Tribologist discusses 0W8 motor oil

[fdcg27]

Aside from outliers like certain BMW and Hyundai engines, I'd doubt that using the grade and spec that the OEM recommends on the OCIs they recommend will prevent any engine from reaching 200K+ with low oil consumption and good running condition.
We've had this thick versus thin debate here quite often.
Meanwhile, millions of cars run on oil grades as thin as 0W-20 or lower with no problems at all.

 

[TiGeo]

 

[ZeeOSix]

Recall a video on YT where the guy was running 5W-20 even on track days because he thought it would "help keep oil temps down", then he shows his rod bearings after a tear down and the bearings were pretty worn through the top layers on the top sides of the bearings where the MOFT is the smallest. Nothing like learning about things first hand.

 

[gfh77665]

I’m gonna double click from now on just for you.

As you wish. I don't care. Too juvenile for me.

 

[camrydriver111]

From now on all you will hear is Kermit and Cookie Monster when you watch their vids - you’re welcome.

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Would he do a collaboration?

Even Scotty doesn't test oils at home or get into thick vs thin debates.

He says you should look at the approvals and what is recommended in the manual.

 

[ATex7239]

Would he do a collaboration?

Even Scotty doesn't test oils at home or get into thick vs thin debates.

He says you should look at the approvals and what is recommended in the manual.

Are you seriously overthinking a meme?

 

[ATex7239]

View attachment 212200

 

[Foxtrot08]

One thing I really agree with him on is you can't just use TBN to determine proper drain intervals with modern ultra low sulfur fuels. Between that and that engine builder from Nissan/Infiniti telling people if they want their engine to last hundreds of thousands of miles they should change their oil every 2k it's even more reason for me to keep my 3k interval.

The proof is in the pudding, if my Hyundai can make it to 231,000 miles, still have 180psi compression, a mirror like finish on all the valvetrain components and burn no oil by keeping to 3k oil changes its obviously not a waste.

Just food for thought. While he is a CLS, and quote a “motor oil geek” - he comes from the background of the racing world and performance engine building.


He does not come from the “real world” of lubricants. Fleet, commercial, industrial and large scale PCEO. Where fuel isn’t perfect, conditions aren’t perfect. Where the operators and users aren’t perfect. Etc.

It was in another thread here where I said this. Lake and I have very similar educations, paths in life. But mine is all from the C&I / Fleet side of things, as a distributor / marketer. I get it, gasoline you get out of the pump isn’t perfect. Your operating conditions might range from -10f while you sit in bumper to bumper traffic, to 110f while you take the 10 mile highway drive home.

I also get it from the OEM manufacturers eyes. 1 engine failing isn’t a major issue. Stuff happens. QA happens. Having massive issues across the entire line up? That’s a problem. That was a design error.

So when he talks about TBN, he’s looking at it from more of an ideal situation / book view. It’s what is said in the books basically. Which we all know is out dated and there’s the real world issues on top of that.


Now onto the project farm: if you take any of his oil reviews seriously. Especially with the one armed bandit… I don’t think I have anything positive to say. Please don’t take anything that fraud does as serious advice. If you don’t want to believe me, you do you. But… yeah.

 

[camrydriver111]

Scotty is alway good for a laugh. I like him. He doesn’t take himself too seriously

Except that time he got into a fight with a kid over headlight polishing.

I liked his older vids where he was wrenching on cars, grunting when the tightened bolts and jumping out of trunks. The new ones have too much talking.

 

[TiGeo]

Ok, let's put the nail in this thread, what does RAT540 think of 0W8 and how would it fair in his "Engineering test data" list?

 

[ATex7239]

Except that time he got into a fight with a kid over headlight polishing.

I liked his older vids where he was wrenching on cars, grunting when the tightened bolts and jumping out of trunks. The new ones have too much talking.

Kid probably had it coming…

 

[Jetronic]

"There is not a magical drain interval number." - LSJ

I agree with that. I finally watched the part where he's talking about drain intervals. Oil analysis should dictate the interval otherwise you're guessing.

But if an oil analysis costs nearly as much as an oil change, you'd be better of halving the interval and not doing an analysis....

 

[Bill_W]

If you just focus on the oil side of it then your whipping boy is CAFE regulations and your super powers to bearing wear is HT/HS higher viscosity. The bigger picture is the fuel blend in the world region used, and all the hardware in the modern engine designed to work for the oil. I can even imagine the ECM computer is also designed for that region.
The proof could be a tear down of the engine, maybe…. But the real proof is the vast majority of people do follow the manufacturers directions and have excellent long living engines with thinner oil. Even the Military has changed their standard 10w40 to much thinner oil.

 

[buster]

But if an oil analysis costs nearly as much as an oil change, you'd be better of halving the interval and not doing an analysis....

True. Or sample to get a general baseline/idea then sample every other year or so.

 

[AEHaas]

Thinner oils can perform well especially when their film strength is higher. It was shown to me that film strength is like graphite or a deck of cards spread on a table. You can slide things around on these layers with almost infinite "thinness". Viscosity is a separate entity that has no connection to film strength. It is only when sharp particles of large sizes exceed the space that wear can occur.
Ali

 

[kschachn]

Thinner oils can perform well especially when their film strength is higher. It was shown to me that film strength is like graphite or a deck of cards spread on a table. You can slide things around on these layers with almost infinite "thinness". Viscosity is a separate entity that has no connection to film strength. It is only when sharp particles of large sizes exceed the space that wear can occur.
Ali

Can you explain how film strength is important to an ICE?

Film thickness I agree is important. But I’m a little fuzzy on the whole film strength situation.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Thinner oils can perform well especially when their film strength is higher. It was shown to me that film strength is like graphite or a deck of cards spread on a table. You can slide things around on these layers with almost infinite "thinness". Viscosity is a separate entity that has no connection to film strength. It is only when sharp particles of large sizes exceed the space that wear can occur.
Ali

Film strength - ie, the tribofilm on surfaces due to the AW/AF additives - is the secondary wear protection mechanism. In hydrodynamic and mix boundary lubrication, viscosity will always be the main mitigator of wear. The tribofilm is the backup when the film thickness (MOFT) goes to zero and moving surfaces start rubbing together. Higher viscosity gives more MOFT headroom before it goes to zero and relies on the film strength (tribofilm) to take over to help reduce wear. Yes, the advancements in AW/AF additives have helped oil viscosity to be reduced, but viscosity will always be #1 in terms of wear protection.