Simple case of not changing the oil as often as needed! IMHO
What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?
- Thread starter Adam_in_NH
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Friends, I am trying to post the pics I took this morning. Sorry I'm new at this and am trying to figure out how.
Adam,
I know jus how you feel. My 01' Durango V-8 had bad engine damage around the 90K myself. Mine was caused by fuel usage as it was claimed by the mechanic. The sump always got Mobil 1 synthetic since it went off warranty. Don't want to open a can of worms again but having no OLM and went strictly by the manual for maintenance at the dealership and it still went bad.
Anyway my truck is working fine now but it did cost me a few bucks to get it working again.
In your ccase I think your issue was due to short distances traveled and not enough time for the oil to heat up and circulate through out the engine. If you decide to repair it I would in the future about once per month take it out on the freeway for a good drive. This is basically whhat I do when I can for a couple hours. This way too I burn away a few gallon of gas in the process and refresh the tank with good quality gas.
Duurango
I know jus how you feel. My 01' Durango V-8 had bad engine damage around the 90K myself. Mine was caused by fuel usage as it was claimed by the mechanic. The sump always got Mobil 1 synthetic since it went off warranty. Don't want to open a can of worms again but having no OLM and went strictly by the manual for maintenance at the dealership and it still went bad.
Anyway my truck is working fine now but it did cost me a few bucks to get it working again.
In your ccase I think your issue was due to short distances traveled and not enough time for the oil to heat up and circulate through out the engine. If you decide to repair it I would in the future about once per month take it out on the freeway for a good drive. This is basically whhat I do when I can for a couple hours. This way too I burn away a few gallon of gas in the process and refresh the tank with good quality gas.
Duurango
If I figured this out - here is a link to my images:
To clarify a few things:
1) The Honda Service Writer offered to take pictures when the valve cover was off but did not. I did the best I could with my pictures inside the oil filler hole.
2) The dealer's Service Writer told me there was a significant amount of sludge in the engine due to "Lack of maintenance". I explained that I did ALL the maintenance as per the Maintenance Minder, and he said, "Then I don't know". He also said they could not finish their valve adjustment because the cam was too worn. He said that it was very likely that the engine had cylinder head damage and on the invoice the Tech wrote, "still has noise after valve adjustment, probably needs a head". The writer also told me I possible have lower end damage, quoted me a new engine, and suggested that if I was in the habit of changing vehicles often then now would be a good time. He concluded by saying they were not going to take any more of my money by attempting a valve adjustment on the second (presumably rear) valve train.
3) The service manager contradicted the Service Writer when I asked for clarification and told me, "The sludge is more like heavy varnish" and, "We did perform a valve adjustment on both valve trains, but we didn't charge you for the second half". OP note: I was quoted about $400 for the valve adjustment and they charged only me $200, which I appreciated.
Meanwhile my Pilot hit 90,000 miles exactly today. (coincidentally as I was driving past a graveyard - yikes!)
To clarify a few things:
1) The Honda Service Writer offered to take pictures when the valve cover was off but did not. I did the best I could with my pictures inside the oil filler hole.
2) The dealer's Service Writer told me there was a significant amount of sludge in the engine due to "Lack of maintenance". I explained that I did ALL the maintenance as per the Maintenance Minder, and he said, "Then I don't know". He also said they could not finish their valve adjustment because the cam was too worn. He said that it was very likely that the engine had cylinder head damage and on the invoice the Tech wrote, "still has noise after valve adjustment, probably needs a head". The writer also told me I possible have lower end damage, quoted me a new engine, and suggested that if I was in the habit of changing vehicles often then now would be a good time. He concluded by saying they were not going to take any more of my money by attempting a valve adjustment on the second (presumably rear) valve train.
3) The service manager contradicted the Service Writer when I asked for clarification and told me, "The sludge is more like heavy varnish" and, "We did perform a valve adjustment on both valve trains, but we didn't charge you for the second half". OP note: I was quoted about $400 for the valve adjustment and they charged only me $200, which I appreciated.
