VVT and thicker oil

[SubieRubyRoo]

13 Edge 3.5

Give me a minute… pretty sure yours would take the same as my F150 3.5. I’ll try to dig up the right page for you…

 

[Scott S]

12mmx1.75 I believe

 

[I<3oil]

6.0 doesn’t have that feature. Consider yourself lucky.

L96 and LC8 6.0s do have VVT

Additional features

Electronic throttle control

E85 Flex Fuel

Extended life accessory drive belt

Extended life coolant

Extended life spark plugs

Oil Life Monitor System

Variable valve timing (VVT)

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Give me a minute… pretty sure yours would take the same as my F150 3.5. I’ll try to dig up the right page for you…

On Amazon. M14x1.5x12: $47 for Stahlbus

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

12mmx1.75 I believe

Ok I’d double check- AZ website shows the M14 size. Amazon carries them all though.

 

[Son_of_shots]

I recently read an article vehicles with Variable Valve Timing, it is important to stay with the specified oil grade, or it can throw a code, cause the vehicle to run rough because the timing is slightly off, oil is not getting to where it needs to..
Neither here nor there, there is a lot of people on here, that run different grades of oil, with VVT, so obviously this can't be true, and I even read where oil geek, ran 0w16 with 0w8 was specified. In his daughter's Toyota.. so is this only certain vehicles??
Thank you

The Absolute Rule is that you Never run a different oil viscosity than the Manufacturer's Spec. If they update their spec, that's obviously OK. The only exception would be an engine that is a heavy oil user due to valve seals, ring/cylinder wear, etc.

 

[kschachn]

The Absolute Rule is that you Never run a different oil viscosity than the Manufacturer's Spec. If they update their spec, that's obviously OK. The only exception would be an engine that is a heavy oil user due to valve seals, ring/cylinder wear, etc.

What? So it’s not an Absolute Rule then.

If you have a heavy oil user due to valve seals or ring/cylinder wear then the VVT system will be okay?

 

[RevvCats]

With 5W-20 and the engine warmed up my mustangs oil pressure is down around 15-20 psi at idle and upwards of 80 psi when I put my foot on the floor. Any car is going to see a range of pressures like that under regular use so VVT systems have to be pretty unbothered by input pressure.

I’ve had zero issues bumping up to a 50 weight oil for track use, and driving to and from the track.

 

[Astro14]

When we have smaller spaces, we need thinner oil to fit through those smaller spaces. Suppose you put a thicker oil in a modern engine. One of the things that’s going to do is increase oil pressure. Variable valve timing works off oil pressure so you might wind up with a check engine light and a code for the variable valve timing, which could lead to some expensive repairs. (Motor week )


Repair Care of Maryland.
Variable Valve Timing Codes? It Could Be the Oil!
If all other components of a variable valve timing (V V T) system seem to be functioning
properly and the OBD codes will not go away, check to see if the oil has been changed
recently and if the proper grade of oil was used. Different grades of oil might look the
same, in the bottle, but do not act the same in the engine.
Vehicle oil must meet two criteria: It should be the proper Society of Automotive
Engineers (SAE) grade and viscosity and it should meet the American Petroleum
Institute (API) service classification for the vehicle. Both the SAE and API designations
can be found on the vehicle's oil fill cap or in the owner's manual.
The viscosity and grade of motor oil is what interests us here. Viscosity refers to how
easily oil flows. Two primary factors affect oil's viscosity: temperature and age. When
oil is hot, it flows quickly. Oil flows slower as it cools. As oil ages, the polymer additives
break down and the oil loses viscosity. The ability to flow smoothly in an engine is
important because most of the passages are tiny.
Most vehicles require multi-grade motor oil. This means the oil has characteristics of
both cold weather oil and warm weather oil. As an example, consider a vehicle that
requires a 5W30 grade of motor oil. This means that the oil has the flow properties of
a 5-weight oil when cold and a flow property of a 30-weight oil when warm. The "W"
means that the oil has been tested for cold weather use.
With more vehicle manufacturers employing variable valve timing systems on vehicles
to meet emissions and horsepower needs, how well oil flows through an engine
becomes very important. Many manufacturers use oil pressure or flow as the power
source to adjust the timing. If the wrong grade of oil is used or if the oil is old, the
flow properties could be insufficient. If this happens, the timing system will not work properly and the OBD system may set codes.

Mmm,Kay…

So, what happens when the oil is cold, again?

Because it is substantially thicker during warm up.

And if it’s cold outside, it may be thicker, as well.

And those “smaller spaces” in a solenoid? They’re a whole lot bigger than bearing clearance.

Really, the last sentence is intrinsically self-contradictory. The oil thins out, from being old, and “the flow properties could be insufficient”? But it just said it was insufficient from being too thick, and the passages are so small, that now, that thinner oil doesn't get in there?

So much of this article just leaves me unconvinced.

Finally, I have 60,000 miles of experience with running a “wrong oil” in my VVT engine. 5W30 instead of 0W20, as listed. Not really the problem it is being made out to be…

 

[SC Maintenance]

Every vVT system I have ever seen uses a cam sensor to close the loop. Meaning if your VVT isn’t where the ECU wants it - it opens the valve more or less.

If the oil gets dirty the actuator can get sticky and if the oil pressure is too low it may not have enough pressure to move the cam. Other than those two don’t see how the oil matters. It’s essentially a hydraulic fluid for the system.

