I have come across this term "hard" on oil many times in this forum. What exactly makes an engine hard on oil besides a turbo charger? It seems that most of the so called beaters of oil are European makes. Why is this? How come they don't perfect their engines to run lower viscosity oils for better fuel economy? The Japanese have done it, so why haven't the European automobile manufactures adopted this technology?
What makes an Engine "Hard" on Oil?
- Thread starter Marukai
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One thing that makes an engine "easy" or "hard" on oil is differences in the way posters choose to interpret UOA numbers.
I have noted on here before that numerous friends and coworkers from Europe who have moved here are amazed how much longer their vehicles last over here. Seems they tend to do that when you don't drive at 150 mph on the Autobahn with frequency. I have had several tell me that in Germany, they would wear out a car in less than 100,000 km! (km, not miles). I suspect that the engines and the oil requirements are in place to handle this.
I once got into a new Mercedes taxi in Dusseldorf. It was less tha a week old. SInce I speak some German, I asked the driver why he was going about 160 kph in a car less than a week old. In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in! I asked him how fast he would run it at a month old and he replied that he would go 240 kph on the Autobahn every day. If I remember, that is about 145 mph! I have been in numerous cars at that speed on the Autobahn.
I once got into a new Mercedes taxi in Dusseldorf. It was less tha a week old. SInce I speak some German, I asked the driver why he was going about 160 kph in a car less than a week old. In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in! I asked him how fast he would run it at a month old and he replied that he would go 240 kph on the Autobahn every day. If I remember, that is about 145 mph! I have been in numerous cars at that speed on the Autobahn.
Originally Posted By: Marukai
I have come across this term "hard" on oil many times in this forum. What exactly makes an engine hard on oil besides a turbo charger?
Off the top of my head:
- high temperatures or hot spots that oil my contact (hot piston undersides cooled by oil, exhaust passage walls that are exposed to the oil in the valve cover, etc.)
- high pressure sliding contact (gear drives, non-roller chain drives, flat tappet cams- cylinder walls are NOT high-pressure sliding contact- cam/follower contact is higher pressure by a factor of 10 at least)
- high shear (helical gear drives, flat tappets again, high oil pressure, oil sprayers, etc.).
- small sump capacity
I have come across this term "hard" on oil many times in this forum. What exactly makes an engine hard on oil besides a turbo charger?
Off the top of my head:
- high temperatures or hot spots that oil my contact (hot piston undersides cooled by oil, exhaust passage walls that are exposed to the oil in the valve cover, etc.)
- high pressure sliding contact (gear drives, non-roller chain drives, flat tappet cams- cylinder walls are NOT high-pressure sliding contact- cam/follower contact is higher pressure by a factor of 10 at least)
- high shear (helical gear drives, flat tappets again, high oil pressure, oil sprayers, etc.).
- small sump capacity
Originally Posted By: Boomer
I have noted on here before that numerous friends and coworkers from Europe who have moved here are amazed how much longer their vehicles last over here. Seems they tend to do that when you don't drive at 150 mph on the Autobahn with frequency. I have had several tell me that in Germany, they would wear out a car in less than 100,000 km! (km, not miles). I suspect that the engines and the oil requirements are in place to handle this.
I once got into a new Mercedes taxi in Dusseldorf. It was less tha a week old. SInce I speak some German, I asked the driver why he was going about 160 kph in a car less than a week old. In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in! I asked him how fast he would run it at a month old and he replied that he would go 240 kph on the Autobahn every day. If I remember, that is about 145 mph! I have been in numerous cars at that speed on the Autobahn.
It probably becomes difficult to pass the TÜV testing that owners have to perform periodically. It may be easier to dump the car and get a new one than to pass the TÜV.
I doubt the cars are worn out, but the owners may not think it's cost effective to bring the car up to passing standard.
I have noted on here before that numerous friends and coworkers from Europe who have moved here are amazed how much longer their vehicles last over here. Seems they tend to do that when you don't drive at 150 mph on the Autobahn with frequency. I have had several tell me that in Germany, they would wear out a car in less than 100,000 km! (km, not miles). I suspect that the engines and the oil requirements are in place to handle this.
I once got into a new Mercedes taxi in Dusseldorf. It was less tha a week old. SInce I speak some German, I asked the driver why he was going about 160 kph in a car less than a week old. In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in! I asked him how fast he would run it at a month old and he replied that he would go 240 kph on the Autobahn every day. If I remember, that is about 145 mph! I have been in numerous cars at that speed on the Autobahn.
It probably becomes difficult to pass the TÜV testing that owners have to perform periodically. It may be easier to dump the car and get a new one than to pass the TÜV.
