80k miles for 5k miles, but I didn't not like how the engine ran. The engine felt sluggish, turbos definitely did not spool up as fast, and there was always this sluggish dragging feel when you pushed the gas pedal. The car also shifted weird. The car shifted harder with 5w30. I did not think 5w30 would cause this much of a difference, but it did. I never in my life thought changing the viscosity would cause this much difference, but it did. So I decided to just stick with 20 weight oils. Also, using 5w30 caused my engine to burn oil, about half a quart every 3k miles. I had to buy a 1 quart bottle to top off the oil when I used 5w30, which is my first time having to buy a 1quart bottle to top off the engine. Using 5w20 and 0w20 does not cause any oil burning. The level stays exactly the same on the dip stick with 20 weight oils even after 5k miles which is when I like to do an oil change.

So far, I love how the engine runs and behaves with 0w20. And I'm not worried about running thin oils, because UOA showed absolutely spectacularly excellent results, way better than the Universal average for the 3.5 Ecoboost engine which is based on 5w30. I can't remember off the top of my head, but aluminum or iron was 1ppm, and the other one was 2ppm, and copper (from turbos) were 16ppm. That's pretty **** good.

The engine cranks faster with 0w20. The engine feels lively and active with 0w20. The turbo spooling noise is quieter with 0w20 (somehow). The car shifts beautifully and super softly with 0w20. 20 weight really works great in my engine, not just base on how the engine behaves when driving, but also UOA's are proving that 0w20 and 5w20 is better than 5w30 in my engine.

So far with 100k miles, the engine was opened up for the first time time at around 85k miles for the internal water pump replacement. When the engine was opened up, I had the chance to look at the cam shafts and the timing chain. Both showed absolutely no wear. The cam lobes had the typical wear "shade", but it looked perfect. The timing chain also did not stretch, which is very unusual with 3.5 Ecoboosts. Usually, timing chains need replacement at 80k miles on these engines, but not mine. So we decided to just reuse the timing chain. I never had to get anything else replaced on my engine.

All the horror stories of people needing turbo replacements before 100k miles and stuff on 3.5 ecoboost engines usually are from people who run 5w30, so I don't know. I think 0w20 or 5w20 is better for the turbos.

 

[Cygnus_]

Oil: My 04 Grand Caravan with the 3.3L V6 calls for 5w-30 year-round and says 10w-30 can be used when above 32F and for 3k/3 month intervals for severe service. Ive followed that up until the last few OCIs. Always ran 5w-30 synthetic when I started doing my own oil changes, usually a high-mileage flavor of some kind.

I switched to 5w-40 HDEO the last couple OCIs. Real short ones too. First HDEO changes I did I also ran some Hot Shots Stiction Eliminator in it and was amazed at how much sludge and gunk it pulled out of the engine. Seeing that, I did another two short OCIs with an engine flush at the time of change.

Now I have a half and half mix of Rotella T6 15w-40 and 5w-40 in it with a heavy-duty filter that I plan on running for 5k. Will get a UOA done at the next oil change to see how that works out. It's been rather cold here as well. As low as -10F for a few days in a row. Van still turned over as fast as usual when starting and the oil pressure light never stayed on longer than usual when starting either.

 

[Cuemark8]

Owners manual of my Ford vehicle specs 5W-20 or OW-20 for extreme cold. Is there any real difference?
I prefer to use OW-20 full synthetic at all times.
Not much deviation.
Where I do deviate is in oil filter. It's specs the ever popular Motorcraft FL910s filter.
Fram equivalent would be the PH/TG/XG3614. There is plenty of room and filter is up hihj on backside of engine, Nothing in the way. I use the larger, oversized FRAM TG/XG3600 filter.

 

[paulo57509]

Deviation is usually always time; you know the old, "change oil and filter every 7,500 miles or 6 months."

 

[Gene K]

Deviation is usually always time; you know the old, "change oil and filter every 7,500 miles or 6 months."

That's true. I'm much more willing to extend time than mileage. Once out of warranty of course.

I still remember that 4.5(?) year factory fill analysis on the Porsche. Patman wasn't it? It wasn't particularly low mileage either.