VOLKSWAGEN 502 00 / 504 00 / 508 00 / 511 00 APPROVAL LISTS
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@weasley, you clearly know things that the average bitoger doesn’t. I don't know if this is appropriate, but I wanted to ask if you happen to have information on some recently marketed oils and which have both "api SP & 504.00/507.00 approvals (and also 229.XX & LL-04 and a new opel one)". From the small google-fu sessions I was able to do, it turns out that only one of the four largest addco "officially" highlights these approvals, it is a company known as a big player in the implementation of 504.00/507.00 approvals. The second company (based in the UK) also offers an officially approved di pack for 504.00/507.00 but does not highlight too much the "modernity" of their package, they do offer a new package but without a vw approval so far. The two last addcos (both from the US) seem « lagging » when we talk about 504.00/507.00, none officially offers the appropriate packages.
Does an addco have any advantages over others in terms of development? If so, is it motivated by "science" or "strategic decisions"?
At one point you also talked about the fact that if an oil company extensively modifies an "approved" adpack, they should re-test the batch in question in order to get a new approval, is there really companies that are able to redo these tests? Maybe xom, shell, bp/castrol or total but what about the others? Thanks.
Does an addco have any advantages over others in terms of development? If so, is it motivated by "science" or "strategic decisions"?
At one point you also talked about the fact that if an oil company extensively modifies an "approved" adpack, they should re-test the batch in question in order to get a new approval, is there really companies that are able to redo these tests? Maybe xom, shell, bp/castrol or total but what about the others? Thanks.
This^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^^.
Thanks, man.
If you're also asking if "API SP" sitting on the jug is it any beneficial
next to VW 504 00/507 00, let me answer I think any API is obsolete
when your manual calls for VW 504 00 (or MB229.5/51, BMW LL-04
etc.). I don't see any benefit in API, whether SN+ or SP in that case.
On a side note:
I actually have seen on some European forums recommending using
API SP along with or even over manufacturer approvals. Preposterous!
.
Yeah I'd say it is more irrelevant rather than obsolete but that might be splitting an already split hair.
Granted, let's better call it irrelevant.
Regarding "grades":
All cars I ever owned, all manuals allowed for a variety of 'grades' including my 42 years
old Porsche (XW-30, XW-40, XW-50 at least). My Mini calls for the narrowest range from
0W-30 (LL-01 FE HTHS 3.2 or so) up to 5W-40 (LL-01 and LL-04, HTHS 3.7-3.9) as far as I
remember. My GTI (engine code DLBA) allows for VW 508 00 (0W-20, HTHS 2.7), VW 504
00 (0/5W-30, HTHS 3.5-3.7) and VW 502 00 (0W-30 to 5W-40, HTHS 3.5-3.9).
Anyway it's a fairly of a spread from 0W-20 HTHS 2.7 mPas up to 5W-40 HTHS 3.9 mPas
on the same engine and apparently the manufacturer doesn't see any issue at all. As I.
ps:
Personally I always try to hit the 'imaginative' sweet spot (or I suppose). Milder climate btw..
pps:
Similar question on Bitog:
Regarding "grades":
All cars I ever owned, all manuals allowed for a variety of 'grades' including my 42 years
old Porsche (XW-30, XW-40, XW-50 at least). My Mini calls for the narrowest range from
0W-30 (LL-01 FE HTHS 3.2 or so) up to 5W-40 (LL-01 and LL-04, HTHS 3.7-3.9) as far as I
remember. My GTI (engine code DLBA) allows for VW 508 00 (0W-20, HTHS 2.7), VW 504
00 (0/5W-30, HTHS 3.5-3.7) and VW 502 00 (0W-30 to 5W-40, HTHS 3.5-3.9).
Anyway it's a fairly of a spread from 0W-20 HTHS 2.7 mPas up to 5W-40 HTHS 3.9 mPas
on the same engine and apparently the manufacturer doesn't see any issue at all. As I.
ps:
Personally I always try to hit the 'imaginative' sweet spot (or I suppose). Milder climate btw..
pps:
Similar question on Bitog:
VW 502 00 and API SN PLUS?
Hi. First post here. Running a small VW with 1.2TSI (CJZD) and looking into oils for it. I plan on keeping the car for a very long time. I'm in no position to do a vehicle change for quite some time. To be honest, I'm just wanting to be done with the installment payments as they're killing me in...
bobistheoilguy.com
It may be splitting hairs but when you used to buy the same oil for the last 3-4 years, and all of a sudden you notice that the label went from nothing but euro approvals to some api "sp" added to these approvals, it implies at least a change in the formulation, you know...the marketing gimmicks behind anti lspi and tcwp; the need for new compounds and so on, just to make the oil sound more "modern". Lol.
Not that the addition of the "sp" cert to an vw approved oil is specially relevant, as a true bitoger, we want to be sure if the addition or the removal of some compound will actually do a favor to an engine in the long run. Remember, someone can go "mental" because of the lack of pao in a product's sds.
Not that the addition of the "sp" cert to an vw approved oil is specially relevant, as a true bitoger, we want to be sure if the addition or the removal of some compound will actually do a favor to an engine in the long run. Remember, someone can go "mental" because of the lack of pao in a product's sds.
As with many things, suppliers are motivated by demand. Where demand exists for a specification that a supplier feels they can deliver with a sustainable advantage (be it cost, performance or whatever) they'll go for it. This means that some may choose to sit out some specs due to high barriers to entry, such as the cost or availability of testing, or not having access to the technology to deliver it (perhaps a specification responds well to one type of detergent, dispersant, ZDDP or whatever and a supplier doesn't make it).