Meanwhile my Pilot hit 90,000 miles exactly today. (coincidentally as I was driving past a graveyard - yikes!)
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
Originally Posted By: Durango
Adam,
I know jus how you feel. My 01' Durango V-8 had bad engine damage around the 90K myself. Mine was caused by fuel usage as it was claimed by the mechanic. The sump always got Mobil 1 synthetic since it went off warranty. Don't want to open a can of worms again but having no OLM and went strictly by the manual for maintenance at the dealership and it still went bad.
Anyway my truck is working fine now but it did cost me a few bucks to get it working again.
In your ccase I think your issue was due to short distances traveled and not enough time for the oil to heat up and circulate through out the engine. If you decide to repair it I would in the future about once per month take it out on the freeway for a good drive. This is basically whhat I do when I can for a couple hours. This way too I burn away a few gallon of gas in the process and refresh the tank with good quality gas.
Duurango
Hi Durango. Thanks very much but please note as stated above most of the 30K mils per year were highway - trips mostly longer then half an hour and usually at 75 MPH.
Adam,
I know jus how you feel. My 01' Durango V-8 had bad engine damage around the 90K myself. Mine was caused by fuel usage as it was claimed by the mechanic. The sump always got Mobil 1 synthetic since it went off warranty. Don't want to open a can of worms again but having no OLM and went strictly by the manual for maintenance at the dealership and it still went bad.
Anyway my truck is working fine now but it did cost me a few bucks to get it working again.
In your ccase I think your issue was due to short distances traveled and not enough time for the oil to heat up and circulate through out the engine. If you decide to repair it I would in the future about once per month take it out on the freeway for a good drive. This is basically whhat I do when I can for a couple hours. This way too I burn away a few gallon of gas in the process and refresh the tank with good quality gas.
Duurango
Hi Durango. Thanks very much but please note as stated above most of the 30K mils per year were highway - trips mostly longer then half an hour and usually at 75 MPH.
Originally Posted By: buster
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
Who thinks a good synthetic like RL 5w20, M1 EP 5w20, Amsoil 5w20, PU 5w20 would have made a difference? (Still assuming it is a poor engine design)
We would not be having this conversation.
+1
And I'll never run conventional oil again after what I learned here.
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
Who thinks a good synthetic like RL 5w20, M1 EP 5w20, Amsoil 5w20, PU 5w20 would have made a difference? (Still assuming it is a poor engine design)
We would not be having this conversation.
+1
And I'll never run conventional oil again after what I learned here.
Look familiar?
When they are this bad Kreen wont help, you must get the screens out and clean the pan, pick up and heads.
The actuating system must be manually cleaned also.
Perform a valve adjustment after its clean then run some Kreen though it to get anything in the galleys.
Followed by a couple of short 1K OCI. I think this engine may clean up nicely.
Expect about a grand with all the gaskets and materials.
When they are this bad Kreen wont help, you must get the screens out and clean the pan, pick up and heads.
The actuating system must be manually cleaned also.
Perform a valve adjustment after its clean then run some Kreen though it to get anything in the galleys.
Followed by a couple of short 1K OCI. I think this engine may clean up nicely.
Expect about a grand with all the gaskets and materials.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
http://www.mobiloil.com/USA-English/MotorOil/Synthetics/Mobil_1_Heat_Protection.aspx
You can see that even a conventional GF-5/SN oil is not always adequate at handling higher temps.
On a 1-10 scale, 10 being the best, Mobil conventional scored a 0. Mobil 1 5w30 a 9.
You can see that even a conventional GF-5/SN oil is not always adequate at handling higher temps.
On a 1-10 scale, 10 being the best, Mobil conventional scored a 0. Mobil 1 5w30 a 9.
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Ok. I asked because some people cant change their own oil due to living conditions, apartments, etc. I zoomed your pics in vs travs comparison pic. Not quite as bad. Not disputing what he said, or anyone said. Having lived your experience with several diff cars, think you should change the oil before any more damage occurs. If you need a mechanic after that, so be it. But I optimistically doubt it. i think your vtec systems plugged, making you tick. A synthetic should quiet that down alot right after the oil change. Because it will flow better, give the vtec system more oil pressure, etc. waiting and doing nothing may hurt it. An oil change right now will not. Just advice, hope it helps. Worked for me more than once.
