What makes SuperTech Synthetic "cheap"

[fdcg27]

Originally Posted By: Rex
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/supertech.htm

I suppose a manufacturer adds an additional additive or two, given their oil more of "something" which justifies the cost increase.

The difference goes well beyond an additive or two and extends to the quality of the basestock blend used, as evidenced by the relative performance of M1 and ST in the PQIA VOA series you've linked to.
Compare the M1 5W-30 to the ST 5W-30 in this same series of PQIA VOAs. The oils were bought on the same date probably on the same shopping trip to a NJ Walmart.
The M1 has higher TBN, a higher VI, lower NOACK and significantly lower viscosity at -30C as compared to the ST.
Additives?
The M1 has a balanced detergency package consisting of both calcium and magnesium while the ST relies upon calcium alone.
Both oils have a nice dose of boron, but only the M1 has a similar dose of moly, the ST having none.
Whether you look at physical characteristics or additive package, both as measured by an objective third party, the ST clearly lags the M1.
Does this make the M1 the better oil for the average family beater?
In terms of engine cleanliness, cold weather starts as well as reduced friction in the mixed or boundry layer regimes, I'd say that it does.
Is it worth another five or six bucks once or twice a year?
That's a matter of personal choice and personal priorities, but nobody can accurately state that ST is every bit as good as M1 when the objective results show otherwise.

 

[Rex]

Good post fdcg27 and your comparison outlines the answer of what makes it "cheaper".. Still a good oil, just a difference in base-stocks, additives, and advertising cost!


Originally Posted By: fdcg27
Originally Posted By: Rex
http://www.pqiamerica.com/March2013PCMO/supertech.htm

I suppose a manufacturer adds an additional additive or two, given their oil more of "something" which justifies the cost increase.

The difference goes well beyond an additive or two and extends to the quality of the basestock blend used, as evidenced by the relative performance of M1 and ST in the PQIA VOA series you've linked to.
Compare the M1 5W-30 to the ST 5W-30 in this same series of PQIA VOAs. The oils were bought on the same date probably on the same shopping trip to a NJ Walmart.
The M1 has higher TBN, a higher VI, lower NOACK and significantly lower viscosity at -30C as compared to the ST.
Additives?
The M1 has a balanced detergency package consisting of both calcium and magnesium while the ST relies upon calcium alone.
Both oils have a nice dose of boron, but only the M1 has a similar dose of moly, the ST having none.
Whether you look at physical characteristics or additive package, both as measured by an objective third party, the ST clearly lags the M1.
Does this make the M1 the better oil for the average family beater?
In terms of engine cleanliness, cold weather starts as well as reduced friction in the mixed or boundry layer regimes, I'd say that it does.
Is it worth another five or six bucks once or twice a year?
That's a matter of personal choice and personal priorities, but nobody can accurately state that ST is every bit as good as M1 when the objective results show otherwise.

 

[gallydif]

Originally Posted By: Shannow
I said what ???





Haha that literally had me in tears laughing.

 

[69GTX]

If the Super Tech had a little moly like many of the other higher Calcium oils I'd probably consider using it at some lower price.

There's also the question if any of the company sponsored racing teams out there use Super Tech in their race/performance cars. I know that the Corvette Racing Team uses Mobil 1...another advantage to M1.

 

[fdcg27]

I have no doubt that ST is a serviceable oil.
I've even used it myself a time or two in the far past, when it really was dirt-cheap for a syn, as was Rotella 5W-40 at the time.
It just irks me when people try to pretend that ST is somehow as good as or even better than M1, Edge or PP when that is clearly not the case.
The differences are well known and can be shown objectively.
They are not a matter of advertising and promotion.
Were it not for the basestock and additive suppliers doing the hard work to develop formulations for commercial contract blenders, oils like ST couldn't exist, while oils like M1 and PP would still be around, since both blenders have the basestock and add pack production capability as well as the lab resources to formulate finished motor oils.

