2 Valvoline Restore & Protect tests

[ltslimjim]

Great points. Yup, that's the one. The interval was roughly a year, but that in itself won't explain contamination, which was clearly the major issue there. I'm using their SS 10W-30 in that car this OCI and may have it analyzed next time I change it. If I do, I'll definitely post the results here.

My point wasn't at all that I or anyone else couldn't run longer intervals, but rather as a word of caution and a reminder that unexpected and unpredictable things can happen and that assuming it's safe to run longer intervals without even having any data to back up your assumption other than what someone else did may not work out well.

Like I said, how many people do you think would have guessed that I would have had to change Amsoil SS after roughly 6K highway miles in a D series Civic engine that calls for 10K mile OCI's on conventional oil from the 90's? I certainly wouldn't have guessed that.

I agree with the approach. I just wanted to point out even Amsoil will say “OR 1 Year” on the severe service intervals for their SS. It is definitely worth a word of caution. Could you imagine going 2 years without seeing the TBN either? Just blindly going by miles without considering the time isn’t wise. Definitely interested in what the current fill looks like in a new report.

 

[Avery4]

I agree with the approach. I just wanted to point out even Amsoil will say “OR 1 Year” on the severe service intervals for their SS. It is definitely worth a word of caution. Could you imagine going 2 years without seeing the TBN either? Just blindly going by miles without considering the time isn’t wise. Definitely interested in what the current fill looks like in a new report.

Great point, but I believe the 1 year limitation has more to do with short trips, potential idling in traffic, etc than the oil going bad in a year just sitting in the pan.

My scenario is fairly unique since I have several vehicles I regularly drive and I pretty much only drive on longer highway trips with very minimal idling, traffic, short trips, etc, so I'm not overly concerned about time for my application.

I wasn't concerned about the TBN because I don't have any plans of doing extended OCIs, so I just assumed that it would be okay for up to the perhaps 5-6K highway miles I'd actually run it for since Amsoil SS was intended as an extended drain oil, but without testing, there's no way to know for sure.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

Perhaps under ideal conditions, but what are the long term effects? Are those engines still clean and reasonably healthy after, say, 300K miles?

There are also plenty of people doing extended oil changes with plenty of different reputable oils and wondering why they ended up with an oil burner at 100K miles.

To me, the risk vs reward of heavily extended OCIs just isn't worth it. I realize that type of thing is a game to many people and that's cool, but the way I see it, by the time you buy a very expensive oil and filter and have it analyzed a million times to see what the "right" interval is for your usage, you could have just changed it at, say, 5K miles and probably have a longer lasting engine for cheaper.

And if/when the extended OCI idea goes wrong, who will be out? Do you think the oil manufacturer or oil analysis company is going to replace your prematurely failed engine because they told you that you could go 20K miles between oil changes and you believed them? How much do you trust their advice?

I have a Blackstone report showing that my Amsoil SS needed to be changed after "only" ~6200 mostly highway miles despite that Civic calling for 10K mile OCIs on conventional oil from the 90's.

If I asked how long I should have run Amsoil SS in a low stress Civic engine that spends most of its life on the highway, how many people do you think would have guessed 6K miles?

I wish people would understand this. These extended oil changes are causing issues around 90,000. People that change oil at 5,000 have no issues. They don’t substance the severe service category which 99% of drivers fall under. Nobody falls under normal usage. I’ve seen it too much at every manufacturer dealer I’ve worked at.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I'm confident that my Civic most definitely could go much further than 10k on its HPL runs. Very clean motor, & doesn't burn a bit. I'm not sure I'd feel comfortable doing that with the Rodeo considering the amount of varnish. Dave recommended testing if I were to go past 10k, but felt it wouldn't be an issue taking it to. If the oil becomes too dark for my liking before 10k, I will happily dump it for fresh knowing that it's cleaning things up.

