UPS MD-11 Crashes on Takeoff

[slo town]

I had no doubt that it was true. The same information is available to any of us who wish to google around.
My point was that the fatigue cracking and corrosion were hardly revelatory and were no more than would be expected in a heavy check of an aging airframe. Found, repaired, no problem.

I wasn't doubting you @fdcg27. It's just that I pretty much distrust anything on the news or MSM. All I was doing was saying the news was true based on the inside information I had. I knew this before it became public on MSM.

This failure could be pure coincidence, but I wouldn't want to be on one of the teams who did the 6 week heavy on that aircraft.

Scott

 

[thescreensavers]

With all the videos and failed engine left behind, NTSBs initial report won't be far away.

 

[MolaKule]

This failure could be pure coincidence, but I wouldn't want to be on one of the teams who did the 6 week heavy on that aircraft.

Scott

Maintenance records are always part of the NTSB investigation, but there is currently no evidence that poor maintenance caused the crash of the MD-11 freighter.

Air crashes are normally caused by multiple factors, usually involving a series of cascading events.

 

[xspeedy]

Yep. Agreed. And as Billt460 posted, if the hydraulics are damaged there, the slat on that wing could retract causing the plane to roll over just like what happened with the DC-10 back in '79. I saw a dashcam video of this crash that showed the left wing dipping (with no engine on it) and clipping a power line then the cra slat locks to prevent that retraction.

Slat locks were added after 191.

 

[john_pifer]

Juan Browne released an update video a few hours ago. He says it’s been determined that the pylon became detached along with the engine, similar to AA191.

 

[IndyFan]

Many years ago, my boss' good friend, John, was a mechanic for UPS out of Newark (NJ). On one occasion, he refused to allow an aircraft to depart because the captain's seat adjustment was broken. His supervisor demanded that John sign off and release that flight. John refused and suggested that the supervisor sign it himself. The supervisor wouldn't do it either, the flight got delayed until the seat was fixed, and John got suspended for a week without pay.

He's 100% right to have drawn a line on that. A Cessna Cardinal once took off from a nearby small airport and the pilot did not check the seat latch. The seat belts were attached to the seat and the pilot had short legs. On acceleration, the seat slammed all the way to the back. He could not reach the yoke or pedals and the aircraft took off, climbed too steeply (he did not apparently neutralize the trim, and then it stalled and crashed before the end of the runway and he was killed.

Seems like a simple thing but it can cause big problems.

 

[97prizm]

So if the engine stopped spinning suddenly, as @Cujet mentioned before, the torque could cause the motor to snap off.

IDK if it's just me, but this material on the intake of the engine seems weird. I presume it could have collected it when it was sliding down the runway after it detached, but there shouldn't be anything on the tarmac to begin with.

FOD?

Maybe this is evidence of something that was sucked in and potentially slowed or stopped the engine? I would presume the engine is strong enough to pulverize most objects but I guess anything is possible?

View attachment 308802

If the improper procedure was used to hang the engine it could have damaged the pylon. It's weird how much weight and thrust an engine pylon can handle yet side to side it wasn’t designed for. The image is interesting it looks like fuzz or grass on the top front. Also wasn't the engine facing the opposite way on the runway?

 

[97prizm]

This picture does not have as much detail as would be preferred, so when zoomed-in, one can only make guesses. In the picture of the CF6-80C2D1F engine on the ground, it appears as though both the fan containment ring and the low-pressure assembly has been forced aft, i.e., "squashed." Could this be from impact with the ground in a nose-down attitude from the height mentioned by the NTSB? View attachment 308843
Looking at the rear of the engine, it also appears the high-pressure or the turbine area has been ruptured as well. Whether this resulted from ground impact or in flight is undetermined.

I am sure once this engine has been transported indoors, much analysis will be done.

To me both compressor sections are twisted showing rotation at the time of impact.

 

[97prizm]

He's 100% right to have drawn a line on that. A Cessna Cardinal once took off from a nearby small airport and the pilot did not check the seat latch. The seat belts were attached to the seat and the pilot had short legs. On acceleration, the seat slammed all the way to the back. He could not reach the yoke or pedals and the aircraft took off, climbed too steeply (he did not apparently neutralize the trim, and then it stalled and crashed before the end of the runway and he was killed.

Seems like a simple thing but it can cause big problems.

Aviation accidents are usually a bunch of tiny missteps over a period of time that comes to a head.

 

[MolaKule]

I think there is a slight misundestanding of what is inside the pylon. See post #86 and the link.

The pylon is designed to suspend the engine under certain maximum lateral, vibrational, and torqueing (twisting) loads.

If the engine hits an obstruction on the runway, the fuse bolts inside the pylon-to-engine attachment points break and the engine falls off.

If the engine torques beyond a certain limit, or if there is excessive vibration, the engine is supposed to break away from the pylon and fall as before.

Excessive vibration is usually caused by one or more fan blades missing. Overlimit torque can be caused by internal debris locking up the rotating parts, but this situation rarely happens.

As Juan Browne notes above, finding the pylon has also separated is problematic. The engine is supposed to separate from the pylon, but the pylon is supposed to remain attached to the wing attachment points, usually the front and rear wing spars.

