Moly? Boron? ZDDP?
What additives are best for timing chain life?
- Thread starter Chris142
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^^^^^^
Something tells me you are potentially on the right track here Linctex...
Interesting how almost all the big name oils now have molybdenum in them now going into SN+... Varying amounts of course... But typically 50-150 ppm of molybdenum seen. And like you rightly said.... Needs to stay in suspension.
Something tells me you are potentially on the right track here Linctex...
Interesting how almost all the big name oils now have molybdenum in them now going into SN+... Varying amounts of course... But typically 50-150 ppm of molybdenum seen. And like you rightly said.... Needs to stay in suspension.
Run a 30 weight instead of a 20 weight.
Or change it often, at 5K miles or so, instead of 10K mile changes.
Or change it often, at 5K miles or so, instead of 10K mile changes.
There was a good study published on this exact topic sometime last year. Moly was found to have a fairly significant (positive) impact. High amounts of ZDDP appeared to make things worse.
Found it: https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...0Role%20Additive%20Chemistry%20Plays.pdf
Found it: https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...0Role%20Additive%20Chemistry%20Plays.pdf
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Originally Posted by 1JZ_E46
There was a good study published on this exact topic sometime last year. Moly was found to have a fairly significant (positive) impact. High amounts of ZDDP appeared to make things worse.
Found it: https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...0Role%20Additive%20Chemistry%20Plays.pdf
Looks like ZDDP is ineffective, phosphorus hurts, boron helps a little and molybdenum is by far the best. Interesting they keep stating that a wear film doesnt help and that chemical reactions seem to be the culprit
There was a good study published on this exact topic sometime last year. Moly was found to have a fairly significant (positive) impact. High amounts of ZDDP appeared to make things worse.
Found it: https://www.stle.org/images/pdf/STL...0Role%20Additive%20Chemistry%20Plays.pdf
Looks like ZDDP is ineffective, phosphorus hurts, boron helps a little and molybdenum is by far the best. Interesting they keep stating that a wear film doesnt help and that chemical reactions seem to be the culprit
The above linked study was rather interesting. However, I suspect the test was run using rather low viscosity oil. My speculation is that additives become the lubricant when oil viscosity is too low to prevent rapid wear.
For over 100 years, industry has been using chains for power transmission, often in seriously heavy duty applications. So chain life was a major factor in operational costs, machine accuracy, down time and so on. Industry studied the problem and found the longest possible chain life required just two things. 1) 30 viscosity oil. 2) extremely clean oil.
Despite what many here say, oil changes are the way to remove micro particulates from your engine oil. Unless one is performing particulate counts and knows the percentage of soot in the oil, extending OCI's beyond the severe service interval is risky.
We've known about chain wear forever. This is nothing new and surprising. Timing chains have been failing for as long as they've been used. With wildly differing results on the very same engine models. The reason for early failures remains the same as it's ever been.
My suggestion: Choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently. The Ford Ecoboost chains that are failing take 25 man hours to change and the parts cost is near a $1000. That's nearly $4000 to replace chains, often before 100,000 miles. The oil change is cheap insurance.
For over 100 years, industry has been using chains for power transmission, often in seriously heavy duty applications. So chain life was a major factor in operational costs, machine accuracy, down time and so on. Industry studied the problem and found the longest possible chain life required just two things. 1) 30 viscosity oil. 2) extremely clean oil.
Despite what many here say, oil changes are the way to remove micro particulates from your engine oil. Unless one is performing particulate counts and knows the percentage of soot in the oil, extending OCI's beyond the severe service interval is risky.
We've known about chain wear forever. This is nothing new and surprising. Timing chains have been failing for as long as they've been used. With wildly differing results on the very same engine models. The reason for early failures remains the same as it's ever been.
My suggestion: Choose a quality synthetic oil of sufficient viscosity, change it frequently. The Ford Ecoboost chains that are failing take 25 man hours to change and the parts cost is near a $1000. That's nearly $4000 to replace chains, often before 100,000 miles. The oil change is cheap insurance.
Can someone translate these abbervations for easier understanding...
Mo E/A
MoDTC (ok I know that one)
MoDDP
Tnx
Mo E/A
MoDTC (ok I know that one)
MoDDP
Tnx
What would be the best moly additive?
And it's definitely not "long" chain vehicles that suffer from timing chain issues. Even cam-in-block engines suffer from it.
And it's definitely not "long" chain vehicles that suffer from timing chain issues. Even cam-in-block engines suffer from it.
Excess levels of additives can reduce timing chain life so don't add anything to your oil.
If the oil part of the motor oil is doing its job, none of these additive will be necessary. So the first priority would be on picking an adequate oil for the job. I vote for -a higher quality 30 or 40 grade oil depending on your equipment. Sonoma is warm enough year round for 0/5w-30/40
Originally Posted by Chris142
Moly? Boron? ZDDP?
Working tensioners. Replace when worn.
Moly? Boron? ZDDP?
Working tensioners. Replace when worn.
Moly+PTFE
Originally Posted by Cujet
For over 100 years, industry has been using chains for power transmission, often in seriously heavy duty applications. So chain life was a major factor in operational costs, machine accuracy, down time and so on. Industry studied the problem and found the longest possible chain life required just two things. 1) 30 viscosity oil. 2) extremely clean oil.
Is the W30 the optimal viscosity or is it just the minimum for desired protection? For example, would W40 viscosity protect better than W30?
For over 100 years, industry has been using chains for power transmission, often in seriously heavy duty applications. So chain life was a major factor in operational costs, machine accuracy, down time and so on. Industry studied the problem and found the longest possible chain life required just two things. 1) 30 viscosity oil. 2) extremely clean oil.
Is the W30 the optimal viscosity or is it just the minimum for desired protection? For example, would W40 viscosity protect better than W30?
It isn't about additives as much as viscosity. The trend to run these water thin oils for CAFE and economy is the largest culprit. Anything with a timing chain should run a minimum 30WT oil- problem solved.
As mentioned in other posts, timing chains have been around forever, the only thing that has changed has been the move towards these ultra thin oils, Common sense always prevails.
As mentioned in other posts, timing chains have been around forever, the only thing that has changed has been the move towards these ultra thin oils, Common sense always prevails.
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