UPS MD-11 Crashes on Takeoff

[MolaKule]

Yes, but a C97 didn't have such thing.

That propulsion system used recip P&W engines. It should be obvious that different propulsion systems require different mounting structures and methods.

I just find it very strange that a purposely weakened bolt would be used to transmit incredible amounts of thrust to the airframe and also carry the G loads for huge engines that weigh around 7 tons or more. Purposely weakened bolts that could form stress cracks and then fuse when they should not be fusing.

It is not a purposely weakened bolt. Any bolt, solid or hollowed out, has a load limit. Fuse pins or bolts are designed to break (shear) at predetermined loads.

See post #7 https://bobistheoilguy.com/forums/threads/molakule-q-a-on-aircraft-structures-iii.395792/

"The Pylon, also called an engine mount, is a structure positioned between the engine and the wing or fuselage.

It is designed to not only carry the dead weight of the engine, but also torque and engine thrust, both forward and reverse.

The pylon attaches to the engine "case" via two or more attachment points. The pylon attaches to the wing or fuselage via two or more attachment points as well.

The pylon not only has to resist various loads, but also acts as a conduit for systems such as hydraulics, electrical, and engine bleed. Below are diagrams for a pylon, the first being a general description and the second being a more detailed diagram.

Items called Fuse pins and hollow "Fuse" bolts are also incorporated into the pylon structure.

The second part of this question is: What is the purpose of Fuse pins and hollow "Fuse" bolts?

Last edited: May 20, 2025"

 

[fdcg27]

...and, the first lawsuit is already filed, naming Boeing, GE and UPS as defendants.
Plaintiff's attorney has asked that the suit be designated a class action.

https://www.lpm.org/news/2025-11-07...ue-ups-ge-and-boeing-after-deadly-plane-crash

 

[Danno]

Most towns have avigation easements but it's buried in the paperwork. People tend to sign then only later realize what they've signed.

Having signed one, if you have any kind of a competent lawyer, they make it really clear on what you're signing.

 

[MolaKule]

...and, the first lawsuit is already filed, naming Boeing, GE and UPS as defendants.
Plaintiff's attorney has asked that the suit be designated a class action.

https://www.lpm.org/news/2025-11-07...ue-ups-ge-and-boeing-after-deadly-plane-crash

Just what we need for more topic drift.

 

[Faawrenchbndr]

Opposite. Ford Hapeville plant in Atlanta was built in 1947 and the airport eventually surrounded it on 3 sides. The airports are the cockroaches.

Well, that’s not really correct now is it.
Candler Field’s ground breaking was in 1925. The first flight into the field was in September 1926. So the beginnings of the airport as we know it in Atlanta nowadays began in 1925.


So, yeah…… the airfield was there long before the Ford plant

 

[MolaKule]

Simple Flying has an interesting history of aircraft that have lost engines and pylon damage:

https://simpleflying.com/can-an-aircraft-survive-a-complete-engine-separation-during-takeoff/

 

[Number_35]

The C-97 didn't have engines carried in underwing pods either.
The type did have its share of problems in service, as well as in the civil airliner model B-377.
Of the 55 377 civil aircraft built 13 were involved in hull loss accidents, a loss rate significantly worse than the MD-11.
Not much to brag about since the MD-11 has seen a total of ten hull loss accidents of the 200 built, but it has also remained in service for far longer than that vintage piston Boeing.

The Boeing 377 Stratocruiser was a passenger carrier derived from the B-50 bomber, which in turn was an upgraded version of the B-29 Superfortress. From memory, I think the B-29's four air-cooled radials were each 2200 HP, whereas the B-50's and 377's engines were each 3500 HP.

Was there a tanker version too? The KC-197 Stratotanker? (Reaching deep into the memory banks now.)

The Stratocruiser had a Figure-8 fuselage, with a lower level which included a lounge.

In the brilliantly illustrated late-'50s comic book Dennis the Menace in Hawaii, the flights from SFO to Honolulu return are in a 377.

I'm enjoying browsing through the old LIFE magazines available online. One issue c. mid-1954 has a dramatic story about a 377 that took off, and had the front landing gear twist sideways and not retract. It landed safely.

The B-29 and the 377 (and perhaps the B-50) were plagued with engine trouble, typically due to overheating.

A workaround for the B-29s was for the pilots to fly low until a fair bit of fuel had been burned off. That lightened the aircraft enough that the engines were not stressed nearly as much when later climbing to altitude. By one account, engine life was tripled.

Fascinating family of aircraft.

 

[SC Maintenance]

Well, that’s not really correct now is it.
Candler Field’s ground breaking was in 1925. The first flight into the field was in September 1926. So the beginnings of the airport as we know it in Atlanta nowadays began in 1925.


So, yeah…… the airfield was there long before the Ford plant

My understanding was the Hapeville "plant" was in fact Ford Property forever - just not a plant. It was a warehouse for Model T's that they would assemble downtown at an old plant there, or maybe it was a parts warehouse - can't remember exactly.

The airport in 1925 was miles from the Ford Plant. Now Hartsfiel takes up the entire area. The runway is 2 and a half miles long. Its swallowed up everything that was there - some good, some not so much.

The reality is that in every major city in the late 1800's the industrial revolution saw construction of industrial areas just outside of downtown, and when it was time to build an airport, they put them in the industrial area. So its the airports overtaking the industrial's, not the other way around.

And yes, I have been in the Hapeville plant - back in the day. Not the model T warehouse

 

[Faawrenchbndr]

Having signed one, if you have any kind of a competent lawyer, they make it really clear on what you're signing.

