2 Valvoline Restore & Protect tests

[Son_of_shots]

Word

Not talking about oil cooling, Newton's law doesn't apply. Did you take engineering thermo? Repeat, it's hot out, the engine is hotter, the oil is almost at engine temp. Since engine oil is not alive, it doesnt matter that it's hot out. You can safely use the factory spec viscosity. Most cars take 0w20 at the moment. "Thicker oil" only hurts lubrication. Word? Everybody knows which properties Blackstone labs uses to tell you the oil was run too much. Nothing mechanical is in the Bible

 

[mr_boring]

Not talking about oil cooling, Newton's law doesn't apply. Did you take engineering thermo? Repeat, it's hot out, the engine is hotter, the oil is almost at engine temp. Since engine oil is not alive, it doesnt matter that it's hot out. You can safely use the factory spec viscosity. Most cars take 0w20 at the moment. "Thicker oil" only hurts lubrication. Word? Everybody knows which properties Blackstone labs uses to tell you the oil was run too much. Nothing mechanical is in the Bible

What in the wide wide world of sports is a going on here?

So TBN is the only thing that matters, per you.

Avery4 listed a few other things that matter, per him.

But oil cooling, that was definitely the gist of the conversation.

And sure it is. There are distinct instructions for building this doohicky that carried the slabs o' rock Moses carried down the mountain. That is mechanical. And in the Old Testament. The Old Testament is in the Bible.

But I jest, I jest, you are most certainly an exshpert, so thank you for that valuable lesson.

 

[Glenda W.]

Not talking about oil cooling, Newton's law doesn't apply. Did you take engineering thermo? Repeat, it's hot out, the engine is hotter, the oil is almost at engine temp. Since engine oil is not alive, it doesnt matter that it's hot out. You can safely use the factory spec viscosity. Most cars take 0w20 at the moment. "Thicker oil" only hurts lubrication. Word? Everybody knows which properties Blackstone labs uses to tell you the oil was run too much. Nothing mechanical is in the Bible

You have ambient temperature confused with humidity. Humidity doesn’t affect engine temperature. But when the ambient temperature is higher the differential is less causing less efficient cooling along with higher oil temps. My factory oil temp gauge does show this on hotter days.

 

[Avery4]

You have ambient temperature confused with humidity. Humidity doesn’t affect engine temperature. But when the ambient temperature is higher the differential is less causing less efficient cooling along with higher oil temps. My factory oil temp gauge does show this on hotter days.

That would be very dependent on the engine and cooling system design as well as operating conditions. Some engines (especially those with dedicated oil coolers) control their oil temps very well, others not so much.

Operating conditions would be a big variable too. In extremely high load and ambient temp conditions that overload the cooling system and result in coolant temps significantly above the thermostat's setpoint, measurably higher oil temps are almost guaranteed. The reverse is also true if the loads and ambient temps are so low that the coolant never warms up fully.

Less efficient cooling of the radiator at high ambient temperatures may not mean higher engine temperatures, it may just mean that the thermostat opens more and/or the fan runs more to keep temps within a normal range.

 

[Glenda W.]

That would be very dependent on the engine and cooling system design as well as operating conditions. Some engines (especially those with dedicated oil coolers) control their oil temps very well, others not so much.

Operating conditions would be a big variable too. In extremely high load and ambient temp conditions that overload the cooling system and result in coolant temps significantly above the thermostat's setpoint, measurably higher oil temps are almost guaranteed. The reverse is also true if the loads and ambient temps are so low that the coolant never warms up fully.

Less efficient cooling of the radiator at high ambient temperatures may not mean higher engine temperatures, it may just mean that the thermostat opens more and/or the fan runs more to keep temps within a normal range.

I agree 100%. My point was that ambient temperature does have an affect(on thermostat or temp if radiator can’t keep up.) Humidity does not.

 

[PBR]

Good grief people! The OP started a thread to document his/her test and experiment with VR&P. I really don't think he/she was asking the community "which oil cleans the best". Perhaps the "which oil cleans the best" question should be its own stand alone thread. And perhaps this thread already exists; I don't know.

OP- as an owner of one old vehicle in my family of vehicles, thank you for starting this thread and I look forward to your findings. This oil is new and while it looks promising, only tests/experiments such as you are doing will tell if this is just marketing hype or a product that actually does as advertised. Carry on!

