Approved vs. "Meets or Exceeds / Recommended"

[Hoster987]

Searched through the forum and I think I understand most of the comments. In addition, referring to some other sources (e.g., Lake Speed Jr’s youtube), I have concluded the following and would be good to get some validation / advice / feedback:

1. Approved – easy and basically the oil manufacturers / mixers submitted samples, supported / paid for the testing by manufacturers (e.g., Porsche A40) and passed
2. Meets or exceeds, or recommended – this seems somewhat grey (and some BITOG posting says this is "BS" which I understand)
3. Some manufacturers and/or “mixers” theoretically think the oil is good because their oils have similar formulation AND/ OR
4. Mixers receive already approved additive package(s) from say….the Big 4 (Lubrizol, Afton, Oronite, Infineum) which is the base for various car manufacturer standards (e.g., Porsche, MB, VW, etc.)
5. Then mix with additional additives for their liking / marketing
6. Consequently, if a company receives / uses an “approved” additive package (e.g., the Porsche A40 additive package), then this company can classify / define its oil as “meets or exceeds” and/or “ recommended” (e.g., Driven DT40??)
7. Once I sent an email to Shell / Pennzoil asking “why does PP 5W40 Euro have the Porsche A40 approval but not your PP 0W40” and the answer was basically “we decided not to submit samples” – this may be more business-related (e.g., Porsche / Mobil vs. Ferrari / Shell?) but what do I know
8. Do car manufacturers make money and/or at least cover their R&D costs by having these (GM, Nissan, MB, VW, etc.) “approved” oil programs and asking oil companies to participate in testing (e.g., they can continuously operate their engine testing labs without idling and have oil companies fund via the approval / certification process)? I certainly don’t remember seeing so many manufacturer “approved” labels on the oil in the old days

I am not at all a picky oil head and just use what’s easily available, on-sale, rebates, etc. but this question / thought just randomly occurred to me….

 

[OVERKILL]

"Meets or Exceeds" is common language on approvals that a manufacturer can self-certify for, so like for example, the API and ACEA approvals (and the odd OE approval like the Ford WSS ones). Here's Mobil 1 0W-40 for example:

"Recommended for" or "for use where" or other variations of that language is NOT the same as "Meets or Exceeds" and you'll see those used on products that aren't actually formally approved.

 

[Mike_dup1]

There another motive for OEM to use the approved list. Drive business to their dealer, service monopoly.
The birth of dexos...................

 

[CKN]

There another motive for OEM to use the approved list. Drive business to their dealer, service monopoly.
The birth of dexos...................

No...not really. Dexos approved oil is avilable at just about everywhere that sells oil. And it's not substianlly more expenisvie. Maybe in the beginning-but the monoploy has gone away.

 

[Quattro Pete]

No...not really. Dexos approved oil is avilable at just about everywhere that sells oil.

Yup, and the oil manufacturer has to pay royalties to GM, regardless if that oil is sold through dealerships, gas stations, or retail stores, unless something has changed recently.

 

[slacktide_bitog]

It depends on the mfr. For example, Porsche doesn't charge the oil companies for the approval.

 

[bullwinkle]

There another motive for OEM to use the approved list. Drive business to their dealer, service monopoly.
The birth of dexos...................

Just remember-if they force you to use theirs, it has to be free (Magnuson-Moss Act)! Good news is there’s enough Dexos approved oil available, it’s still possible to get good deals on it. AFAIK ALL the oil I use is Dexos approved, with the exception of the random 15W40 I put in the old F-450. In my experience, the dealer is probably the worst place to get oil changes-they seem to put their worst & least experienced techs on LOFs, and they are prone to breaking things when they do it.

 

[Hootbro]

Just remember-if they force you to use theirs, it has to be free (Magnuson-Moss Act)!

They are not forcing you to buy specific "XYZ" brand oil, but an oil that meets a specification.

 

[factorytuned2012]

when I read (Approved, Meets or Exceeds) my automotive thesaurus says Good to use.

 

[CKN]

Yup, and the oil manufacturer has to pay royalties to GM, regardless if that oil is sold through dealerships, gas stations, or retail stores, unless something has changed recently.

