What makes extended oil drain oil extended.

[littleant]

What makes extended oil drain oils extended. Stronger add pack? Because its synthetic? Better cleaning?. Is Quaker State UD consider an extended drain oil. Thanks

 

[wemay]

Specific equipment (PFI vs GDI and/or Turbo...) and how it's used, i.e., severe service vs normal etc. For confirmation on how long an oil can go in your application, a few UOA at more conservative mileage would serve you better than any marketing claims, lab testing or slick wording on labels. This will give you confidence moving forward since you will also have data to back up your decision.

 

[JohnnyJohnson]

Originally Posted By: wemay

Specific equipment (PFI vs GDI and/or Turbo...) and how it's used, i.e., severe service vs normal etc. For confirmation on how long an oil can go in your application, a few UOA at a more conservative mileage would serve you better than any marketing claims or slick wording on labels.

 

[oil_film_movies]

Originally Posted By: littleant

What makes extended oil drain oils extended. Stronger add pack? Because its synthetic? Better cleaning?. Is Quaker State UD consider an extended drain oil. Thanks

Chemistry. ... Oxidation resistance, which mean using expensive base oils like PAO, and using advanced anti-oxidant chemicals thrown in. Also, the anti-wear chemicals must be robust, and the Viscosity Index Improver chemicals as well. Then, there must be plenty of antacid overbased stuff to continue to buffer acid buildup over time, and the amount of sulphur (H2SO4 formed) in gasoline plays a big role in that, as U.S. gasoline is mostly very low-sulphur now. In a nutshell: chemical stability under heat and stress over time makes an Extended Oil like M1 EP, M1 Ann Prot, and Amsoil SS.

 

[dlundblad]

HTHS above 3.5 cSt?

 

[Kamele0N]

Acea a3/b4

 

[ndfergy]

TBN greater than 8 would be my guess. As far as conventional vs synthetic? Probably more vehicle specific. Case in point: my Yaris' OCI is 16,000km on their conventional 5W-30 oil for normal operation. My wife has the same OCI but with 0W-20 synthetic.

 

[Silk]

I thought it was just ignorance or economics...or maybe the lube sticker fell off or became unreadable. I see lots of extended oil changes...they leave my workshop 20,000km over and i never see them again. How far did they go....?

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: littleant

What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4 http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf Shear stable VII High TBN Low Noack High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up) With a HTHS reserve All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.

 

[chrisri]

Originally Posted By: SR5

Originally Posted By: littleant

What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4 http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf Shear stable VII High TBN Low Noack High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up) With a HTHS reserve All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.

We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)! I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.

Yeah I hear you mate. And I shake my head at these long OCI's on C3 oils and shocked at C2 oils. I assume this is for Europe only with it's super high quality and low sulphur fuel. Some reports here on BITOG suggest they are not doing as well as the A3/B4 oils (from memory) but maybe they just have to be "acceptable". Some of those low-SAPS & high-HTHS Porsche C30 & VW 504 / 507 oils are very high quality and seem to require very good base oils to get the job done. They are usually a high content PAO (Group IV) based oils. The high-SAPS versions being A3/B4 and Porsche A40 etc can seem to get away with Group III Hydrocracked synthetics. My preference is for a PAO based A3/B4 such as Castrol Edge 0W40 to get the best of both worlds.

 

[blupupher]

For me, it mainly depends on my driving style. When I was driving 350 miles/week all highway, I did 10,000 mile intervals on my '04 Elantra using several different synthetic oils. On my truck, I only drive maybe 350 miles a month, mostly short trips, so I change it every 4000 or so. Now days is also depends on the engine. On a direct engine turbo, I would not do 10,000 miles even if all highway.

 

[Linctex]

Originally Posted By: SR5

[quote=chrisri] My preference is for a PAO based A3/B4 such as Castrol Edge 0W40 to get the best of both worlds.

