Victory XC notchy shifting

I'm curious if you guys know what sets the "V-Twin" and "4T" apart besides viscosity. I would assume the V-Twin would be designed to suite air cooled engines better and possibly more shear resistance due to the potential for V-Twin bikes being more torquey, being heavier and usually straight cut gears, ie higher loads. But I haven't able to find any info to confirm that. Either way both seem like great oils.
Mobil 1 10W-40 Racing 4T is marketed toward metric sport bikes.
Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin is marketed toward big V-twin bikes.
The difference is mainly the viscosity. Both oils are very robust and serve their purpose well. V-Twin has proven to hold up to big bike abuse in hot weather and long trips (according to others reports on BITOG).
 
T6 has always sheared quite a bit in any shared sump bike. ITs not just T6 either, that will happen with any 5/40/ Spread is too great.
Kind of odd with the foam and think ZeeOsix has a point with the oil being cold. I used to have a star 1300 tourer with the glass site window, I never saw such foaming, then again never used T6 but quite a few others have with no issues.
Just a shot in the dark here but are you sure your crankcase wasnt overfilled just a bit?

The 20/50 M1 VTWIN will actually thicken up in a non shared sump bike, Amsoil behaves in much the same way. So for shared sumps I think the 20/50 is more suited then non shared sumps, in a non shared sump you can be pushing close to a 60 weight after 5000 miles, something I personally wouldnt care for but in a shared sump will stay stable and according to others maintain shift quality. If these weren't considered high quality oils, in the old days they would be accused of "oxidizing" !

Well, I got the new tire on the back of the Road King installed the other day by an indy shop. All set for a ride up to Maggie Valley for a few nights, Of course, I cant get that perfect weather forecast (last couple years been dicey weather wise though we normally get lucky) and why I was in a rush for the new rear tire before we left. Thankfully found a Dunlop American Elite with very recent date code on it. Normally I prefer the Harley Dunlops, they got us through so many storms over the years, dealers all out of stock (covid related and think we are at the point they are catching up with production and why I ever found this one) ... always been curious about this Dunlop anyway.
Think we are going to get wet the first two days... but maybe we will get lucky ... odds not in our favor at 40 to 60% chance of storms though...
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The K1600 has helical cut transmission gears? Every cycle transmission I've seen has straight cut gears that slide on a splined shaft (no syncros), and gear "dogs" to lock into the adjacent gear during a shift

Car manulal transmissions have helical cut gears, but use syncros when meshing gears during a shift
Ya, I was looking up specs on them a little while back. I was kinda surprised to see that too. I want to ride one, but don't at the same time since I'll probably want it. I'm not too keen on the style but my buddies dad in the owner of a BMW/KTM dealer (used to sell Victory and Polaris as well, but the way Polaris pulled the plug on Victory left a very bad impression on many dealers with multiple lines and quite a bit of dealers said F-you to Polaris) and of all the bikes he's ridden he says the K1600 is the most comfortable and easiest to put miles on, they even claim better than the goldwing..... Plus it hauls ass!!!
I have heard a lot of complaints about T6 thinning quickly since the last re-formulation, but usually from T6 5w-40 users, not 15w-40 (but really have not heard of a lot of people using T6 15w-40 either).

I have some Peak 15w-40 syn blend in my Goldwing that I am changing earlier than I was planning due to shifting issues (but only about 500 miles earlier than planned).
I was going to do a 5,000 mile interval, but in the past few hundred miles have noticed a marked difference in shifting. Still plan on using the same Peak oil (I have 3 more changes left of it), but will be doing a 4,000 mile interval instead.
I will go to Mobil 1 HM 10w-40 after that, but the Wing does not sound like it is as hard on oil as yours is.
I did a lot of reading on T6 before trying because I'm the type of guy that likes to stick with oils designed for the intended use. The only thing I found was possible clutch slippage when specifically researching Victory. I noticed the same thing you mentioned. Quick shearing on the 5w-40 but it seemed like 15w-40 did not generally have that issue.

I'm thinking the issue happened by compounding factors. High heat, then high heat and high altitude, high load (me+gear+luggage=325-350lbs) and me riding it hard in the mountains. It likely wouldn't happen again if used T6 15w-40, but now I have my doubts in the oil. Makes me wonder how much better other oils would perform by comparison. I've read great things about M1 20w-50 holding shear stable. So I think that's going to be my next try. Even considered SAE 40 after reading some stuff about that.
 
