Valvoline Extended Protection Full Synthetic vs. Mobil 1 Extended Performance

[billt460]

So do the rising oil levels due to fuel dilution effect the car in a negative way? Does fuel dilution cause negative side effects that impede the normal functioning of any ICE in general? Is fuel dilution in GDI vehicles actually an issue?

Oil in the crankcase should not become diluted with gasoline.... PERIOD. For ANY reason. To suggest otherwise is being foolish.

What's next, Honda selling hail damaged vehicles for full price? Because let's face it, the dents caused by hailstones, "do not impede the normal functioning of the car in general".

 

[Ignatius]

At least Toyota and others fixed the issue with additional injectors.

How does dual injection prevent blowby? I would think that blow by has more to do with piston ring clearances.

 

[billt460]

How does dual injection prevent blowby? I would think that blow by has more to do with piston ring clearances.

Bingo. Most ALL of these fuel dilution issues can be laid right at the doorstep of loose fitting piston rings. All purposefully designed into the engine for less rotational resistance.... Less rotational resistance = higher fuel economy.... Higher fuel economy = more CAFE credits.... More CAFE credits = $$$$$....

You can park all of these water thin oils they're employing in these new engines into the exact same category. All are being used to allow the engine to turn more freely.

Whoever it was above that said, "This is the new normal", is exactly correct. None of it is doing ANYTHING for improved engine life. In fact, most of it is working against that very goal.

If someone disagrees with that, please explain how taking an already too thin of a motor oil, then making it worse by diluting it with as much as 25% gasoline, (1/2 to 1 quart depending on OCI), is going to improve the life of ANY engine?

 

[Ronin73]

Valvoline for the 100% synthetic base oil

Valvoline does not have 100% syntetic base oil.

 

[Ignatius]

Bingo. Most ALL of these fuel dilution issues can be laid right at the doorstep of loose fitting piston rings. All purposefully designed into the engine for less rotational resistance.... Less rotational resistance = higher fuel economy.... Higher fuel economy = more CAFE credits.... More CAFE credits = $$$$$....

You can park all of these water thin oils they're employing in these new engines into the exact same category. All are being used to allow the engine to turn more freely.

Whoever it was above that said, "This is the new normal", is exactly correct. None of it is doing ANYTHING for improved engine life. In fact, most of it is working against that very goal.

If someone disagrees with that, please explain how taking an already too thin of a motor oil, then making it worse by diluting it with as much as 25% gasoline, (1/2 to 1 quart depending on OCI), is going to improve the life of ANY engine?

Aside from what you said about rotational resistance it was always my understanding, and I in no way am an expert on any subject, that reduced piston ring clearances would allow for more blowby so to reduce tailpipe. emissions. More of what would normally be intended to go out of the combustion chamber into the exhaust system would now be going into the crankcase instead.

 

[BigShug681]

Oil in the crankcase should not become diluted with gasoline.... PERIOD. For ANY reason. To suggest otherwise is being foolish.

What's next, Honda selling hail damaged vehicles for full price? Because let's face it, the dents caused by hailstones, "do not impede the normal functioning of the car in general".

that comparing apples to oranges, again does fuel dilution actually cause an issue? Are these specific Honda’s or just any known diluter littering the shoulders of streets? Are junkyards packed to the brim with just GDI vehicles?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Valvoline does not have 100% syntetic base oil.

Yeah I'm guessing to get a 100% synthetic base oil, you have to go boutique and exotic. The $15+ a quart stuff.

 

[aquariuscsm]

Oil in the crankcase should not become diluted with gasoline.... PERIOD. For ANY reason. To suggest otherwise is being foolish.

What's next, Honda selling hail damaged vehicles for full price? Because let's face it, the dents caused by hailstones, "do not impede the normal functioning of the car in general".

Hey, at least you wouldn't have that anxiety of wondering when your brand new car will get it's very first ding. It's comes standard with the option package

 

[kschachn]

Valvoline does not have 100% syntetic base oil.

Does anyone?

 

[aquariuscsm]

Does anyone?

Afaik, negative. Correct me kscachn if I'm wrong, but doesn't motor oil need a petroleum carrier, like a group two or something?

