What is my Honda Pilot engine's REAL problem?

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Originally Posted By: garlicbreadman
i think the weight of the oil is more to blame. i believe these v6 should use 5w-30 at the very least. OP did mention the noise went away for a week using a high mileage(thicker) oil..5w20?

0w-20 and 5w-20 is only for epa ratings! and slightly better protection in REALLY cold weather


Really? I personally think it is a secret conspiracy of a cabal if intelligent bears coming out of the woods and peeing into peoples' oil sumps. I have as much evidence to support my theory as you do yours...

smile.gif


9817f92c-1feb-4a1b-b7db-59d510981de4.jpg
 
Originally Posted By: Hokiefyd
OP, please post a picture of the sludge as soon as you can. This thread is going on 18 pages now, and we still have nothing to look at!!


I just took some pics but need to get a new card reader in order to post them. Will do that later today.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Pablo

Please focus on the fact that your OLM went significantly longer than the mean for other users of the same engine.


So is this going to be ignored?

Hello????


Yes, why let facts get into the way of a good (possibly trolling) thread...

Incidentally, another fact not mentioned in this thread is that Mobil has another conventional oil offering not listed on their site that comes in a blue bottle and can be seen at various Target stores that is a step below Mobil 5000 oil. The OP should find out exactly what his dealership is using...
 
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: WMSmotorhead
Originally Posted By: dave1251


Incorrect answer.


Cut and pasted directly from Mobil's Website... in the description of Super.

•Unique formulation proven to help extend engine life
•Proven protection against sludge and engine wear
•5,000 miles of protection, guaranteed*

I didn't make that up.


I do know if you made it up or not, but you gave incorrect information. Because it meets Ford WSS-M2C945-A in 5W20 variety means that is it good up to 10K.


That's not 100% true. Mobil is saying they are only guaranteeing it to 5000 mi, can it go further, probably but that's outside of mobils guarantee UNLESS it's OEM oci. Just because it meets MC 945 does NOT mean it can safely go 10k. Your extrapolating a little bit. The Main criteria for fords 945 and 946 is SN and GF5. Under severe conditions most ford rated conventional oils are good for 5k but that is where ford recommends the oci for severe. Even though the new ford OM has a 5k, 7.5k, or 10k oci option depending on the type of service most use 5k oci because of severe service most cars in cities get used for but that's not always accurate and has some marketing involved.

Even mobil special( not super) is 945 and 946 rated. Yes you probably can go 10k on Dino under the right conditions but that is pushing it with out uoa. Even though it is ford approved, it doesn't make it the most appropriate oil for the job. For instance on the ecoboosts you can go under the normal service for a 10k oci, have you seen those uoa at 5k?! No way you could comfortably run a 946 rated conventional out to 10k.


Nope you are having problems reading Mobil's guarantee also?

"What The Period Of Coverage Is

The Mobil Super and Mobil Super High Mileage limited warranties are valid for 5,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

The Mobil Super Synthetic limited warranty is valid for 7,500 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

Additional requirements for all Mobil Super products include: 1) Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and 2) an oil change must be completed every six (6) months."
 
Originally Posted By: Nickdfresh
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: Pablo

Please focus on the fact that your OLM went significantly longer than the mean for other users of the same engine.


So is this going to be ignored?

Hello????


Yes, why let facts get into the way of a good (possibly trolling) thread...

Incidentally, another fact not mentioned in this thread is that Mobil has another conventional oil offering not listed on their site that comes in a blue bottle and can be seen at various Target stores that is a step below Mobil 5000 oil. The OP should find out exactly what his dealership is using...


This is Mobil Special's guarantee(aka Blue Bottle)

"What The Period Of Coverage Is
This Limited Warranty is valid for 4,000 miles or the length of the OEM recommended oil change interval for your vehicle, whichever is longer.

Additional requirements include: 1) Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and 2) an oil change must be completed every six (6) months."

There will be more information posted on this later.
 
Originally Posted By: dave1251
Originally Posted By: volk06
Originally Posted By: dave1251
WMSmotorhead said:
dave1251 said:
Incorrect answer

I do know if you made it up or not, but you gave incorrect information. Because it meets Ford WSS-M2C945-A in 5W20 variety means that is it good up to 10K.


That's not 100% true. Mobil is saying they are only guaranteeing it to 5000 mi, can it go further, probably but that's outside of mobils guarantee UNLESS it's OEM oci. Just because it meets MC 945 does NOT mean it can safely go 10k. Your extrapolating a little bit. The Main criteria for fords 945 and 946 is SN and GF5. Under severe conditions most ford rated conventional oils are good for 5k but that is where ford recommends the oci for severe. Even though the new ford OM has a 5k, 7.5k, or 10k oci option depending on the type of service most use 5k oci because of severe service most cars in cities get used for but that's not always accurate and has some marketing involved.

Even mobil special( not super) is 945 and 946 rated. Yes you probably can go 10k on Dino under the right conditions but that is pushing it with out uoa. Even though it is ford approved, it doesn't make it the most appropriate oil for the job. For instance on the ecoboosts you can go under the normal service for a 10k oci, have you seen those uoa at 5k?! No way you could comfortably run a 946 rated conventional out to 10k.


Nope you are having problems reading Mobil's guarantee also?

