Using ACEA C3 Oil where SN and SN Plus is required

Interesting that it does not have an API license. Common thinking is any oil with the starburst is safe to use in your engine as long as it meets your engine's requirements. Basically, avoids shady gas station oil. First big name brand I can recall without an API rating. Even Castrol Edge Euro lists old SL rating.
 
Interesting that it does not have an API license. Common thinking is any oil with the starburst is safe to use in your engine as long as it meets your engine's requirements. Basically, avoids shady gas station oil. First big name brand I can recall without an API rating. Even Castrol Edge Euro lists old SL rating.
That's not the market for this product and it won't meet the requirements for a current API license. Pretty irrelevant considering the approvals it has, how many gas stations sell ESP?
 
That's not the market for this product and it won't meet the requirements for a current API license

This is my main concern about the ESP oils. If the API SP requirements it doesn't meet is fuel conserving/economy related, I'm not concerned. However, if it's LSPI, IVD, timing chain, etc related, I would be concerned running it. I just can't seem to find that answer with absolute certainty.
 
This is my main concern about the ESP oils. If the API SP requirements it doesn't meet is fuel conserving/economy related, I'm not concerned. However, if it's LSPI, IVD, timing chain, etc related, I would be concerned running it. I just can't seem to find that answer with absolute certainty.
Looking at a recent VOA, the concern would be with LSPI as this employs the traditional Ca overbase.

IVD and TC wear should be much improved over the fragile M1 AFE 0W30.

Link to @himemsys report:

 
Looking at a recent VOA, the concern would be with LSPI as this employs the traditional Ca overbase.

IVD and TC wear should be much improved over the fragile M1 AFE 0W30.

Link to @himemsys report:

“Fragile”?
 
Never mind. I see you’re taking about AFE not ESP. M1 ESP has the same essential properties for both grades. Sorry I missed that.

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Interesting that it does not have an API license. Common thinking is any oil with the starburst is safe to use in your engine as long as it meets your engine's requirements. Basically, avoids shady gas station oil. First big name brand I can recall without an API rating. Even Castrol Edge Euro lists old SL rating.
Absolutely irrelevant in European oils. European manufacturers moved from API in the beginning of 90’s as it was not stringent enough. Nothing changed since then.
 
I guess with the FB20/25, I'm not sure how much LSPI is a concern. Probably not as much as it is on their TGDI engines.
With 12.5/1 compression on regular gas it is a concern - but not as bad as turbo. If you have a stick you can moderate the LSPI event somewhat. My wife has a stick Subaru.
 
With 12.5/1 compression on regular gas it's a concern - but not as bad as turbo. If you have a stick you can moderate the LSPI event somewhat. My wife has a stick Subaru.

Now that I think about it, I had a scanner attached to my Crosstrek last summer and monitored KR under normal driving. I did see some minor KR at low rpm's/higher loadings, but not high enough load for the CVT to change it's gearing. Nothing I could hear, but obviously the knock sensors picked it up. This was with Valvoline EP 0w20 too, an SP rated oil and 87 octane fuel.
 
LSPI isn’t the same as regular pre-ignition knocking, the causes and prevention are different. Altering timing via the knock sensors won’t prevent it, and studies on LSPI haven’t shown a correlation to the fuel octane rating.
 
Interesting article. Especially this comment:

For oils with the same formulation style, with all components and concentrations apart from the detergent held constant, the formulation with an all Magnesium detergent had a substantially lower fuel economy performance than the formulation with an all Calcium detergent.

 
I'm actually playing around with going to HPL PCMO 5w30 in both of our vehicles. It seems, for the $$$, and my OCI's, it may be the best oil option period.

Crosstrek: Doing 3 month OCI's with Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 would cost me $148/year for the oil at the current prices. If I went to HPL 5w30 and went to 4 month OCI's, this would cost me $140/year at current 5 gallon HPL prices shipped to me. After 3 months I'm typically well under 3,000 miles, so I bet after 4 month's I'd not be much more than 3,000 miles. These FB GDI motors have shown to have some moderate fuel dilution issues, so I prefer to do short OCI's. Subaru calls for 3 month/3,000 mile OCI's for severe use, which includes short tripping.

Acadia: Doing 3 month OCI's with Mobil 1 EP 5w30 would cost me $167/year for the oil at current prices. If I went to HPL 5w30 and went to 4 month OCI's, this would cost me $177/year at current 5 gallon HPL prices shipped to me. After 3 months she's typically right around 3,000 miles, so at 4 month's she'd probably be right around 4,000 miles and still well below when the OLM tells her to change her oil.

So, for both vehicles it would cost us $2 more per year to move to HPL @ 4 month OCI's vs off the shelf oil @ 3 month OCI's. If HPL's standard PCMO is as good as everybody says it is, the decision is a no brainer.

I know the OCI's listed are -way- too short for a lot of you (and I won't disagree), however, with both vehicles being GDI I really want to error on the side of caution in the hopes it benefits us long term. We both plan on keeping these things awhile and want to do everything to limit the "issues" of GDI-only fuel systems long term.

Having said that.....thoughts??
 
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I'm actually playing around with going to HPL PCMO 5w30 in both of our vehicles. It seems, for the $$$, and my OCI's, it may be the best oil option period.

Crosstrek: Doing 3 month OCI's with Mobil 1 ESP 5w30 would cost me $148/year for the oil at the current prices. If I went to HPL 5w30 and went to 4 month OCI's, this would cost me $140/year at current 5 gallon HPL prices shipped to me. After 3 months I'm typically well under 3,000 miles, so I bet after 4 month's I'd not be much more than 3,000 miles. These FB GDI motors have shown to have some moderate fuel dilution issues, so I prefer to do short OCI's. Subaru calls for 3 month/3,000 mile OCI's for severe use, which includes short tripping.

Acadia: Doing 3 month OCI's with Mobil 1 EP 5w30 would cost me $167/year for the oil at current prices. If I went to HPL 5w30 and went to 4 month OCI's, this would cost me $177/year at current 5 gallon HPL prices shipped to me. After 3 months she's typically right around 3,000 miles, so at 4 month's she'd probably be right around 4,000 miles and still well below when the OLM tells her to change her oil.

So, for both vehicles it would cost us $2 more per year to move to HPL @ 4 month OCI's vs off the shelf oil @ 3 month OCI's. If HPL's standard PCMO is as good as everybody says it is, the decision is a no brainer.

I know the OCI's listed are -way- too short for a lot of you, however, with both vehicles being GDI I really want to error on the side of caution in the hopes it benefits us long term. We both pan on keeping these things awhile and want to do everything to limit the "issues" of GDI-only fuel systems long term.

Having said that.....thoughts??
After I use up my vast supply of ESP 0W-30, I think I will switch to ESP 5W-30 if all looks good. I live in the temperate PNW where temps rarely get below 20°F in the winter. These temps are also more conducive to using a catch can as we have previously discussed.😎
 
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