 

[Escape08]

M1 the official oil of NASCAR. !

Million of $$$ are pouring into NASCAR simply by sponsorships

 

[kschachn]

Afaik, negative. Correct me kscachn if I'm wrong, but doesn't motor oil need a petroleum carrier, like a group two or something?

Well a Group I, II and III are going to be chemically similar if not identical. The solubility problem comes with PAO:

Polyalphaolefin (PAO) Lubricants Explained

Polyalphaolefin PAO base oils are superior to many other lubricant types and have a higher temperature resistance to mineral oil.

www.machinerylubrication.com

 

[kschachn]

that comparing apples to oranges, again does fuel dilution actually cause an issue? Are these specific Honda’s or just any known diluter littering the shoulders of streets? Are junkyards packed to the brim with just GDI vehicles?

At some point it could be an issue, hard to get around the physics. An adequate MOFT is ultimately what prevents wear and as the oil is progressively diluted with a low-viscosity fluid such as gasoline you can't avoid thinning the oil. As is always the case a UOA isn't necessarily going to show a problem but that doesn't mean there can't be one. With significant fuel dilution I wouldn't want to run an oil that has a marginal HT/HS to begin with, but maybe that's just me.

 

[PimTac]

Bingo. Most ALL of these fuel dilution issues can be laid right at the doorstep of loose fitting piston rings. All purposefully designed into the engine for less rotational resistance.... Less rotational resistance = higher fuel economy.... Higher fuel economy = more CAFE credits.... More CAFE credits = $$$$$....

You can park all of these water thin oils they're employing in these new engines into the exact same category. All are being used to allow the engine to turn more freely.

Whoever it was above that said, "This is the new normal", is exactly correct. None of it is doing ANYTHING for improved engine life. In fact, most of it is working against that very goal.

If someone disagrees with that, please explain how taking an already too thin of a motor oil, then making it worse by diluting it with as much as 25% gasoline, (1/2 to 1 quart depending on OCI), is going to improve the life of ANY engine?

Maybe we should go back to big V8 engines with carburetors and manual chokes? That would solve the fuel dilution problem.


Oh wait.

 

[vwmaniaman]

In my hemi 5.7 the Valvoline is the quietest

 

[billt460]

Maybe we should go back to big V8 engines with carburetors and manual chokes? That would solve the fuel dilution problem.

I've had big V-8's with carburetors all through the 60's, and well into the 80's. I never had a single one that raised the oil level in the crankcase because of fuel dilution..... Ever.

But none of them had sloppy, loose fitting piston rings either.

 

[billt460]

Aside from what you said about rotational resistance it was always my understanding, and I in no way am an expert on any subject, that reduced piston ring clearances would allow for more blowby so to reduce tailpipe. emissions. More of what would normally be intended to go out of the combustion chamber into the exhaust system would now be going into the crankcase instead.

That is exactly what is happening. And it's also the reason why Honda hasn't fixed it. And why they're running around their service centers telling everyone, "it's normal", when it's anything but.

Honda is stuck with this dog with fleas, because if they tightened up the piston ring clearances to fix it, (which is what is required), it would then blow them out of the water with CAFE, because the mileage would drop enough, (due to increasing the rotational resistance of the engine itself), to where they would lose CAFE credits. So they are living with it..... Or to put it more accurately, they're telling their customers they have to live with it.

 

[billt460]

that comparing apples to oranges, again does fuel dilution actually cause an issue?

Go dump a quart of gasoline into your crankcase at every oil change, then come back after 100,000 miles and tell us. We'll wait.

 

[PimTac]

It seems like this piston ring explanation is a bit exaggerated. The rings have to fit properly or the cylinder compression would be affected.

A bigger problem with rings would be coking in the lands which would affect their movement.

 

[billt460]

It seems like this piston ring explanation is a bit exaggerated. The rings have to fit properly or the cylinder compression would be affected.

A bigger problem with rings would be coking in the lands which would affect their movement.

How is it exaggerated? All of this nonsense started when they designed these loose fitting rings, all in order to decrease rotational resistance of the crankshaft. Loose piston ring fit is what is causing this. And it is also the reason why they won't fix it.