I doubt the cars are worn out, but the owners may not think it's cost effective to bring the car up to passing standard.
Originally Posted By: Boomer
In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in!
When Germans joke they make it look more serious than ever. It was his way to politely say 'None of your business'. Taxis there are mostly very well overhauled (in Austria) diesel MBs. It would ruin him financially to buy a new one.
In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in!
When Germans joke they make it look more serious than ever. It was his way to politely say 'None of your business'. Taxis there are mostly very well overhauled (in Austria) diesel MBs. It would ruin him financially to buy a new one.
Originally Posted By: Marukai
I have come across this term "hard" on oil many times in this forum. What exactly makes an engine hard on oil besides a turbo charger?
Heat
Pressure
Shearing
Contamination
These four can be factors inherent in a design (diesels are notorious for pressure and shearing), or can be the result of maintenance and driving issues.
Don't maintain the cooling system and you have a heat problem.
Drive like a maniac and you have heat, pressure, and shearing.
I have come across this term "hard" on oil many times in this forum. What exactly makes an engine hard on oil besides a turbo charger?
Heat
Pressure
Shearing
Contamination
These four can be factors inherent in a design (diesels are notorious for pressure and shearing), or can be the result of maintenance and driving issues.
Don't maintain the cooling system and you have a heat problem.
Drive like a maniac and you have heat, pressure, and shearing.
Originally Posted By: Boomer
I have noted on here before that numerous friends and coworkers from Europe who have moved here are amazed how much longer their vehicles last over here. Seems they tend to do that when you don't drive at 150 mph on the Autobahn with frequency. I have had several tell me that in Germany, they would wear out a car in less than 100,000 km! (km, not miles). I suspect that the engines and the oil requirements are in place to handle this.
I once got into a new Mercedes taxi in Dusseldorf. It was less tha a week old. SInce I speak some German, I asked the driver why he was going about 160 kph in a car less than a week old. In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in! I asked him how fast he would run it at a month old and he replied that he would go 240 kph on the Autobahn every day. If I remember, that is about 145 mph! I have been in numerous cars at that speed on the Autobahn.
The moron drivers around here can barely handle 65 mph, I can't imagine going that fast!
John
I have noted on here before that numerous friends and coworkers from Europe who have moved here are amazed how much longer their vehicles last over here. Seems they tend to do that when you don't drive at 150 mph on the Autobahn with frequency. I have had several tell me that in Germany, they would wear out a car in less than 100,000 km! (km, not miles). I suspect that the engines and the oil requirements are in place to handle this.
I once got into a new Mercedes taxi in Dusseldorf. It was less tha a week old. SInce I speak some German, I asked the driver why he was going about 160 kph in a car less than a week old. In all seriousness, he replied that it was a car he personally bought/operatedand he was keeping the speed down until it was broken in! I asked him how fast he would run it at a month old and he replied that he would go 240 kph on the Autobahn every day. If I remember, that is about 145 mph! I have been in numerous cars at that speed on the Autobahn.
The moron drivers around here can barely handle 65 mph, I can't imagine going that fast!
John
Heat is #1.
High heat is from lots of sustained full throttle, faulty cooling, forced air injection.
Contaminants and particulate matter #2.
Carbon, blow by , etc.
High heat is from lots of sustained full throttle, faulty cooling, forced air injection.
Contaminants and particulate matter #2.
Carbon, blow by , etc.
Fuel dillution from forced induction or direct injection.
High oil temperatures from overworked engines/undersized sumps.
Shear, basically a function of engine design.
Sump size. Most long oci designed engines are "easy on oil" because they have huge sumps.
High oil temperatures from overworked engines/undersized sumps.
Shear, basically a function of engine design.
Sump size. Most long oci designed engines are "easy on oil" because they have huge sumps.
cold starts- short run times.
Timing chain vs timing belt-
Flat tappet cams definitely deplete additives in the oil much quicker. Roller cams are far easier on the oil.
Supposedly, my Toyota 4A-FE is hard on oil because of how the driven camshaft drives the other camshaft and shears the oil.
I tend to believe it as the oil consumption is not linear, but increases during the OCI. The first quart lost may take 2K+ but then increases to 1 quart every 1K to 1500 miles.
I tend to believe it as the oil consumption is not linear, but increases during the OCI. The first quart lost may take 2K+ but then increases to 1 quart every 1K to 1500 miles.
My parents owned a '75 Mercedes 200 (2 liter gasoline, 100 hp) in Germany and drove it 360,000 km without any problems. Autobahn speeds would be as fast as it would go, about 170 kph. No oil use and the original clutch, however it was rusted badly after 5 years and barely passed the biennial TÜV inspection.
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Turbo charges engines are hard on oil I`d guess because of the oil temps.
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