I’ve replaced a whole lot of Honda engines ruined from extended oil changes. I’ve seen customers bring me oil analysis showing the oil is good to 10,000 miles but the engine shows differently at 90,000 miles when drinking more oil than someone who ran a 5k

 

[Titan]

I’ve replaced a whole lot of Honda engines ruined from extended oil changes. I’ve seen customers bring me oil analysis showing the oil is good to 10,000 miles but the engine shows differently at 90,000 miles when drinking more oil than someone who ran a 5k

I have a 2014 Accord 2.4 Earthdreams engine and oil was always changed at 15% remaining on the Maintenance-Minder...mileage was usually in the high 8000's at 15% life remaining. It gradually consumed a bit of oil as it hit 100,000 miles....about a quart every 5000 miles, maybe a little less, even after replacing the PCV valve. Then I switched to HPL 0w20, and after a complete nearly 9000 mile interval, the consumption has dropped to "insignificant". Perhaps I had some ring buildup? Perhaps this was resolved by running an oil with greater cleaning abilities than the Pennzoil Platinum and occasional Mobil 1 0w20's. Now at 131,000 miles, it's purring along without having to add oil between OCI's....HPL was the only change made. MPG stayed the same throughout it's lifetime...lower 30's...with a couple of variants associated with more city or more highway as would be expected.

 

[Patman]

I’ve replaced a whole lot of Honda engines ruined from extended oil changes. I’ve seen customers bring me oil analysis showing the oil is good to 10,000 miles but the engine shows differently at 90,000 miles when drinking more oil than someone who ran a 5k

Then my Civic must be magic. I’m at 150,000 miles and it consumes only a half quart every 10k. Oil changes every 9-10k.

 

[buster]

I wish people would understand this. These extended oil changes are causing issues around 90,000. People that change oil at 5,000 have no issues. They don’t substance the severe service category which 99% of drivers fall under. Nobody falls under normal usage. I’ve seen it too much at every manufacturer dealer I’ve worked at.

It would be great to know what the causes are. What tier synthetic was being used, engine type etc. It does seem to me that some GDI engines have really made it difficult to go very far on oil changes.

 

[ltslimjim]

Great point, but I believe the 1 year limitation has more to do with short trips, potential idling in traffic, etc than the oil going bad in a year just sitting in the pan.

My scenario is fairly unique since I have several vehicles I regularly drive and I pretty much only drive on longer highway trips with very minimal idling, traffic, short trips, etc, so I'm not overly concerned about time for my application.

I wasn't concerned about the TBN because I don't have any plans of doing extended OCIs, so I just assumed that it would be okay for up to the perhaps 5-6K highway miles I'd actually run it for since Amsoil SS was intended as an extended drain oil, but without testing, there's no way to know for sure.

I see. So, you just like running Amsoil regardless I take it?

 

[ltslimjim]

I have a 2014 Accord 2.4 Earthdreams engine and oil was always changed at 15% remaining on the Maintenance-Minder...mileage was usually in the high 8000's at 15% life remaining. It gradually consumed a bit of oil as it hit 100,000 miles....about a quart every 5000 miles, maybe a little less, even after replacing the PCV valve. Then I switched to HPL 0w20, and after a complete nearly 9000 mile interval, the consumption has dropped to "insignificant". Perhaps I had some ring buildup? Perhaps this was resolved by running an oil with greater cleaning abilities than the Pennzoil Platinum and occasional Mobil 1 0w20's. Now at 131,000 miles, it's purring along without having to add oil between OCI's....HPL was the only change made. MPG stayed the same throughout it's lifetime...lower 30's...with a couple of variants associated with more city or more highway as would be expected.

Then my Civic must be magic. I’m at 150,000 miles and it consumes only a half quart every 10k. Oil changes every 9-10k.

It would be great to know what the causes are. What tier synthetic was being used, engine type etc. It does seem to me that some GDI engines have really made it difficult to go very far on oil changes.

I’ve replaced a whole lot of Honda engines ruined from extended oil changes. I’ve seen customers bring me oil analysis showing the oil is good to 10,000 miles but the engine shows differently at 90,000 miles when drinking more oil than someone who ran a 5k

I would definitely wager this is where the “running clean” ability of an oil is of greater importance. Dave from HPL has said many times that is one distinct advantage to running their oils.

Combine an entry level synthetic, extended OCI and a Honda GDI or worse yet TGDI and no wonder mechanics are seeing this.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

Very curious if most of those engines wore out prematurely because owners were not routinely checking oil levels.

If they were burning oil and never checked the level, they would consume even more oil and need a new engine soon if they never checked the level.

My Honda FIT burns more oil than the sump capacity holds ( 3.5 quarts ) during the coarse of a normal oil drain ( based on the Honda maintenance minder oil life system ) interval ( 10,000 - 12,000 miles ).