Head to Walmart, get a jug of Pennzoil Ultra and a filter.
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Ok. I asked because some people cant change their own oil due to living conditions, apartments, etc. I zoomed your pics in vs travs comparison pic. Not quite as bad. Not disputing what he said, or anyone said. Having lived your experience with several diff cars, think you should change the oil before any more damage occurs. If you need a mechanic after that, so be it. But I optimistically doubt it. i think your vtec systems plugged, making you tick. A synthetic should quiet that down alot right after the oil change. Because it will flow better, give the vtec system more oil pressure, etc. waiting and doing nothing may hurt it. An oil change right now will not. Just advice, hope it helps. Worked for me more than once.
Head to Walmart, get a jug of Pennzoil Ultra and a filter.
Also, in my signature you can see what I'm using for oil on 2 sludge bombers with oil consumption problems. 2 other synthetic options that are good for cleaning up but thicker. Not sure you need thicker why I recommended PU. Good luck!
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Ok. I asked because some people cant change their own oil due to living conditions, apartments, etc. I zoomed your pics in vs travs comparison pic. Not quite as bad. Not disputing what he said, or anyone said. Having lived your experience with several diff cars, think you should change the oil before any more damage occurs. If you need a mechanic after that, so be it. But I optimistically doubt it. i think your vtec systems plugged, making you tick. A synthetic should quiet that down alot right after the oil change. Because it will flow better, give the vtec system more oil pressure, etc. waiting and doing nothing may hurt it. An oil change right now will not. Just advice, hope it helps. Worked for me more than once.
Head to Walmart, get a jug of Pennzoil Ultra and a filter.
Thanks LeakySeals. Perhaps you or another member could help clarify something for me about my nasty tick(s)in the top of my engine. My simple understanding is that ticking is caused by excessive wear on the lobe of the cam such that a space develops in the lifter/rocker/cam assembly. A couple of these metal parts separate and when they come back together they tick. So I do not understand how a cleaner engine and better oil will solve my problem - unless for example the rocker is sticking and not dropping quickly enough as the lobe rotates past. One would think that would cause quite the performance problem. I'm not seeing any serious drop off in power although I'm of course not pushing it. The economy might be off slightly though. I'm going to check that tomorrow. So my question is, what are the other conditions or locations of the tick that might be solved at this point without major motor service? I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of the vtec subsystem other then certain cylinders shut down and an little green ECO light cones on. And of course I do plan on changing to synthetic ASAP and running it no farther then 5000 miles once things get cleaned up.
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Ok. I asked because some people cant change their own oil due to living conditions, apartments, etc. I zoomed your pics in vs travs comparison pic. Not quite as bad. Not disputing what he said, or anyone said. Having lived your experience with several diff cars, think you should change the oil before any more damage occurs. If you need a mechanic after that, so be it. But I optimistically doubt it. i think your vtec systems plugged, making you tick. A synthetic should quiet that down alot right after the oil change. Because it will flow better, give the vtec system more oil pressure, etc. waiting and doing nothing may hurt it. An oil change right now will not. Just advice, hope it helps. Worked for me more than once.
Head to Walmart, get a jug of Pennzoil Ultra and a filter.
Thanks LeakySeals. Perhaps you or another member could help clarify something for me about my nasty tick(s)in the top of my engine. My simple understanding is that ticking is caused by excessive wear on the lobe of the cam such that a space develops in the lifter/rocker/cam assembly. A couple of these metal parts separate and when they come back together they tick. So I do not understand how a cleaner engine and better oil will solve my problem - unless for example the rocker is sticking and not dropping quickly enough as the lobe rotates past. One would think that would cause quite the performance problem. I'm not seeing any serious drop off in power although I'm of course not pushing it. The economy might be off slightly though. I'm going to check that tomorrow. So my question is, what are the other conditions or locations of the tick that might be solved at this point without major motor service? I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of the vtec subsystem other then certain cylinders shut down and an little green ECO light cones on. And of course I do plan on changing to synthetic ASAP and running it no farther then 5000 miles once things get cleaned up.