Mobil 1 10W-40 Racing 4T is marketed toward metric sport bikes.
Mobil 1 20W-50 V-Twin is marketed toward big V-twin bikes.
The difference is mainly the viscosity. Both oils are very robust and serve their purpose well. V-Twin has proven to hold up to big bike abuse in hot weather and long trips (according to others reports on BITOG).
Thank you very much! I was curios if they formulated it more toward air cooled engines as well since they generally run higher oil temps. I've seen some reports of people claiming slightly cooler running temps using M1 20w-50 compared to their previous oil. But I feel like there are too many factors to be accurate when it's a +/- 5 degrees.
T6 has always sheared quite a bit in any shared sump bike. ITs not just T6 either, that will happen with any 5/40/ Spread is too great.
Kind of odd with the foam and think ZeeOsix has a point with the oil being cold. I used to have a star 1300 tourer with the glass site window, I never saw such foaming, then again never used T6 but quite a few others have with no issues.
Just a shot in the dark here but are you sure your crankcase wasnt overfilled just a bit?

The 20/50 M1 VTWIN will actually thicken up in a non shared sump bike, Amsoil behaves in much the same way. So for shared sumps I think the 20/50 is more suited then non shared sumps, in a non shared sump you can be pushing close to a 60 weight after 5000 miles, something I personally wouldnt care for but in a shared sump will stay stable and according to others maintain shift quality. If these weren't considered high quality oils, in the old days they would be accused of "oxidizing" !

Well, I got the new tire on the back of the Road King installed the other day by an indy shop. All set for a ride up to Maggie Valley for a few nights, Of course, I cant get that perfect weather forecast (last couple years been dicey weather wise though we normally get lucky) and why I was in a rush for the new rear tire before we left. Thankfully found a Dunlop American Elite with very recent date code on it. Normally I prefer the Harley Dunlops, they got us through so many storms over the years, dealers all out of stock (covid related and think we are at the point they are catching up with production and why I ever found this one) ... always been curious about this Dunlop anyway.
Think we are going to get wet the first two days... but maybe we will get lucky ... odds not in our favor at 40 to 60% chance of storms though...View attachment 63655
I was running 15w-40 because I saw reports of the 5w-40 shearing far faster than 15w-40, which makes sense. But I haven't read much about shearing issues as soon as I did with the 15w-40. Like my post above this I think it was a combo of factors that made it shear so quickly. It likely would last longer with my day to day riding. But I now have less confidence in T6 for my bike and likely won't use it again, especially since it was my first time trying it. EDIT: I don't believe the oil was overfilled. When I checked after the oil change it was just below the full mark when the bike was level. Also checked it a couple times during the trip and it stayed the same. When I drained it (when I took pic of the oil drain pan) was warmed up by idle and holding the revs at 2k every once in a while for about 10 min total, ambient temp while doing that was upper 80's so it warms up pretty quick, especially with no air flow.

I don't think thickening will be bad for my bike since it is shared sump. May even help to be honest. In NW IA our temps tend to change pretty drastically. We don't get many days were the weather stays consistently between 40F-60F, so riding season stops pretty abruptly around me. This is also why I'm curious about the Schaeffers 20w-50 V-Twin oil. I've always been a fan of their oils, but haven't seen any reports on here about the 20w-50 which surprises me.

Hopefully you like that tire! I know the go-to on Victory Cross Country's are Dunlop Elite 4's which I have on mine. They have been really good for me. Got really low (scraping floor boards while shifting my weight) on some of the mountain pass corners and they did very well. Haven't had much experience with rain, but they seemed good when I have been caught in the rain. I had some Dunlop performance tires on my supermoto and hated them so these E4's on my XC really impressed me. On my supermoto I found Bridgestone BattleAxe tires to be best for that. But they are completely opposite spectrums of bikes..... A light street legal dirt bike that can get as low as you dare in corners vs an almost 1000lb behemoth made to eat miles like a fat kid at Golden Coral. haha

Safe travels! Hope the trip goes well!

This is how much tire I was able to use on this trip. You can see the 1/8"-1/4" of the edge is all I couldn't touch, but that was due to hitting hard parts....Also I believe I have about 8k miles on this tire for reference.