I can’t possibly see how viscosity can change this unless your system is broken anyway?

 

[SR5]

The Absolute Rule is that you Never run a different oil viscosity than the Manufacturer's Spec.

Then according to the Toyota owners manual in post #20 I should only use 0W16 or 0W20 or 5W20 or 5W30 or 10W30 or 15W40.

But not 0W30 or 0W40 or 5W40 or 10W40.

Because some how both 0W16 and 15W40 are both good for my car, but 0W30 or 5W40 is bad for my car.

Got it!

 

[DirectRejection]

I recently read an article vehicles with Variable Valve Timing, it is important to stay with the specified oil grade, or it can throw a code, cause the vehicle to run rough because the timing is slightly off, oil is not getting to where it needs to..
Neither here nor there, there is a lot of people on here, that run different grades of oil, with VVT, so obviously this can't be true, and I even read where oil geek, ran 0w16 with 0w8 was specified. In his daughter's Toyota.. so is this only certain vehicles??
Thank you

I am looking for anecdotes of thin oil throwing codes, ostensibly from lack of oil pressure.

 

[userfriendly]

Then according to the Toyota owners manual in post #20 I should only use 0W16 or 0W20 or 5W20 or 5W30 or 10W30 or 15W40.

But not 0W30 or 0W40 or 5W40 or 10W40.

Because some how both 0W16 and 15W40 are both good for my car, but 0W30 or 5W40 is bad for my car.

Got it!

The same people wrote the 6.6L Duramax owners manual. 15w40 and 5w40 are the two grades approved, but don’t use 10w40.

 

[kschachn]

Part of the issue is because oil grades are recommendations, not requirements nor approvals.

The other part is because they are very often dictated by outside influences which restrict the recommendation.

 

[kschachn]

I am looking for anecdotes of thin oil throwing codes, ostensibly from lack of oil pressure.

It’s not necessary. Using an oil that is too thin and provides insufficient MOFT is a self-regulating endeavor.

 

[spasm3]

When we have smaller spaces, we need thinner oil to fit through those smaller spaces. Suppose you put a thicker oil in a modern engine. One of the things that’s going to do is increase oil pressure. Variable valve timing works off oil pressure so you might wind up with a check engine light and a code for the variable valve timing, which could lead to some expensive repairs. (Motor week )


Repair Care of Maryland.
Variable Valve Timing Codes? It Could Be the Oil!
If all other components of a variable valve timing (V V T) system seem to be functioning
properly and the OBD codes will not go away, check to see if the oil has been changed
recently and if the proper grade of oil was used. Different grades of oil might look the
same, in the bottle, but do not act the same in the engine.
Vehicle oil must meet two criteria: It should be the proper Society of Automotive
Engineers (SAE) grade and viscosity and it should meet the American Petroleum
Institute (API) service classification for the vehicle. Both the SAE and API designations
can be found on the vehicle's oil fill cap or in the owner's manual.
The viscosity and grade of motor oil is what interests us here. Viscosity refers to how
easily oil flows. Two primary factors affect oil's viscosity: temperature and age. When
oil is hot, it flows quickly. Oil flows slower as it cools. As oil ages, the polymer additives
break down and the oil loses viscosity. The ability to flow smoothly in an engine is
important because most of the passages are tiny.
Most vehicles require multi-grade motor oil. This means the oil has characteristics of
both cold weather oil and warm weather oil. As an example, consider a vehicle that
requires a 5W30 grade of motor oil. This means that the oil has the flow properties of
a 5-weight oil when cold and a flow property of a 30-weight oil when warm. The "W"
means that the oil has been tested for cold weather use.
With more vehicle manufacturers employing variable valve timing systems on vehicles
to meet emissions and horsepower needs, how well oil flows through an engine
becomes very important. Many manufacturers use oil pressure or flow as the power
source to adjust the timing. If the wrong grade of oil is used or if the oil is old, the
flow properties could be insufficient. If this happens, the timing system will not work properly and the OBD system may set codes.

But as soon as you drive 1 mile over the border from Texas to Mexico the thicker oil works fine.

 

[Scott S]

Ok I’d double check- AZ website shows the M14 size. Amazon carries them all though.

Ford Parts
Engine Oil Drain Plug. Engine Oil Pan Drain Plug - M12 X 1.75.
Part #: EJ7Z6730B

 

[kschachn]

But as soon as you drive 1 mile over the border from Texas to Mexico the thicker oil works fine.

Probably because the electric oil pump senses the geographical change and remaps the ECU so the drive gear won't be sheared off.

 

[bdcardinal]

I used to buy into that thought process until the 5.0L Coyote started calling for 5W50 in the Boss 302 Mustangs and Track Pack GTs. There is probably some truth to it, but I think it probably is more dependent on the VVT design on that particular engine.

 

[OVERKILL]

I used to buy into that thought process until the 5.0L Coyote started calling for 5W50 in the Boss 302 Mustangs and Track Pack GTs. There is probably some truth to it, but I think it probably is more dependent on the VVT design on that particular engine.

Yup, and the HEMI's calling for 5W-20, later 0W-20 and 0W-40 (SRT/HD 6.4L and 6.2L) with the same rod and crank clearances. Or BMW changing the recommendation from 5W-30 to 10W-60 for some of the M cars, lol.