The iVTEC system is very complex it uses primary and secondary rocker arms. This system uses a separate oiling system to activate it.
Something sticking in this system can and will cause ticking, of course it could be a bad cam but when they get varnished up its a fair bet that this is a very real possibility as the source of the noise.
The solenoid and activation unit are on the rear of the head, remove it and replace the screen at least. If this screen is plugged slightly you can change oil till your blue in the face and not get oil to flow to the unit properly.
Something sticking in this system can and will cause ticking, of course it could be a bad cam but when they get varnished up its a fair bet that this is a very real possibility as the source of the noise.
The solenoid and activation unit are on the rear of the head, remove it and replace the screen at least. If this screen is plugged slightly you can change oil till your blue in the face and not get oil to flow to the unit properly.
Originally Posted By: Trav
The iVTEC system is very complex it uses primary and secondary rocker arms. This system uses a separate oiling system to activate it.
Something sticking in this system can and will cause ticking, of course it could be a bad cam but when they get varnished up its a fair bet that this is a very real possibility as the source of the noise.
The solenoid and activation unit are on the rear of the head, remove it and replace the screen at least. If this screen is plugged slightly you can change oil till your blue in the face and not get oil to flow to the unit properly.
Concerning the cam "wearing out" as some are claiming. I just watched a video on youtube I'm reluctant to post because it contains (as do all the vtec videos) profanity in the comments from teenagers. I know that can get you banned so..What i saw was the VTC Cam actuator provides the lubrication for the #1 intake camshaft journal. Perhaps that is closer to what they mean
The iVTEC system is very complex it uses primary and secondary rocker arms. This system uses a separate oiling system to activate it.
Something sticking in this system can and will cause ticking, of course it could be a bad cam but when they get varnished up its a fair bet that this is a very real possibility as the source of the noise.
The solenoid and activation unit are on the rear of the head, remove it and replace the screen at least. If this screen is plugged slightly you can change oil till your blue in the face and not get oil to flow to the unit properly.
Concerning the cam "wearing out" as some are claiming. I just watched a video on youtube I'm reluctant to post because it contains (as do all the vtec videos) profanity in the comments from teenagers. I know that can get you banned so..What i saw was the VTC Cam actuator provides the lubrication for the #1 intake camshaft journal. Perhaps that is closer to what they mean
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Ok. I asked because some people cant change their own oil due to living conditions, apartments, etc. I zoomed your pics in vs travs comparison pic. Not quite as bad. Not disputing what he said, or anyone said. Having lived your experience with several diff cars, think you should change the oil before any more damage occurs. If you need a mechanic after that, so be it. But I optimistically doubt it. i think your vtec systems plugged, making you tick. A synthetic should quiet that down alot right after the oil change. Because it will flow better, give the vtec system more oil pressure, etc. waiting and doing nothing may hurt it. An oil change right now will not. Just advice, hope it helps. Worked for me more than once.
Head to Walmart, get a jug of Pennzoil Ultra and a filter.
Thanks LeakySeals. Perhaps you or another member could help clarify something for me about my nasty tick(s)in the top of my engine. My simple understanding is that ticking is caused by excessive wear on the lobe of the cam such that a space develops in the lifter/rocker/cam assembly. A couple of these metal parts separate and when they come back together they tick. So I do not understand how a cleaner engine and better oil will solve my problem - unless for example the rocker is sticking and not dropping quickly enough as the lobe rotates past. One would think that would cause quite the performance problem. I'm not seeing any serious drop off in power although I'm of course not pushing it. The economy might be off slightly though. I'm going to check that tomorrow. So my question is, what are the other conditions or locations of the tick that might be solved at this point without major motor service? I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of the vtec subsystem other then certain cylinders shut down and an little green ECO light cones on. And of course I do plan on changing to synthetic ASAP and running it no farther then 5000 miles once things get cleaned up.