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^^^ Yes, I look at the M1 20/50 as a positive in a shared sump bike, others who have used it state shifting quality has held up.

I was not able to confirm lower oil temps using full syn against semi syn. I was interested in this as well because of posts, even if there was a difference it is so slight that I doubt much outside the margin of error. I just did this test a year ago. I actually have 5 UOAs in the MC section.
I do know my oil temperatures like the back of my hand. I have a digital oil temperature dipstick on my bike for the last 6 years or so.
I can guess oil temperature for just about every riding condition before I even check the temperature now.
 
^^^ Yes, I look at the M1 20/50 as a positive in a shared sump bike, others who have used it state shifting quality has held up.

I was not able to confirm lower oil temps using full syn against semi syn. I was interested in this as well because of posts, even if there was a difference it is so slight that I doubt much outside the margin of error. I just did this test a year ago. I actually have 5 UOAs in the MC section.
I do know my oil temperatures like the back of my hand. I have a digital oil temperature dipstick on my bike for the last 6 years or so.
I can guess oil temperature for just about every riding condition before I even check the temperature now.
Awesome!! Do you remember where you got that oil temp gauge at? Victory used to make one that was mechanical but unless I stumble upon a used one, they are impossible to find.
 
Awesome!! Do you remember where you got that oil temp gauge at? Victory used to make one that was mechanical but unless I stumble upon a used one, they are impossible to find.
Its actually a Harley Davidson Digital dipstick (oil level) AND oil temperature gauge. Been very reliable, never expected it would last this long.
We ride in HOT weather, many of my UOA's made mention of oil temps close to the 270 degree range in extreme conditions, like stuck in beach traffic. Harley lists normal range at 230 degrees.
For me, normal is up to 250 degrees @ interstate speeds of 80 MPH in HOT weather.

An interesting fact that I have learned was the faster I go with air blowing through the cooler and engine, the higher the oil temperatures. Someone taught me that is because the bottom of the pistons are sprayed with oil at high speeds to cool the pistons which would make sense as to why many bike brands do not have oil cooler fans. At slow speeds they do not have the oil pressure to be sprayed and nor is it needed. This is my understanding as explained to me many years ago and it all makes perfect sense because this is exactly how the oil temperature runs on my bike.

Before the Harley gauge I did try an aftermarket, analog gauge from a "respected" site/company, it was disappointing and returned it.

BTW- unrelated but I was sad to see Polaris shut down Victory. I REALLY, REALLY liked the CrossRoads, almost bought one back in 2011 or 2012 (?) Loved the bike, loved the price, and most of all, @ 5'11" fit me like a glove. I just wasn't ready at that moment, daughter was in college and I already had a bike Vstar 1300. I feel like they made a mistake putting everything into Indian. But what do I know? I just know, Ill never own an Indian but certainly might have owned a Victory.
I should say never to anything but you get the idea I am sure.
 
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shift quality refers to judgment shaped by personal opinions and feelings
instead of actual outside influences... in other words done in a blind
test it will show that humans are easily fooled...
 
When notchy shifting vs non-notchy shifting is obvious, it's not guessing...
Yep, people that ride the same bike all the time will be able to tell when shifting quality and clutch performance changes. And if it improves with an oil change then it's not hard to conclude the oil was the root cause.
 
That's a common problem when using Rotella in a motorcycle in that it really breaks the oil down fast. I know Shell at least used to list JASO MA/MA2 on the container but for me I'm not using it for that and leave the Rotella for Diesel's and small engines. I'm using Valvoline Synthetic Motorcycle oil in my Ninja 650 and you can get it from Walmart for a good price. I was using Castrol Actevo 10w40 which is a blend but after experiencing notchy shifting after running that for awhile I made the switch. I know the Valvoline you can get in 10w40 & 20w50, same with the Actevo & Mobil 1, Castrol does make other weights in their full synthetic 10w50, 10w60 but good luck finding those. I've noticed the Advance stores in my area has started selling Shell which I'd like to try but it's very expensive even compared to Mobil 1. So far I really like the Valvoline and it shifts smooth and seems to be holding up very well, I'm talking their silver bottle, the black one is their conventional oil.

If you have any Indian dealers around they have full synthetic oil change packages that include the filter. The Victory & Indian bikes are practically the same, both are owned by Polaris, from what I understand that Victory was their more experimental brand up until they got Indian and then they got in bad shape and had to let one of them go which is why they kept Indian because of the name recognition. The Victory is a great motorcycle and I know lots of people are very fond of them.
 