True...but the point is it really doesn't make it more expensive to the end user.

 

[dubber09]

Sometimes they say 'Specifications' only, this is one of Shell's best oils, a.k.a. Pennzoil Euro LX:

or

that's good enough to me.

 

[2.7ecoboostFordBronco]

One thing that was mentioned in a recent popular oil-related youtube channel's video, was that for API certifications (to get the donut on the bottle) only one grade of a particular formulation needed to be submitted for engine and lab testing, for example 5W-20. After that other grades (e.g. 5W-30) would automatically be approved without going through testing, and have the API donut on the bottle. It was not clear to me how much could change between grades before new testing would be required by API, but it seemed the additive package needed to remain somewhat constant.

Appparently that's not the case with Dexos; each grade has to go through it's own testing to bear the Dexos aproval. It's not clear to me how much this costs, but I'm hearing somewhere in the $1,000,000-$5,000,000 range for each type of oil that attempts API or Dexos certification. To get a whole lineup of oils of varying viscosities dexos certified would then be a lot more expensive than just getting the API certification.

 

[CKN]

Just remember-if they force you to use theirs, it has to be free (Magnuson-Moss Act)! Good news is there’s enough Dexos approved oil available, it’s still possible to get good deals on it. AFAIK ALL the oil I use is Dexos approved, with the exception of the random 15W40 I put in the old F-450. In my experience, the dealer is probably the worst place to get oil changes-they seem to put their worst & least experienced techs on LOFs, and they are prone to breaking things when they do it.

Yet-I have had dozens of oil changes at dealers-many out of state when pulling my travel trailer and have had zero issues. So-just keep repeating your last sentence and maybe it will become true.
There are plenty of threads on here that start out something like..."help me how I do I fix this because I screwed up?"

 

[AZjeff]

And in my lifetime I did not do 2 oil changes, both done at dealerships, and one of them was screwed up. Our OC experiences cancel each other out

 

[Foxtrot08]

"Meets or Exceeds" is common language on approvals that a manufacturer can self-certify for, so like for example, the API and ACEA approvals (and the odd OE approval like the Ford WSS ones). Here's Mobil 1 0W-40 for example:
View attachment 259798

"Recommended for" or "for use where" or other variations of that language is NOT the same as "Meets or Exceeds" and you'll see those used on products that aren't actually formally approved.

Don’t forget “suitable for use.”

 

[The Critic]

Don’t forget “suitable for use.”

A certain boutique blender was the pioneer of that phrase, correct?

 

[Foxtrot08]

A certain boutique blender was the pioneer of that phrase, correct?

Just look at serviced pro’s ATF list. I don’t know how a product can meet DM3 and ULV at the same time. Let alone be “suitable for use.”

 

[Hoster987]

Just remember-if they force you to use theirs, it has to be free (Magnuson-Moss Act)! Good news is there’s enough Dexos approved oil available, it’s still possible to get good deals on it. AFAIK ALL the oil I use is Dexos approved, with the exception of the random 15W40 I put in the old F-450. In my experience, the dealer is probably the worst place to get oil changes-they seem to put their worst & least experienced techs on LOFs, and they are prone to breaking things when they do it.

Really? Those dealers assign inexperienced newbies??? I only, personally experienced:

1) ACURA: stripped drain plug (and they charged me like $25 for a new drain plug which is more expensive than a LN Engineering Porsche drain plug),
2) PORSCHE: "almost" stripped aluminum hex drain plug (a friend's Porsche) - we spent almost an hour, "carefully and slowly" trying to loosen
3) SUBARU: an over-torqued drain plug for a new car after the first oil change at the dealer - for his second oil change, we tried for 2+ hours, couldn't loosen it and my friend ended up welding a long bar to the drain plug at his work...Subaru issued my friend a $500 certificate
4) AUDI: an over-torqued oil filter

 

[Hoster987]

Don’t forget “suitable for use.”

Yeah...a bottle of canola oil in our kitchen says that... ;-)

 

[userfriendly]

A certain boutique blender was the pioneer of that phrase, correct?

I suppose, if you want to call Petro-Canada a boutique blender.
I’m sure they’ve been called worse things.