"What The Period Of Coverage Is

The Mobil Super and Mobil Super High Mileage limited warranties are valid for 5,000 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

The Mobil Super Synthetic limited warranty is valid for 7,500 miles or your vehicle’s OEM recommended oil change interval, whichever is longer.

Additional requirements for all Mobil Super products include: 1) Oils must be put in service not later than five (5) years from the date of purchase; and 2) an oil change must be completed every six (6) months."


Are you having a problem reading what I wrote? I stated unless its an OEM OCI .
Click to expand...
Click to expand...
 
Last edited:
Quote:
i think the weight of the oil is more to blame. i believe these v6 should use 5w-30 at the very least. OP did mention the noise went away for a week using a high mileage(thicker) oil..5w20?

0w-20 and 5w-20 is only for epa ratings! and slightly better protection in REALLY cold weather




I think this maybe partially true.
The thin oil brigade will tell you 0w20 doesn't shear out of grade but as soon as heat comes into the equation manufacturers specs change.
Like the Ford ecoboost with turbocharging and other turbo engines the OEM's recommends 5w30 or even higher viscosity.
Why?

Heat is an issue with engine on the front bank, i also believe the 0w20 oil is partially to blame along with bad design.
Not the brand of oil but the grade.
I honestly believe its just too thin for this application, running heavier weight oils and seeing the results in the real world seem to confirm this.
 
Around 12 or 13 we are now dealing with another Mobil explanation thread!!!OMG Lets see those pictures asap and finally bring this to a merciful end!!
 
Originally Posted By: Trav


I think this maybe partially true.
The thin oil brigade will tell you 0w20 doesn't shear out of grade but as soon as heat comes into the equation manufacturers specs change.
Like the Ford ecoboost with turbocharging and other turbo engines the OEM's recommends 5w30 or even higher viscosity.
Why?

Heat is an issue with engine on the front bank, i also believe the 0w20 oil is partially to blame along with bad design.
Not the brand of oil but the grade.
I honestly believe its just too thin for this application, running heavier weight oils and seeing the results in the real world seem to confirm this.


Initially I didn't think the thin oil would be a problem. But you certainly have food for thought, thin oil and a poorly designed engine might just be the formula for problems like this.

Ford Ecoboost and Chrysler Pentastar engines both call for 5W30 oil. I can see the Ecoboost calling for it, but the Pentastar has me scratching my head as to why they are calling for a 30 grade oil. CAFE didn't have a say? I doubt it. Or did the automaker win this time? Makes me wonder, and I thought I was part of the thin crowd. lol See what reading and spending time here can do........JMO
 
Who thinks a good synthetic like RL 5w20, M1 EP 5w20, Amsoil 5w20, PU 5w20 would have made a difference? (Still assuming it is a poor engine design)
35.gif
 
Originally Posted By: Trav
Quote:
i think the weight of the oil is more to blame. i believe these v6 should use 5w-30 at the very least. OP did mention the noise went away for a week using a high mileage(thicker) oil..5w20?

0w-20 and 5w-20 is only for epa ratings! and slightly better protection in REALLY cold weather




I think this maybe partially true.
The thin oil brigade will tell you 0w20 doesn't shear out of grade but as soon as heat comes into the equation manufacturers specs change.
Like the Ford ecoboost with turbocharging and other turbo engines the OEM's recommends 5w30 or even higher viscosity.
Why?

Heat is an issue with engine on the front bank, i also believe the 0w20 oil is partially to blame along with bad design.
Not the brand of oil but the grade.
I honestly believe its just too thin for this application, running heavier weight oils and seeing the results in the real world seem to confirm this.


Yeah heat is a factor. You heat a oil enough a 60 grade oil will become a 10 grade. The difference between your comparisons is this. A turbocharger produces higher oil temperatures, so adding a turbocharger was by design and higher oil temperatures were factored in. Does a 3.5 V6 from Honda produces hot spots or higher oil temperatures? Was this engine designed to do that?
 
Quote:
Does a 3.5 V6 from Honda produces hot spots or higher oil temperatures?

In the iVTEC it does! Absolutely 100% and i can prove it and have done so right on this board.
This design has been a sore spot for Honda for years.
 
Originally Posted By: buster
Who thinks a good synthetic like RL 5w20, M1 EP 5w20, Amsoil 5w20, PU 5w20 would have made a difference? (Still assuming it is a poor engine design)
35.gif



We would not be having this conversation.
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
Who thinks a good synthetic like RL 5w20, M1 EP 5w20, Amsoil 5w20, PU 5w20 would have made a difference? (Still assuming it is a poor engine design)
35.gif



We would not be having this conversation.


+1
 
Originally Posted By: Pablo
Originally Posted By: buster
Who thinks a good synthetic like RL 5w20, M1 EP 5w20, Amsoil 5w20, PU 5w20 would have made a difference? (Still assuming it is a poor engine design)
35.gif



We would not be having this conversation.


But if the cams have a manufacturing defect they would still fail. Better oil may have prolonged the life of the cams, but wouldn't save them completely.
 
Originally Posted By: AVB


But if the cams have a manufacturing defect they would still fail. Better oil may have prolonged the life of the cams, but wouldn't save them completely.


The cams don't have a manufacturing defect. Why would you think that? The cams probably suffered from lack of oil supply due to sludge.
 
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