What additives are best for timing chain life?

[Kamele0N]

We can all learn from BMW and his N47 (2.0 CRD) chain problem...

https://babybmw.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=3&t=39358

Its mix of everything... Mostly due to poor construction of chain...(too) long OCIs...lack of lubrication (again design flaw)...

 

[Brigadier]

I am adding Hy-per Lube ZRA to my oil to help protect the timing chains.

 

[PimTac]

Originally Posted by ChemLabNL
Um, Molybdenum





You are new here so you may not know this. Moly comes in different forms so one oil with 70ppm is just as good as one with 700ppm. In addition oils may have organic friction modifiers that don't show up in a analysis .

 

[4WD]

The last 10w30 spec'd I ever had … started to smoke at startup so sending him some 15w40 Delvac to see if thicker will help with that …

 

[ChemLabNL]

Originally Posted by PimTac
Originally Posted by ChemLabNL
Um, Molybdenum





You are new here so you may not know this. Moly comes in different forms so one oil with 70ppm is just as good as one with 700ppm. In addition oils may have organic friction modifiers that don't show up in a analysis .




And also those two pesky variables of Magic and Divine Intervention that 540Rat seams to have a handle on.

 

[ChemLabNL]

Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by ChemLabNL
Um, Molybdenum

and .... Boron.
Titanium in the case of Castrol Edge.


BN + Moly = Yum

 

[zeng]

Originally Posted by ChemLabNL
Originally Posted by zeng
Originally Posted by ChemLabNL
Um, Molybdenum

and .... Boron.
Titanium in the case of Castrol Edge.


BN + Moly = Yum

 

[nthach]

Clean, OEM-speced oil changed at a reasonable interval will benefit your timing chain more than an additive will. Oil can't override engineering flaws - like the Audi 4.2L V8/Ford SOHC Cologne V6/Mercedes M116-M117 V8s.

Toyota and Subaru have been somewhat flexible on oil grade, but from reading a post where Ford mod motors should be using 5W-20 or the long-term timing chain longevity might suffer from the tensioners not pumping up quickly.

 

[pbm]

I notice that Valvoline got away from using sodium in their oils as they went to d1G2.....I have a few cases of Valvoline sourced Napa syn. SN 0w20 from the previous high sodium era......do these oils work well in NA 4 bangers with timing chains like in my Focus and Escape?

 

[neo3]

Originally Posted by dbias
Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
There was a good study published on this exact topic sometime last year. Moly was found to have a fairly significant (positive) impact. High amounts of ZDDP appeared to make things worse.

Found it: https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...0Role%20Additive%20Chemistry%20Plays.pdf


Looks like ZDDP is ineffective, phosphorus hurts, boron helps a little and molybdenum is by far the best. Interesting they keep stating that a wear film doesnt help and that chemical reactions seem to be the culprit


You're only part right - they found moly is protective, zinc worsens wear, and phosphorus basically neutral:

"Test data showed zinc plays major role in
promoting wear
-
Phosphorus and sulfur minimal influence"

Nice to have actual test data on this.

 

[Yah-Tah-Hey]

Antiwear additives. There are many,many moving parts in the chain and wear adds up fast in a chain.

 

[TiredTrucker]

I have a 2006 Cadillac CTS with the 3.6L engine which is known to have timing chain issues. It is a timing chain nightmare. GM calls for Mobil 1 5w30 in this. All I have used is Pennzoil (PYB) conventional 10w30. The PYB has a boatload of moly and boron in it. I have not had any issue with the motor and will be keeping the car for some time to come. One of the best cars I have owned.

I concur, don't put in any additional additives. Just buy an oil that already has them as part of the mix.

 

[DoubleWasp]

Given that study indicates chains suffer from high zinc and phos, it would seem a diesel engine is about the worst place to put a timing chain.

Is this why the Euros are always using passenger car style oils in their diesel engines instead of an HDEO?

 

[Kamele0N]

Nope... We are using diesel PCMOs because of the after treatment systems (DPFs)...

After 2008 +/- every onroad diesel engine here must have DPF...euro4 onwards...

 

[DoubleWasp]

Are car DPFs ao much different from truck DPFs that they DPF compatible HDEO can't work?

 

[Kamele0N]

Look at ACEA sheets... https://www.lubrizol.com/Lubricant-and-Fuel-Additives/Engine-Oil-Additives/ACEA

C3 C2 sulphated ash is C4 C1 sulphated ash is E6/E9 sulphated ash is
Well you could probably go away with that....if you dont have an

 

[ChemLabNL]

Originally Posted by TiredTrucker
I have a 2006 Cadillac CTS with the 3.6L engine which is known to have timing chain issues. It is a timing chain nightmare. GM calls for Mobil 1 5w30 in this. All I have used is Pennzoil (PYB) conventional 10w30. The PYB has a boatload of moly and boron in it. I have not had any issue with the motor and will be keeping the car for some time to come. One of the best cars I have owned.

I concur, don't put in any additional additives. Just buy an oil that already has them as part of the mix.


That oil is what I would use if not a Dexos2.
Surprised nobody uses ACDelco Dexos1 or Dexos2. No VOAs either.