Anybody can run the testing necessary to achieve a published specification, so long as they have the money and resources to do it. Resources include not only people who know how to formulate, but also how to do it within the various codes of practise and read-across rules, how to reformulate if a test fails, a facility to blend the quantities needed for testing, the ability to find, book and ship oil to test houses, the ability to interpret and store the results reliably, the ability to transpose the data from testing into the OEM approval request process, the ability to manage the approvals in terms of keeping production the same as the approved formula, of managing expired approvals (either re-approving them or removing the spec from labels when they expire) and so on. Any enterprise with the resource to do this is likely to be relatively large or well-funded. They must be able to make a return on their investment though, so again, demand must justify it.
The alternative is to take a ready-made solution from an additive supplier and 'just add base oil'. Even this needs plenty of management to get it right and to maintain approvals.
All it really means is that it has an API license. The rest in your post is unsupported imagination. It still has the approvals listed. You really have no idea if there was a formulation change.It may be splitting hairs but when you used to buy the same oil for the last 3-4 years, and all of a sudden you notice that the label went from nothing but euro approvals to some api "sp" added to these approvals, it implies at least a change in the formulation, you know...the marketing gimmicks behind anti lspi and tcwp; the need for new compounds and so on, just to make the oil sound more "modern". Lol.
Not that the addition of the "sp" cert to an vw approved oil is specially relevant, as a true bitoger, we want to be sure if the addition or the removal of some compound will actually do a favor to an engine in the long run. Remember, someone can go "mental" because of the lack of pao in a product's sds.
@weasley , thanks for the explanation, it was very helpful and refreshing.
@kschachn why not? I don't know if any insider (@weasley once again) can disclose/confirm it but are you sure that when for example lubrizol were transitioning from their oldschool "lz213XX" to the more recent "pv25XX", was there no formulation change? The same with infineum when they were transitioning from their old "p6003" to the "n20 compliant p6003"; "p6080"; "p6800" or "p6780"? Oronite did the same with the upgraded "oloa 54510" which later became the "oloa 54530". All those di packs cover acea C3, with their lot of oem "approvals" and in some cases, for their latest iteration also sport the "SP" thingy.
@kschachn why not? I don't know if any insider (@weasley once again) can disclose/confirm it but are you sure that when for example lubrizol were transitioning from their oldschool "lz213XX" to the more recent "pv25XX", was there no formulation change? The same with infineum when they were transitioning from their old "p6003" to the "n20 compliant p6003"; "p6080"; "p6800" or "p6780"? Oronite did the same with the upgraded "oloa 54510" which later became the "oloa 54530". All those di packs cover acea C3, with their lot of oem "approvals" and in some cases, for their latest iteration also sport the "SP" thingy.
I guess I just couldn't care less so that influences my responses. If you do then go for it.
I don't know the details of the formulations within the additive packages you mention, but as a general response I would expect that a change of additive name would bring a change of technology within it. How big that change is is not known outside of those involved. It could be anything from a small rebalancing of components to a ground-up rebuild. Any change that happens though has implications on the approvals held. It could be that the changes are small enough and are within the OEM's allowed alterations to maintain the approval, but generally anything more than a small change would mean a new approval is needed. Whoever is doing the formulation change will know this from the start and so the testing required to gain this approval will be built into their development program.
@weasley, once again, thank you very much for the detailed responses. It gives a little glimpse of how the "industry" works. Some very interesting points made here. Obviously, if one's seeking for official approvals, i don't see anything wrong with using any product made by the "big players" or by some "honest indies"... if the price point is correct.
I’ve looked on the websites of Pennzoil, Valvoline. They all say they don’t have an oil for a 2020 VW Passat. Makes no sense. Under the hood of my VW Castrol is recommended but their website also says they don’t have an oil for my car. 
Go by the required or desired approval. What does your Passat say? Do either Pennzoil or Valvoline market an oil with that approval?I’ve looked on the websites of Pennzoil, Valvoline. They all say they don’t have an oil for a 2020 VW Passat. Makes no sense. Under the hood of my VW Castrol is recommended but their website also says they don’t have an oil for my car.
You note it recommends Castrol but you’re asking about two different blenders. A lot of that recommendation stemmed from the fact that VW sourced their branded oil from Castrol but that changed in 2020.
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If it says VW 508 00 just pick up VW's own VW 508 00/0W-20 which is
supposed to be made by Mobil. Excellent stuff and reasonably priced.
Feel free to tell me what your engine code and I'll research its suitable
approval(s). My 2018 GTI manual suggest both VW 502 00, 504 00 and
VW 508 00.
supposed to be made by Mobil. Excellent stuff and reasonably priced.
Feel free to tell me what your engine code and I'll research its suitable
approval(s). My 2018 GTI manual suggest both VW 502 00, 504 00 and
VW 508 00.
Yes. 2020 Passat. I was going off a spreadsheet someone posted elsewhere showing all the brands that offer vw508 spec oil. I only mentioned Castrol since it’s recommended under the hood which should mean Castrol oil with that spec should be easy to find but it’s not the case. I was hoping by now vw508 oil should easily found on store shelves but so far I can’t find it anywhere unless I order online. ECS tuning has plenty.
Where do I find the engine code? There’s a sticker under the hood that says to use VW 508/509 spec oil. It’s a 2020 Passat.
It’s not easy to find but it does exist. I don’t use 508 00 in our Tiguan and 504 00 is somewhat easier to find. If I wanted 508 I’d probably just get it at the dealer or online.
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