As Trav says its complicated. I can't post the videos because of profanity so i will do it like this
1) youtube search for "K-Series iVTEC VTC Cam Phasing System - In Depth" This explains why oil flow is critical. The i-vtec system has its own separate oil supply via tiny oil channels. Tiny enough that it gets its own screen (filter).
2) youtube search for "K20A2 iVTEC Cam Rocker System". Shows the animation of the rocker arms. As your watching think of tick...tick...tick...tick as the rockers go up and down
To put this together.. if #1 is not getting enough oil pressure because its clogged, the locked, advance and retard position of #2 will = ticking because its not in proper position. The proper position is obtained by hydraulics created by oil pressure. Hope this made sense
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Originally Posted By: Adam_in_NH
Originally Posted By: LeakySeals
Looks like varnish. I still think a cleanup with a couple of synthetic runs, maybe some kreen and you'll be fine. May as well do that while your figuring the rest out. Can you change your own oil?
ROTF-*****, Yes! Of course I can change my own oil! But you should hear this thing - it ticks worse then my grandmother's old sewing machine, and at the very least it likely needs a pair of cams. I am hesitant to touch the engine until the Honda America rep listens to it and reads this excellent forum. Then unless he comes through with a equitable solution I plan on getting a second opinion from an automotive expert with credentials to be an expert witness in small claims court if it comes to that. If I end up with any of the original motor intact by the time this plays out my inclination is to give it a couple of flushes and low interval oil changes with synthetic oil and change it every every 5000 miles thereafter.
Ok. I asked because some people cant change their own oil due to living conditions, apartments, etc. I zoomed your pics in vs travs comparison pic. Not quite as bad. Not disputing what he said, or anyone said. Having lived your experience with several diff cars, think you should change the oil before any more damage occurs. If you need a mechanic after that, so be it. But I optimistically doubt it. i think your vtec systems plugged, making you tick. A synthetic should quiet that down alot right after the oil change. Because it will flow better, give the vtec system more oil pressure, etc. waiting and doing nothing may hurt it. An oil change right now will not. Just advice, hope it helps. Worked for me more than once.
Head to Walmart, get a jug of Pennzoil Ultra and a filter.
Thanks LeakySeals. Perhaps you or another member could help clarify something for me about my nasty tick(s)in the top of my engine. My simple understanding is that ticking is caused by excessive wear on the lobe of the cam such that a space develops in the lifter/rocker/cam assembly. A couple of these metal parts separate and when they come back together they tick. So I do not understand how a cleaner engine and better oil will solve my problem - unless for example the rocker is sticking and not dropping quickly enough as the lobe rotates past. One would think that would cause quite the performance problem. I'm not seeing any serious drop off in power although I'm of course not pushing it. The economy might be off slightly though. I'm going to check that tomorrow. So my question is, what are the other conditions or locations of the tick that might be solved at this point without major motor service? I am unfamiliar with the mechanics of the vtec subsystem other then certain cylinders shut down and an little green ECO light cones on. And of course I do plan on changing to synthetic ASAP and running it no farther then 5000 miles once things get cleaned up.
As Trav says its complicated. I can't post the videos because of profanity so i will do it like this
1) youtube search for "K-Series iVTEC VTC Cam Phasing System - In Depth" This explains why oil flow is critical. The i-vtec system has its own separate oil supply via tiny oil channels. Tiny enough that it gets its own screen (filter).
2) youtube search for "K20A2 iVTEC Cam Rocker System". Shows the animation of the rocker arms. As your watching think of tick...tick...tick...tick as the rockers go up and down
To put this together.. if #1 is not getting enough oil pressure because its clogged, the locked, advance and retard position of #2 will = ticking because its not in proper position. The proper position is obtained by hydraulics created by oil pressure. Hope this made sense
I have to look at an oiling diagram to be sure but IIRC all the journals are fed by the main galley.
I have the FSM that has all the details of the system.
I wish i could post the diagram of how its working, you would see how it could possibly stick and give a false lash reading.
The OP did say since they did the adjustment its worse, thats a good sign that something is afoul.