 

[ltslimjim]

Good grief people! The OP started a thread to document his/her test and experiment with VR&P. I really don't think he/she was asking the community "which oil cleans the best". Perhaps the "which oil cleans the best" question should be its own stand alone thread. And perhaps this thread already exists; I don't know.

OP- as an owner of one old vehicle in my family of vehicles, thank you for starting this thread and I look forward to your findings. This oil is new and while it looks promising, only tests/experiments such as you are doing will tell if this is just marketing hype or a product that actually does as advertised. Carry on!

 

[Jetronic]

Great points. Like I said in another post, these engines also seem somewhat prone to oil sludge by design judging by how many develop cold lifter tick over time. Hopefully modern synthetic oil, frequent oil changes, plenty of long trips, and a clean PCV valve prevents this from happening again once it's cleaned up.

Mechanically it still seems very healthy judging by the fact that it has 180-185 PSI on all cylinders, doesn't seem to burn any oil, runs and sounds great once warmed up, and has very minimal wear on the one rod bearing I checked while I had the oil pan off, so I don't think it's at much risk of dying any time soon.
View attachment 226163

I would expect the worst wear on the other half of the bearing, the one that bears the combustion load.

 

[Avery4]

I would expect the worst wear on the other half of the bearing, the one that bears the combustion load.

Great point. I unfortunately don't have a picture of it, but the upper half looked great too, not much different than the bottom half. I didn't take it out, but I turned the crank so I could see it.

I have seen engines where the bottom half looked totally fine and the upper half was severely worn though, so you have to be careful assuming that the bearings are okay just by the bottom half.

Considering the fact that the engine runs so quietly that I thought it died out several times while standing right next to the car, I don't expect to find any worn bearings or other issues when I tear the engine down.

 

[roninsoldier83]

I have nothing to add, except: OP- thank you for doing this test and agreeing to post the results for science! Subscribed!

 

[Brian123]

I have nothing to add, except: OP- thank you for doing this test and agreeing to post the results for science! Subscribed!

Exactly, we have a member who is going to show some Valvetrain Pics, after so many miles of using this Valvoline Restore and Protect, let's be happy!

 

[Avery4]

No real updates on the Acura yet, I put several hundred miles on it and all seems well so far. The lifters seem less noisy on startup, but that's very likely simply because this oil is thinner than the previous fill and flows faster.

I did notice something about the R&P that may not be ideal though- the underside of the oil cap and parts of the valvetrain seems to be almost completely dry after sitting unused for a few days. Hard to see on the pictures, but I can't see or feel much of an oil film on the aluminum piece above the valvetrain or on the underside of the oil cap. I don't ever remember an engine looking dry inside when using other oils.

 

[Avery4]

The second test on my friend's oil burner 2010 CR-V has just begun this afternoon at 227K miles. The current rate of consumption is about a quart per 1K miles, so we'll see if that decreases.

There aren't going to be any before and after pictures for this one because we already had the valve cover off to do a valve adjustment last year and there's not much to see. No actual sludging, just the normal gold color.

I cut open the old filter from the previous fill (Mobil 1 EP HM 5W-30 plus whatever random oil he topped it off with for 6K miles) as a control and there was nothing to see there either. No glitter or significant carbon or sludge buildup, just a few little chunks of carbon that wouldn't have shown up well anyways. If there's anything to see next oil change, I'll definitely post a picture.

I'll try to make sure he only tops it off with R&P and I'll try to get him to change it again at 4K miles or so to maximize the chances of success, but I can't guarantee either will actually happen LOL.

Just to be 100% clear, we do not know for a fact that clogged oil control rings and drainback holes are to blame, that's just our theory considering the relatively poor maintenance and the tendency for that to happen to the K series if not maintained well. If something is worn or damaged, we all know that no oil is going to fix that.

 

[Stumpy]

FWIW, every car in my fleet(06 Lexus RX350, 2009 Mazda CX-9, 2010 ScionXD and 2005 Honda CR-V) all use half as much or less motor oil when I feed them 15w-40 compared to what the filler cap says. My engines are clean as they come. No VVT issues either. I think a lot of these famous gummed up engine photo's we see are of cars that were highly neglected and/or abused. I suspect many of them were feed NON-DETERGENT motor oil or never had an oil change for 30K miles or more.

 

[Triple_Se7en]

do you know exactly where HPL's profits go? do you have access to their financial records?, do you know where the profits go from the base oil they purchase?, no you don't. But what both of us do know is that both Valvoline and HPL support American workers.