Nice... the Castrol Edge 10W-40 oil (clearance $2.00 qt) at Autozone is ACEA A3/B4

 

[RichardS]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

Originally Posted By: SR5

Originally Posted By: littleant

What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4 http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf Shear stable VII High TBN Low Noack High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up) With a HTHS reserve All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.

We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)! I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.

Wait, 50k km oil change interval?!

 

[Joekar]

So if I want to do 10,000 mile changes in my gently driven 2008 Tundra these oils you mention above would be a smarter choice than Penzoil Platinum Ultra for the reasons you specify? I'm learning...

 

[JFAllen]

Originally Posted By: RichardS

Wait, 50k km oil change interval?!

I remember looking at a new BMW diesel's service book. 40,000kms (25,000miles) (rings a bell) or 12 months. So basically it equates to a 12month service interval for +95% of customers. That's 110kms a day, everyday for a year. Not many people would come close to that that aren't delivery drivers, rentals, taxi's or other occupation that's required to be in the road a great deal or in fleet operation. Keep in mind that the base oil rarely degenerates. It's the depletion of the anti wear additives, the breakdown of VII's/PPD's and contamination (soot/coke) that cause problems. Regards Jordan

 

[RichardS]

We just aren't used to that here in the US. On the rare occasion one of the cars gets taken to a quick lube, they comment suggest ignoring the oil minder, and still push 3/3,000. They just finally lowered the sulfur in our gas to below 10ppm last year.

 

[SR5]

Originally Posted By: Joekar

So if I want to do 10,000 mile changes in my gently driven 2008 Tundra these oils you mention above would be a smarter choice than Penzoil Platinum Ultra for the reasons you specify? I'm learning...

I believe in Europe a typical OCI would be about 20,000 miles or 2 years on A3/B4 synthetic oil (or C3 oil with very low sulphur fuel). All the big names make Euro rated oils, including Penzoil Platinum Euro 5W40 (PP-Euro PDF) All the best (PP-Euro 5W40, Shell Helix Ultra 5W40, M1 0W40, Castrol Edge 0W40, etc) carry the very high European OEM standards as well, such as BMW LL-01, MB 229.5, Porsche A40 etc (for C3 it's -04, .51 & C30 respectively). These Euro OEM standards force a much higher quality oil. For example the Noack volatility limit is 15% for API SN, 13% for Dexos, but 10% for MB 229.5 for a more stable and less volatile oil. The only thing is that none of these oils are ILSAC GF-5 rated, and some like Castrol Edge 5W30 A3/B4 are not even SN rated (they carry about 1000 ppm ZDDP which is above the ILSAC limit) but I still think they are some of the best oils in the world and I would happily run them in almost any vehicle from a mechanical perspective. I would stick to the owners manual inside warranty though. I think the new M1 AP series finds the middle ground between the Euro long-life oils and the American resource conserving ILSAC oils.

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted By: chrisri

Originally Posted By: SR5

Originally Posted By: littleant

What makes extended oil drain oils extended.

A3/B4 http://www.acea.be/uploads/news_documents/ACEA_European_oil_sequences_2016.pdf Shear stable VII High TBN Low Noack High SAPS for strong ZDDP & Detergent add pack (the ZDDP is an antioxidant to protect the oil, anti-wear to protect the metal, and quenches LSPI - while the detergent fights acid build up) With a HTHS reserve All formulated around quality base oils to resist oxidation and deposit formation.

We are getting PUG Expert 2018 (1.6 hdi) and PUG Boxer (one is 3.0 IVECO, no idea for the other). Expert's OCI is 40k km, Boxer's 50k km. On C3 (possibly C2 oils)! I agree with your post completely, but OEMs recommendations go completely different way- low HTHS, low/mid SAPS and very long OCIs.

+1 on ACEA A3B4 and C3 vis-a-vis API SN. SR5, mind sharing incidences of relative 'weakness' of C3 against A3B4 ..... not doubting your statements though.