There is a way to test the system with air pressure and IIRC also use it to check the adjustment, again i need the book for the procedure.
Look at the pic of the oil filter pad, IIRC its the lower left port that feeds the ivtec system, it has a little mesh filter also.
Its about a 20 mi job to change as is the one behind the head.
Making sure these are clean will give a better shot at getting the correct flow up to the unit and a better chance of cleaning it.
Edit: I just saw your post. Yep thats about the size of leaky.
I have the FSM that has all the details of the system.
I wish i could post the diagram of how its working, you would see how it could possibly stick and give a false lash reading.
The OP did say since they did the adjustment its worse, thats a good sign that something is afoul.
There is a way to test the system with air pressure and IIRC also use it to check the adjustment, again i need the book for the procedure.
Look at the pic of the oil filter pad, IIRC its the lower left port that feeds the ivtec system, it has a little mesh filter also.
Its about a 20 mi job to change as is the one behind the head.
Making sure these are clean will give a better shot at getting the correct flow up to the unit and a better chance of cleaning it.
Edit: I just saw your post. Yep thats about the size of leaky.
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Forgot to mention - another reason why I'm fairly convinced getting a synthetic cleaner oil in fast will help alot.
When I bought the corolla in my signature it was barely running, ticking bad. All sludged up. Had a CEL P1349. On a Toyota that means "VVT System Malfunction". (VVT is Toyotas version of Vtec-like cam actuation). Service manual says inspect, clean or replace oil control valve filter".
I threw in Mobil 1 High Mileage oil while I was waiting for the replacement screen on order. The light was out after a couple of days and never returned. Still have the screen sitting on my desk. Never put it in. Will it work here? Maybe, maybe not. If the oils not in, you will never find out. It worked for me so there's hope for you.
When I bought the corolla in my signature it was barely running, ticking bad. All sludged up. Had a CEL P1349. On a Toyota that means "VVT System Malfunction". (VVT is Toyotas version of Vtec-like cam actuation). Service manual says inspect, clean or replace oil control valve filter".
I threw in Mobil 1 High Mileage oil while I was waiting for the replacement screen on order. The light was out after a couple of days and never returned. Still have the screen sitting on my desk. Never put it in. Will it work here? Maybe, maybe not. If the oils not in, you will never find out. It worked for me so there's hope for you.
Originally Posted By: Trav
The iVTEC system is very complex it uses primary and secondary rocker arms. This system uses a separate oiling system to activate it.
Something sticking in this system can and will cause ticking, of course it could be a bad cam but when they get varnished up its a fair bet that this is a very real possibility as the source of the noise.
The solenoid and activation unit are on the rear of the head, remove it and replace the screen at least. If this screen is plugged slightly you can change oil till your blue in the face and not get oil to flow to the unit properly.
Trav what are the odds of changing that screen and it quiets the tick? Reason I ask is I'd hate to do a bang up cleanup job like you did put everything together and still have the tick and need a cam. Is there anyway of avoiding a situation like this, perhaps changing the screen fire it up, if the tick is better then do the super clean up job? Or pull it apart clean it and replace the cam and anything else it needs. They also told the OP he needed a cam....
Honda IMO really blew it on this one. JMO
The iVTEC system is very complex it uses primary and secondary rocker arms. This system uses a separate oiling system to activate it.
Something sticking in this system can and will cause ticking, of course it could be a bad cam but when they get varnished up its a fair bet that this is a very real possibility as the source of the noise.
The solenoid and activation unit are on the rear of the head, remove it and replace the screen at least. If this screen is plugged slightly you can change oil till your blue in the face and not get oil to flow to the unit properly.
Trav what are the odds of changing that screen and it quiets the tick? Reason I ask is I'd hate to do a bang up cleanup job like you did put everything together and still have the tick and need a cam. Is there anyway of avoiding a situation like this, perhaps changing the screen fire it up, if the tick is better then do the super clean up job? Or pull it apart clean it and replace the cam and anything else it needs. They also told the OP he needed a cam....
Honda IMO really blew it on this one. JMO
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