My understanding was the Hapeville "plant" was in fact Ford Property forever - just not a plant. It was a warehouse for Model T's that they would assemble downtown at an old plant there, or maybe it was a parts warehouse - can't remember exactly.

The airport in 1925 was miles from the Ford Plant. Now Hartsfiel takes up the entire area. The runway is 2 and a half miles long. Its swallowed up everything that was there - some good, some not so much.

The reality is that in every major city in the late 1800's the industrial revolution saw construction of industrial areas just outside of downtown, and when it was time to build an airport, they put them in the industrial area. So its the airports overtaking the industrial's, not the other way around.

And yes, I have been in the Hapeville plant - back in the day. Not the model T warehouse

Ok…….i dunno, you win

 

[FowVay]

A question out of curiosity. About how much clearance is between the outer edge of that fan blade, and the inside of the housing?

On the CF6 the fan blade is made of solid titanium. It spins inside a aluminum fan housing that is surrounded by an kevlar containment belt. The inner surface of the fan housing is lined with acoustic fiberglass panels at the fwd edge of the housing and the fan blades track on a syntactic potting that is sacrificial and wears away as the blades creep during operation. The syntactic potting will wear as much as 1/4" or more over the life of acoustic panels.

 

[ctechbob]

...and, the first lawsuit is already filed, naming Boeing, GE and UPS as defendants.
Plaintiff's attorney has asked that the suit be designated a class action.

https://www.lpm.org/news/2025-11-07...ue-ups-ge-and-boeing-after-deadly-plane-crash

Sheesh, ambulance chase much Mr. Attorney?

 

[edyvw]

Actually I've been following this. For at least the last 10 plus years all homes near DIA have mandatory avigation easements. Meaning if you buy a home near DIA you can't sue for noise etc.
"A Denver International Airport (DIA) avigation easement is a legal agreement granting the right for aircraft to fly over property near the airport, including the right to associated noise, dust, and vibration. This easement ensures an unobstructed flight path and can restrict property owners from building tall structures, planting tall trees, or creating electromagnetic interference. If a property is in the airport's influence district, it's typically required to grant this easement before subdividing or obtaining a building permit".
People have sued but lost.

My mistake.
It was this:
https://sentinelcolorado.com/0trend...se-lawsuit-over-new-homes-near-future-runway/

 

[Nuclear_42]

Looks like UPS & FedEx grounding MD-11 indefinitely.

https://apnews.com/article/ups-plane-crash-explosion-kentucky-md11-32f96f28019c286031befe6d05bb424f

 

[billt460]

Looks like UPS & FedEx grounding MD-11 indefinitely.

https://apnews.com/article/ups-plane-crash-explosion-kentucky-md11-32f96f28019c286031befe6d05bb424f

That aircraft has had it's difficulties, that's for sure. From cargo doors blowing open destroying flight controls, to engines falling off on takeoff, and just about everything in between. Very unfortunate.

When we flew to Vegas for our honeymoon back in 1983, we flew on one. Now I'm starting to feel, "lucky". Not to mention this is just about the last thing Boeing needs right now.

 

[97prizm]

Looks like UPS & FedEx grounding MD-11 indefinitely.

https://apnews.com/article/ups-plane-crash-explosion-kentucky-md11-32f96f28019c286031befe6d05bb424f

What percentage of those make up their fleets?

 

[billt460]

What percentage of those make up their fleets?

"As of November 2025, UPS has a total of 49 McDonnell Douglas MD-11 aircraft in its fleet, (-1), with 25 currently in active service and the remainder either stored or scrapped". (About 9%).

https://www.google.com/search?q=how+many+MD+11's+does+UPS+have?&sca_esv=c4f930c117b1d5e6&biw=1024&bih=482&sxsrf=AE3TifPPYDudhCfZOFU8SRZVJZaX5NmjeA:1762594656821&ei=YA8PaZjzMfKc0PEPmvrsuQg&ved=0ahUKEwiYo5zjoOKQAxVyDjQIHRo9O4cQ4dUDCBE&oq=how+many+MD+11's+does+UPS+have?&gs_lp=Egxnd3Mtd2l6LXNlcnAiH2hvdyBtYW55IE1EIDExJ3MgZG9lcyBVUFMgaGF2ZT9IokdQkglYlzRwAXgBkAEAmAGbAaABkgiqAQMyLje4AQzIAQD4AQGYAgagAtYFwgINECMY8AUYsAMYJxjJAsICChAAGLADGNYEGEfCAggQIRigARjDBMICBhAAGAcYHsICCBAAGAcYCBgemAMAiAYBkAYFkgcDMS41oAeuJbIHAzAuNbgHyQXCBwcyLTIuMi4yyAdR&sclient=gws-wiz-serp

 

[Dave Hess]

Looks like UPS & FedEx grounding MD-11 indefinitely.

https://apnews.com/article/ups-plane-crash-explosion-kentucky-md11-32f96f28019c286031befe6d05bb424f

They still have more years left in their service life if maintained properly.

The repair shop and mechanics that worked on this MD-11 are under a microscope from investigators.

 

[rszappa1]

They still have more years left in their service life if maintained properly.

The repair shop and mechanics that worked on this MD-11 are under a microscope from investigators.

Yup look at the B52 and C130....been around a long time and still flying....

 

[fdcg27]

Yup look at the B52 and C130....been around a long time and still flying....

Sure, but the military puts nothing like hours or cycles on an airframe that commercial operators do.

 

[rszappa1]

Sure, but the military puts nothing like hours or cycles on an airframe that commercial operators do.

true but these two planes are much much older and as far as the B52 it is still used to carry nuclear bombs...