 

[Exhaustgases]

First off how incredibly stupid is it to allow any sort of petroleum plant at the end of any airfield runway, at any location in the US especially?


I enjoy the term fuse bolts. I suppose the wings use them as well? There was never any talk of fuse bolts and such on say a DC-7.
I guess thousands of pounds of thrust and huge G loads won't break them? If so those engines would be dropping like fly's. Hmmm that did happen on a brand new 707 in years past, was it all 4 engines decided to leave the plane?

Where are the "fuse" bolts located on a C-97 engine mount?

 

[MolaKule]

First off how incredibly stupid is it to allow any sort of petroleum plant at the end of any airfield runway, at any location in the US especially?

What if those buildings were there before the runways were extended?

I enjoy the term fuse bolts. I suppose the wings use them as well? There was never any talk of fuse bolts and such on say a DC-7.
I guess thousands of pounds of thrust and huge G loads won't break them? If so those engines would be dropping like fly's. Hmmm that did happen on a brand new 707 in years past, was it all 4 engines decided to leave the plane?

Where are the "fuse" bolts located on a C-97 engine mount?

I find.these questions incredibly ridiculous.

 

[billt460]

First off how incredibly stupid is it to allow any sort of petroleum plant at the end of any airfield runway, at any location in the US especially?.......

This is common at Chicago O'Hare, DFW, Atlanta Hartsfield, as well as several of the major airports in this country, and around the world. They are not really "Petroleum Plants" per say.

But rather very large tank farms and storage facilities, in order to accommodate the massive amounts of fuel required to keep these large aircraft fueled. They all pump ungodly amounts of fuel per day.

They have to be located close by. In fact, if I'm not mistaken, Delta Flight 191, (Lockheed L-1011), that hit a microburst and crashed at Dallas Ft. Worth back in 1985, slammed into one of these large tanks that was located on airport property, and put a massive dent in it.

 

[rszappa1]

They did a FOD walk yesterday and found multiple pieces of fan blades from the engine that fell off along the runway...

 

[rstsco]

NTSB reporting successful download of FDR and CVR data. FDR having many hours of 460 parameters of data covering the past 24 flights, including the accident flight. CVR has about two hours of data, including the accident flight.

 

[Faawrenchbndr]

First off how incredibly stupid is it to allow any sort of petroleum plant at the end of any airfield runway, at any location in the US especially?


I enjoy the term fuse bolts. I suppose the wings use them as well? There was never any talk of fuse bolts and such on say a DC-7.
I guess thousands of pounds of thrust and huge G loads won't break them? If so those engines would be dropping like fly's. Hmmm that did happen on a brand new 707 in years past, was it all 4 engines decided to leave the plane?

Where are the "fuse" bolts located on a C-97 engine mount?

How many tens of thousands of flights have flown over those buildings with zero issues?

And it’s not a petroleum plant, it’s what they call a tank farm. So this particular craft alone took off with approximately 38,000 gallons of fuel where do you think they put all that fuel? Do you think that when an aircraft needs fuel they call a truck and a truck drive from 65 miles away to fill that particular airplane? Cause that’s not how it’s done.

Buildings at the end of runways, factories, chemical plants, that stuff always happens near an airport. Airports are originally built away from everything. Us being cockroach humans, we spread and invade and build. An industrial Park area like an airport is perfect for factories and warehouses and chemical plants, it’s just common sense.

 

[Bailes1992]

I always feel the victims in these situations are the friends and family of the deceased. Looking at the video itself, death would have been painless and fast. Not a bad way to go really.

 

[rszappa1]

I always feel the victims in these situations are the friends and family of the deceased. Looking at the video itself, death would have been painless and fast. Not a bad way to go really.

Not really the terror you go through just prior to the crash....That would not be painless....

 

[SC Maintenance]

Buildings at the end of runways, factories, chemical plants, that stuff always happens near an airport. Airports are originally built away from everything. Us being cockroach humans, we spread and invade and build. An industrial Park area like an airport is perfect for factories and warehouses and chemical plants, it’s just common sense.

Opposite. Ford Hapeville plant in Atlanta was built in 1947 and the airport eventually surrounded it on 3 sides. The airports are the cockroaches.

 

[edyvw]

First off how incredibly stupid is it to allow any sort of petroleum plant at the end of any airfield runway, at any location in the US especially?


I enjoy the term fuse bolts. I suppose the wings use them as well? There was never any talk of fuse bolts and such on say a DC-7.
I guess thousands of pounds of thrust and huge G loads won't break them? If so those engines would be dropping like fly's. Hmmm that did happen on a brand new 707 in years past, was it all 4 engines decided to leave the plane?

Where are the "fuse" bolts located on a C-97 engine mount?

Tank farm. What is your solution?
Denver Airport was built far away from city bcs. noise etc. Well, now city caught up with airport. City of Aurora, like most city councils, plays into hands of developers. They built again close to airport. Then, house owners sued airport for noise, and won!
It is the most ridiculous thing. Not airport fault that things get built close by.