If I never checked the oil level, it would have needed a new engine by now.

 

[ltslimjim]

Very curious if most of those engines wore out prematurely because owners were not routinely checking oil levels.

If they were burning oil and never checked the level, they would consume even more oil and need a new engine soon if they never checked the level.

My Honda FIT burns more oil than the sump capacity holds ( 3.5 quarts ) during the coarse of a normal oil drain ( based on the Honda maintenance minder oil life system ) interval ( 10,000 - 12,000 miles ).

If I never checked the oil level, it would have needed a new engine by now.

That certainly seems to be partly the case with the Hyundai engines failing from bad oil control rings, iirc. Level gets too low, engine grenades?

How many total miles on your Fit?

I’m at 329k on an 07 and it uses about 1 Quart per 4k miles. PCV system seems to be working fine and there is a slow rear main seal leak.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

That certainly seems to be partly the case with the Hyundai engines failing from bad oil control rings, iirc. Level gets too low, engine grenades?

How many total miles on your Fit?

I’m at 329k on an 07 and it uses about 1 Quart per 4k miles. PCV system seems to be working fine and there is a slow rear main seal leak.

I was at the Honda dealer today ( service manager is a friend of mine ) getting a new AC compressor installed on another Honda and we talked about oil consumption in Honda's.

He said they see lots of ( mostly CRV's ) cars with very low oil levels that come in for service.

I honestly cannot recall the last last I ever saw someone checking their oil levels ( lived 20 years in a Condo and NEVER saw any owners, ever, checking oil levels in the parking lot ).

Honda says 1 quart every 2500 miles is acceptable.

I disagree.

 

[Just a civilian pilot]

That certainly seems to be partly the case with the Hyundai engines failing from bad oil control rings, iirc. Level gets too low, engine grenades?

How many total miles on your Fit?

I’m at 329k on an 07 and it uses about 1 Quart per 4k miles. PCV system seems to be working fine and there is a slow rear main seal leak.

Fit has 155, 000 Miles ( I own a Civic with over 300K and its doesn't burn any oil ...I never add oil )

Its had Amsoil 99% of its life ( HPL PP0w40 in now for fun ).

 

[Vorlauf]

I’ve replaced a whole lot of Honda engines ruined from extended oil changes. I’ve seen customers bring me oil analysis showing the oil is good to 10,000 miles but the engine shows differently at 90,000 miles when drinking more oil than someone who ran a 5k

I wasn't planning on taking my HPL oci's past 10k, & have no problem dumping it earlier if it starts to look dirty.

 

[Fahrvergnügen]

I wasn't planning on taking my HPL oci's past 10k, & have no problem dumping it earlier if it starts to look dirty.

Just curious as to why pay that premium when you can get Mobil 1 esp 5w30 for 37.00 5 quart jug?

 

[Son_of_shots]

I wasn't planning on taking my HPL oci's past 10k, & have no problem dumping it earlier if it starts to look dirty.

HPL says their oils are good for 35k miles, but their customers don't have the guts to go that long. "Dirty" oil just means that the oil is doing its job suspending carbon. The oil is fine until TBN doesn't make spec. Hopefully you used a Mobil 1 or Fram Endurance oil filter.

 

[Avery4]

The oil is fine until TBN doesn't make spec

You sure about that? Last time I checked, fuel dilution, insolubles, wear metals, soot, silicon, oxidization, nitration, viscosity, etc mattered too.

 

[Vorlauf]

Just curious as to why pay that premium when you can get Mobil 1 esp 5w30 for 37.00 5 quart jug?

If I run the HPL to 10k it's cheaper than two 5k runs with Mobil1.

 

[Vorlauf]

HPL says their oils are good for 35k miles, but their customers don't have the guts to go that long. "Dirty" oil just means that the oil is doing its job suspending carbon. The oil is fine until TBN doesn't make spec. Hopefully you used a Mobil 1 or Fram Endurance oil filter.

This is entertaining

 

[Vorlauf]

If I run the HPL to 10k it's cheaper than two 5k runs with Mobil1. View attachment 226867

Forgot that I also had an adjustment made to my order for $25 flat rate shipping, not the $46.69. So it was even cheaper.