I'm using Valvoline Synthetic Motorcycle oil in my Ninja 650 and you can get it from Walmart for a good price. I was using Castrol Actevo 10w40 which is a blend but after experiencing notchy shifting after running that for awhile I made the switch. I know the Valvoline you can get in 10w40 & 20w50, same with the Actevo & Mobil 1, Castrol does make other weights in their full synthetic 10w50, 10w60 but good luck finding those.
I'm running the non-synthetic Valvoline 10W-40 motorcycle oil in my Yamaha XSR900 right now and it's been shifting good over the last 2500 miles. I'd imagine the full synthetic Valvoline might even be better. Have an oil change coming up soon on the XSR and have some Castrol Power 1 10W-40 full synthetic on deck, so will be interesting to see how that works.
 
I'm running the non-synthetic Valvoline 10W-40 motorcycle oil in my Yamaha XSR900 right now and it's been shifting good over the last 2500 miles. I'd imagine the full synthetic Valvoline might even be better. Have an oil change coming up soon on the XSR and have some Castrol Power 1 10W-40 full synthetic on deck, so will be interesting to see how that works.
I haven't used it yet but a long time ago Auto Zone was getting rid of their Castrol oil and I picked up a lot of Power 1 and Power RS, the bottles were seriously dusty and can't imagine how long they've been sitting but evidently had been on the shelf for a very long time but not concerned about that. The Walmart's in my area have all changed their selection of oil's so you may have to find a Super Walmart, the one that's in my area still keeps stock of the harder to find oil's that I use especially having a better selection of motorcycle oil.

When I was breaking in my Ninja I bought Kawasaki oil but the conventional 10w40, it seemed to work ok for awhile but did experience notchy shifting but the bike was still being broken in, sometimes it would get hung up in between gears and you couldn't shift up or down so I eventually switched to the Actevo which was better but so far I'm really liking the Valvoline. I had some Kawasaki leftover that I used to change in the mower last time and works great.
 
Mystik JT8 15w50 semi synthetic?

I have seen some positive reviews on this forum about the Mystic JT8. I prefer synthetic oils, however I know many bikes have zero issues over 100k on semi-syn oil as well. I think I'm going to try M1 20W-50 to see how that goes, maybe try the Mystic JT8 after that. I do want to try the Schaffers 20W-50 V-Twin, but there is little info on this forum about it which leads me to believe it's not popular for a reason. Then again it is a boutique oil and many people don't have local dealers for it.

shift quality refers to judgment shaped by personal opinions and feelings
instead of actual outside influences... in other words done in a blind
test it will show that humans are easily fooled...

Umm, this is not accurate one bit. When going on a 1700+mile road trip you tend to notice when something like shift feel deteriorates. Especially when it takes a noticeable amount more of force to shift up or down. Yes I had the clutch pulled in all the way and the cable is adjusted properly where there is about 3-4mm of slack at the end of my clutch lever travel and fully disengaged at about half pull. Also my buddy with the same bike, more miles felt completely normal when comparing the two on the trip, I can't recall the oil he is using.

That's a common problem when using Rotella in a motorcycle in that it really breaks the oil down fast. I know Shell at least used to list JASO MA/MA2 on the container but for me I'm not using it for that and leave the Rotella for Diesel's and small engines. I'm using Valvoline Synthetic Motorcycle oil in my Ninja 650 and you can get it from Walmart for a good price. I was using Castrol Actevo 10w40 which is a blend but after experiencing notchy shifting after running that for awhile I made the switch. I know the Valvoline you can get in 10w40 & 20w50, same with the Actevo & Mobil 1, Castrol does make other weights in their full synthetic 10w50, 10w60 but good luck finding those. I've noticed the Advance stores in my area has started selling Shell which I'd like to try but it's very expensive even compared to Mobil 1. So far I really like the Valvoline and it shifts smooth and seems to be holding up very well, I'm talking their silver bottle, the black one is their conventional oil.

If you have any Indian dealers around they have full synthetic oil change packages that include the filter. The Victory & Indian bikes are practically the same, both are owned by Polaris, from what I understand that Victory was their more experimental brand up until they got Indian and then they got in bad shape and had to let one of them go which is why they kept Indian because of the name recognition. The Victory is a great motorcycle and I know lots of people are very fond of them.