 

[53' Stude]

It's amazing that people look at the color of a jug and "name brand" and sad to say that's all people look at. I would use ST if I could find the grade I needed. I have used M1 AFE in my car and didn't notice any "cold weather advantages" at all

 

[53' Stude]

No one said ST is "as good as or better than M1 or PP". It's cheaper is all and it's a GOOD OIL

 

[53' Stude]

Also a single VOA doesn't tell us anything; don't forget that

 

[Justin251]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I have no doubt that ST is a serviceable oil.
I've even used it myself a time or two in the far past, when it really was dirt-cheap for a syn, as was Rotella 5W-40 at the time.
It just irks me when people try to pretend that ST is somehow as good as or even better than M1, Edge or PP when that is clearly not the case.
The differences are well known and can be shown objectively.
They are not a matter of advertising and promotion.
Were it not for the basestock and additive suppliers doing the hard work to develop formulations for commercial contract blenders, oils like ST couldn't exist, while oils like M1 and PP would still be around, since both blenders have the basestock and add pack production capability as well as the lab resources to formulate finished motor oils.


Who does that though?

And for what it's worth what I'd say is that in most pcmo applications ST is just as good as mobil 1 or pp.

Most people just drive thier car at a reasonable speed a reasonable distance to work in a car/truck that is reasonably easy on oil.

My accent doesn't need to have the most expensive hard to get boutique oil loaded down with an addpack that makes oil aficionados squeal in order to do its intended job.

Which is to reliably get me back and forth to work and get 33mpg.

 

[53' Stude]

+1000 Justin251 which is why the Taurus has some Smittys Super S 5w30 in it. I even have some "monarch" made by Pennzoil to use up. My focus gets me 38.1 mpg lately and Taurus like 27-29mpg

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
I have no doubt that ST is a serviceable oil.
I've even used it myself a time or two in the far past, when it really was dirt-cheap for a syn, as was Rotella 5W-40 at the time.
It just irks me when people try to pretend that ST is somehow as good as or even better than M1, Edge or PP when that is clearly not the case.
The differences are well known and can be shown objectively.
They are not a matter of advertising and promotion.
Were it not for the basestock and additive suppliers doing the hard work to develop formulations for commercial contract blenders, oils like ST couldn't exist, while oils like M1 and PP would still be around, since both blenders have the basestock and add pack production capability as well as the lab resources to formulate finished motor oils.


Are you saying my engine will last longer with M1 with 10,000 mile OCI than with ST oil and 10,000 mile OCI? If not, why not just save the money. If so, do you have any data to support your claim?

Personally, if something was important, they'd make it part of the Sx spec.

 

[fdcg27]

XOM recommends 10K drains with M1.
Nobody makes any such recommendations for ST nor for any other store brand syn.
IOW, it isn't me making any claim.
Draw your own conclusions.
Your money, your engines, your worries.
Lots of things that are important are not included in API specs, which is the reason that more stringent maker's certs exist.
OTOH, two of your three Toys have exceeded their design life expectancy by a considerable number of miles.
What oil do you use and how long do you run it?

 

[Justin251]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
XOM recommends 10K drains with M1.
Nobody makes any such recommendations for ST nor for any other store brand syn.
IOW, it isn't me making any claim.
Draw your own conclusions.
Your money, your engines, your worries.
Lots of things that are important are not included in API specs, which is the reason that more stringent maker's certs exist.
OTOH, two of your three Toys have exceeded their design life expectancy by a considerable number of miles.
What oil do you use and how long do you run it?


That's because walmart, autozone, etc Are in the selling oil/products business not extending your oci business.

The extended oci is what is selling these oils for mobil, castrol, and pennzoil. Pricepoint is what is selling the in house Warren oils like supertech.

They don't care about the extended oci because thier intended target doesn't either. They are targeting a consumer group that wants good enough not best there is.

 

[Nate1979]

I've always wondered what type of warranty do you get in the rare chance there is an oil failure? Walmart?

 

[Leo99]

Originally Posted By: fdcg27
XOM recommends 10K drains with M1.
Nobody makes any such recommendations for ST nor for any other store brand syn.
IOW, it isn't me making any claim.
Draw your own conclusions.
Your money, your engines, your worries.
Lots of things that are important are not included in API specs, which is the reason that more stringent maker's certs exist.
OTOH, two of your three Toys have exceeded their design life expectancy by a considerable number of miles.
What oil do you use and how long do you run it?


