Trying to start a discussion.

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You do have some proof of this assertion, yes?





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Really? You have something to back up that statement. Or are you just blurting out an unqualified opinion that you read somewhere




Before those guns get reloaded for more potshots - there's actually quite a few car owners with mid nineties & older engine designs and/or users of aftermarket cams that have legitimate concerns about SM oils.

Remember this New Oil is Killing Our Cars article that we discussed a couple of months ago.

For anyone with an older engine design that generates sliding type friction in the valve train, HDEO oils are probably the safest option.
 
We've been running cars with catalytic converters on SL oil for years. I don't recall reading of any recent changes in converter technology. I see no problems with SL oil.
 
Thanks for all the replies. I'm leaning toward using the oil. By the way, I'd better not try the WalMart thing since it's a brand they don't even sell.

As to the Nissan - she paid $13K for the last one, drove it for 10 years, put $400 in non-routine maintenance into it, and sold it with original exhaust, shocks, and brakes for $5,500. Didn't seem too bad.
 
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For intervals of 2000 miles or less? If it was mine, I'd run that SL oil & not worry a bit.
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I can't believe it took 7 replies to get to a sane response.. The SL oil will work just fine, no worries at all.
 
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Thanks for all the replies. I'm leaning toward using the oil. By the way, I'd better not try the WalMart thing since it's a brand they don't even sell.




A much more impressive answer would have been "By the way, I'd better not try the WalMart thing since that would dishonest and tantamount to stealing."
 
That is a good article... Here are few others..

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
"Phosphorus is the key component for valve train protection in an engine, and 1600ppm (parts per million) used to be the standard for phosphorus in engine oil. In 1996 that was dropped to 800ppm and then more recently to 400ppm - a quarter of the original spec. Valvetrains and their components are not especially cheap to replace and this drop in phosphorus content has been a problem for many engines. So why was the level dropped? Money. Next to lead, it's the second most destructive substance to shove through a catalytic converter. The US government mandated a 150,000 mile liftime on catalytic converters and the quickest way to do that was to drop phosphorous levels and bugger the valvetrain problem. Literally.
In the US, Mobil 1 originally came out with the 0W40 as a 'European Formula' as it was always above 1000 ppm. This initially got them out of the 1996 800ppm jam and knowledgeable consumers sought it out for obvious reasons. Their 15W50 has also maintained a very high level of phosphorus and all of the extended life Mobil synthetics now have at least 1000ppm. How do they get away with this? They're not classified as energy/fuel conserving oils and thus do not interfere with the precious government CAFE (corporate average fuel economy) ratings."

http://www.lnengineering.com/oil.html
Oil companies have been cutting back on the use of Zn and P as anti-wear additives, and turning to alternative zinc-free (ZF) additives and ashless dispersants since Zn, P, and sulpherated ash have been found to be bad for catalytic converters. One such ZF anti-wear additive is boron. Most of the SM and CJ-4 oils we tested contain significant concentrations of boron (B) to offset the reduction of Zn and P. The performance of these zinc-free anti-wear additives has only been proven with ultra-low sulphur fuels, not readily available in the United States with exception of new diesel fuels since 2007. Since we are discussing aircooled engines specifically, the highest levels of boron we found were in Harley Davidson’s SYN3 motor oil, which is specifically formulated for an aircooled engine, but at levels six to ten times that of what is present in any reformulated SM or CJ-4 motor oil. Additionally, Harley's SYN3 didn't reduce the Zn or P, just supplemented it with the added boron. Similarly, Swepco's 306 has high levels of boron in addition to high levels of Zn and P.

According to leading studies, Boron works best in the presence of Zn and P and may better serve to complement these anti-wear additives than as a replacement for them. This reduction is a mandate issued by API, American Petroleum Institute, who is in charge of developing standing standards for motor oils. In 1996, API introduced the API SJ classification to reduce these levels to 0.10% or less. The latest API SM standard for car oils calls for a zinc and phosphorus content less than 0.08% to reduce sulfur, carbon monoxide, and hydrocarbon emissions. As a result of this mandate, some motor oils now have as little as 0.05% zinc and phosphorus.



BTW, there seems to be a difference of opinion in what type of ZDDP is good as well..

"The two types of antiwear wear films studied, derived from zinc dialkyl dithiophosphate (alkyl ZDDP) and zinc diaryl dithiophosphate (aryl ZDDP), were chosen because they possess significantly different wear characteristics. High resolution AFM topographic images showed significant differences between the two types of films. More interestingly, high resolution imaging and quantitative mechanical properties testing using the interfacial force microscope (IFM), revealed different elastic and plastic properties between the two types of films; in addition each type of film possessed several distinct regions with respect to mechanical properties. The maximum values for elastic modulus and hardness were located on the highly loaded regions of the alkyl ZDDP films which exhibited the best tribological performance. In contrast, the aryl ZDDP films, which exhibited poorer antiwear behaviour, were devoid of such resilient regions. "
 
That's why I disagreed in another thread when some people maintained that the newest oils are always going to be better in every way than the oils they replace, like SM and SL.
 
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That is a good article... Here are few others..

http://www.carbibles.com/engineoil_bible.html
"Phosphorus is the key component for valve train protection in an engine, and 1600ppm (parts per million) used to be the standard for phosphorus in engine oil. In 1996 that was dropped to 800ppm and then more recently to 400ppm - a quarter of the original spec.




This is incorrect. It was dropped to 1000ppm for GF-2/GF-3 and down to 800ppm for GF-4.
 
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...Trade off is that SM oils do not protect your valvetrain as SL do.



You do have some proof of this assertion, yes?
Or are you making an assumption?

IMO, conventional wisdom would be much wiser if it stopped using assumptions and hearsay for its ammo.




I have one of those "older cars" with flat tappets that "could" be effected by lower ZDDP. As I understand flat tappets are primarily used in hotrods/race applications for very high rev'ing engines to prevent valve float.

Most of the concern is proper break-in in these cases and the SM testing has testing for flat tappet applications as discussed below (Bob Olree knows something about this..
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http://theoildrop.server101.com/forums/s...part=1&vc=1

If you don't have flat tappets then don't worry.

You can read about racers not using high ZDDP or proper procedures during break-in and blowing engines so it can be a concern if your putting in a new cam/lifters then do homework.
 
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