I never spoke in any regards to / about HPL profits. Only the manufacturer of Valvoline PCMO Motor Oil.
I used Valvoline for the past handful of years. Used Pennzoil for a dozen prior to that. I've moved-on to more expensive boutiques, only because my wife has piles of money on her side of the family. She gives me a couple dollars to spend once in a while.

Yes Honey, I'll do the dishes for you. Need to purchase a new Whirlpool portable dishwasher. I got 20 years out of the first. Then another 20 from the 2nd.

 

[Furious]

I never spoke in any regards to / about HPL profits. Only the manufacturer of Valvoline PCMO Motor Oil.
I used Valvoline for the past handful of years. Used Pennzoil for a dozen prior to that. I've moved-on to more expensive boutiques, only because my wife has piles of money on her side of the family. She gives me a couple dollars to spend once in a while.

Yes Honey, I'll do the dishes for you.

This proves my point in regards to profits you focus on Valvoline but you have no idea where HPL's profits go but support them no problem.

 

[anndel01]

I completely understand and respect that, I was speaking from a practical perspective of keeping the engine running for as long as possible while keeping cost and complexity to a minimum, not a hobbyist perspective of trying to stretch the last mile out of their very high end oil.

I agree that modern oils are amazingly good, but that still doesn't address the undisputable fact that the oil is going to become contaminated with carbon, soot, dust from the air, wear particles too small to be removed by standard filters, etc. The best oil in the world doesn't do much good if it's full of abrasive particles.

Of course the intended usage is a critical variable too. If the goal is to keep something for 50-100K miles and then get something else like many fleets do, maintenance isn't nearly as important as if you plan to keep something for decades.

Here's the valvetrain of a 28 year old 357K mile Civic engine. It was owned by a Honda tech since new until he passed away a couple years ago and he changed the oil every 4K miles. Many would call that wasteful, but when it runs as good as new, burns no significant amount of oil, and is that clean this many years and miles later, was it really wasteful? Do you think the engine would still be in that condition if he tried to experiment with 10K+ mile oil changes?
View attachment 226747

That looks amazingly clean for the age and mileage but that goes to show frequent OCI is the key. Thanks for the thread.

 

[thetricky]

FWIW, every car in my fleet(06 Lexus RX350, 2009 Mazda CX-9, 2010 ScionXD and 2005 Honda CR-V) all use half as much or less motor oil when I feed them 15w-40 compared to what the filler cap says. My engines are clean as they come. No VVT issues either. I think a lot of these famous gummed up engine photo's we see are of cars that were highly neglected and/or abused. I suspect many of them were feed NON-DETERGENT motor oil or never had an oil change for 30K miles or more.

I second that for sure. My dad just bought an early 2000’s rx300 Lexus with a blown motor. Sellers kid didn’t ever check oil, dead motor at 110k. Sludge in the motor was nuts once we pulled it out and apart. Neglect is all too common.

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

Not to turn this into an OCI thread, but unless you have a bypass filter, HPL is still going to get contaminated at the same rate as anything else. An oil that holds up great doesn't do you much good if it's not kept clean enough to be usable.

There were 14.4k miles on this HPL and exactly 22,000 miles on the Fram Endurance FE10575 when this sample was taken. The filter was doing just fine.

Just as with oil, don’t buy the cheapest filters and you don’t get bad results…

'19 F-150 3.5EB, 14.4k HPL No VII Euro 5w30

1st time running the No VII Euro, so I figured I'd take an in-service sample from the Stahlbus valve I installed at last oil change. How convenient! Going to roll these out to all my other vehicles even though it's essentially $50/per. Anyways, back to the sample. Looks like just under 2ppm...

bobistheoilguy.com

 

[SubieRubyRoo]

I agree with the approach. I just wanted to point out even Amsoil will say “OR 1 Year” on the severe service intervals for their SS. It is definitely worth a word of caution. Could you imagine going 2 years without seeing the TBN either? Just blindly going by miles without considering the time isn’t wise. Definitely interested in what the current fill looks like in a new report.

I went 14.4k miles without checking anything but catch can trappings and dipstick level over about 10 months running E30 (which is known to be hard on TBN). Still had 7.78TBN remaining! This would probably have made it to 25k if I really wanted to but I had a case full of SuperCar 0w30 burning a hole in my drain plug…