First 200k to 225k miles they went to the local quick lube every 5000 miles. Now, I change their oil using dino. Either PYB for the Corolla or Valvoline HM for the Rav4. The Rav4 has leaky oil seals. No drips but there is a lot of oil residue leaking out.

I attribute their longevity to Toyota engineering and their predominance of highway miles.

The scientist in me says all the oils will function the same in the real world. Some oils might have more stringent specs but what will that mean in the real world to my engines.

 

[NMBurb02]

Originally Posted By: Justin251
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
XOM recommends 10K drains with M1.
Nobody makes any such recommendations for ST nor for any other store brand syn.
IOW, it isn't me making any claim.
Draw your own conclusions.
Your money, your engines, your worries.
Lots of things that are important are not included in API specs, which is the reason that more stringent maker's certs exist.
OTOH, two of your three Toys have exceeded their design life expectancy by a considerable number of miles.
What oil do you use and how long do you run it?


That's because walmart, autozone, etc Are in the selling oil/products business not extending your oci business.

The extended oci is what is selling these oils for mobil, castrol, and pennzoil. Pricepoint is what is selling the in house Warren oils like supertech.

They don't care about the extended oci because thier intended target doesn't either. They are targeting a consumer group that wants good enough not best there is.

And that goes back to the OP's original question:

Originally Posted By: Rex
So what makes this oil cost lower than the others?

And the answer is: because it is designed to be "good enough" and "not the best there is". fdcg27 is just pointing out that one is better than the other and that there is nothing wrong with saying that. The same goes with many things. Some auto parts are better designed and manufactured than others, which is often reflected in the price. Do I need a new alternator that can last 300,000 miles? I doubt it because my vehicles likely won't last that long, but what is wrong with someone making one and charging more for it?

 

[Justin251]

Originally Posted By: Nate1979
I've always wondered what type of warranty do you get in the rare chance there is an oil failure? Walmart?


It would be your dime proving it was the oil.

They ain't worried about that. I'm certain every decently reputable oil like the supertech Warren supplies to Walmart had a competent qa system in place to prevent "bad oil" from making it to the market.

 

[Justin251]

Originally Posted By: NMBurb02
Originally Posted By: Justin251
Originally Posted By: fdcg27
XOM recommends 10K drains with M1.
Nobody makes any such recommendations for ST nor for any other store brand syn.
IOW, it isn't me making any claim.
Draw your own conclusions.
Your money, your engines, your worries.
Lots of things that are important are not included in API specs, which is the reason that more stringent maker's certs exist.
OTOH, two of your three Toys have exceeded their design life expectancy by a considerable number of miles.
What oil do you use and how long do you run it?


That's because walmart, autozone, etc Are in the selling oil/products business not extending your oci business.

The extended oci is what is selling these oils for mobil, castrol, and pennzoil. Pricepoint is what is selling the in house Warren oils like supertech.

They don't care about the extended oci because thier intended target doesn't either. They are targeting a consumer group that wants good enough not best there is.

And that goes back to the OP's original question:

Originally Posted By: Rex
So what makes this oil cost lower than the others?

And the answer is: because it is designed to be "good enough" and "not the best there is". fdcg27 is just pointing out that one is better than the other and that there is nothing wrong with saying that. The same goes with many things. Some auto parts are better designed and manufactured than others, which is often reflected in the price. Do I need a new alternator that can last 300,000 miles? I doubt it because my vehicles likely won't last that long, but what is wrong with someone making one and charging more for it?


Nothing wrong at all. I'm just saying that in house oils like supertech shouldn't be compared in the grand scheme because they are aimed at two entirely different demographics with two entirely different price points.

It's cheaper because it's designed to meet a price point that's profitable and still good enough for the average consumer without damaging a vehicle.

Pretty simple. Better or worse is all relative.

 

[Kruse]

Originally Posted By: Justin251
I'm certain every decently reputable oil like the supertech Warren supplies to Walmart had a competent qa system in place to prevent "bad oil" from making it to the market.


Occasionally, it happens.
https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/ubbthreads.php/topics/1347447/1

 

[MolaKule]

Originally Posted By: njohnson
Mag 1 is another company that shows test results on their website.

http://mag1.com/TestResults.aspx


Mag1 = SuperTech Synthetic and they are made by the same company if the bottles' have "WPP" on the bottom.