I haven't seen the Valvoline full synthetic in my area, but I'll look around a bit more. I think I saw the Shell at an Advance Auto but it was close to $15 a qt, so thats a no go in my book. lol I don't mind spending more for a quality oil, but $75 (5qts, my bike 4.25qts) in oil only is a bit out of hand IMO. Good call on the Indian oil as they have an almost identical overall setup and they make a lot more torque so I'm sure the oil is more robust considering the amount of shear they expect.

As far as the whole Victory and Indian debacle. The way I was told by my close buddies dad (the one mentioned in the above quote) was a Victory, Polaris dealer (as well as KTM and BMW, now KTM, BMW, CFMoto and SSR) that it was completely by surprise. Their regional rep (and many others) knew that Indian was getting bigger back in 2015/2016 and the regional reps were being told there was a new production line being retooled for a new Victory due to release in 2017 or 2018, I can't recall. In late 2016 the rep in our region was super excited about a regional rep meeting because they were expecting a new bike in the Victory line-up, he was telling our dealer about the potential new bike as well, there was nothing on even the regional reps radar about Victory going away. Once they had their meeting and were thoroughly caught off guard they had to break their news to their dealers. Obviously that did not make dealers happy either as they were expecting and hoping for a new model. Just imagine being pumped for a new model and find out that in a year that Victory would be shut down! My heart probably would have sank into my gut being a rep or dealer. Not to mention to stay a Victory Certified repair shop the shop owners would still have to pay their annual fee to Polaris (I don't know the cost of that, but I know it's not cheap!), now that's a kick in the nuts to boot. Many smaller dealers like his gave the middle finger to Polaris and stopped carrying any of Polaris's line-up after 2017. Even though many shops that previously sold Victory may not be an "authorized" Victory dealer, but they obviously still have the tools and years of experience to know many common or uncommon problems.

FWIW, I haven't talked with that dealer about the type of oil to use because they like to use OEM only for almost everything so I already know what the answer will be.
 
It's just crazy, I was really interested in the Octane but seems like soon after they released it then Victory ceased to exist. I spoke with one of the local dealers, they did have Victory but they are also a Polaris, Kawasaki & Suzuki dealer, I asked them if they thought about bringing in Indian and he said that they didn't want to invest the money in upgrading the dealership to put in hard wood floors and everything else that Indian required of their dealers. A friend of mine just recently purchased a used 2016 Indian Scout 60 that he really likes.
 
I was selling Indian/Victory's at a large multi dealership when the Victory line was discontinued. The dealer received an email overnight advising them that the Victory line was being discontinued. They had no clue it was coming. Indians were certainly outselling Victory's, but Victory had all the bugs worked out and were (are) dead reliable bikes.
 
It's just crazy, I was really interested in the Octane but seems like soon after they released it then Victory ceased to exist. I spoke with one of the local dealers, they did have Victory but they are also a Polaris, Kawasaki & Suzuki dealer, I asked them if they thought about bringing in Indian and he said that they didn't want to invest the money in upgrading the dealership to put in hard wood floors and everything else that Indian required of their dealers. A friend of mine just recently purchased a used 2016 Indian Scout 60 that he really likes.

Ya, brands get really picky about appearance and it can be very difficult when a dealer has multiple brands under one roof. I've heard really good things about the Scout, looks like a blast to ride and plenty of power but I would look ridiculous on one being 6ft and 240ish. haha

I was selling Indian/Victory's at a large multi dealership when the Victory line was discontinued. The dealer received an email overnight advising them that the Victory line was being discontinued. They had no clue it was coming. Indians were certainly outselling Victory's, but Victory had all the bugs worked out and were (are) dead reliable bikes.

Dang! Ya, it was sure a slap in the face to all the Victory dealers and owners. I know many Victory riders that will not own another Polaris product due to how Polaris handled the situation. I'm pissed for my buddies dad, but I'm not one to say "never" when it comes to vehicle brand. Lots of things change and I've heard many great things from Indian riders. However I still see more Victory's than Indians while on the road. I haven't been able to find any hard numbers on sales comparison to verify any of that though.

Were you in contact with many of the riders or techs and see what oil they preferred? I know you mentioned JT8, just wondering if that was based off of personal experience?
 
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