Toyota Oil Sludge Prevention

TooSlick · May 13, 2003

RussellA,

I have five local customers running the Amsoil Series 2000, 0w-30 in this engine. I have been recommending 7k-8k change intervals and have seen no problems, even with high mileage engines. One 1999 Avalon has 150k+ miles and is doing very well. Oil analysis shows a decent margin of safety remaining after 7.5k miles. Under ideal conditions I think that 10k drain intervals are possible. I recently sold some 0w-30 for a new Avalon with the latest version of this V-6 engine and plan to test that one as well after 7500 miles. I understand Toyota has made some design changes to this motor to reduce the sludging issues.

I'd recommend sticking with the 0w-30 ...it holds up a bit better in terms of oxidation/nitration and provides the best fuel efficiency, as you have noted in your car.

This engine beats up any oil but the Series 2000 seems to do pretty well here. If you are bound and determined to only run 5000 mile changes, the regular Amsoil 5w-30 or 10w-30 will do fine as well. If you have any further questions, please feel free to contact me off-line.

TooSlick
Dixie Synthetics

Patman · May 13, 2003

The first thing anyone with a Toyota Sludge Monkey engine needs to do is put on a dual remote oil filter setup so they can get an extra quart or two of oil capacity. This will reduce the stress on the oil considerably.

kiko · May 13, 2003

quote:

Just use something otehr than the weak 5w-30's recommended by Toyota

So Toyota oil is no good even though they recommend that they do the oil changes themselves? Considering I need to have the dealer do the oil change to keep up with the warranty ('04 Sienna), how about if I put in a 3 oz. dose of auto-rx after they change the oil and filter and run with it for about 500 miles after which I will then change the oil to my preferred brand and the filter to a toyota filter? At least in the dealer's books they did the oil change and in my own book I know what type of oil is in the crankcase.

quote:

The first thing anyone with a Toyota Sludge Monkey engine needs to do is put on a dual remote oil filter setup so they can get an extra quart or two of oil capacity. This will reduce the stress on the oil considerably

Patman, please elaborate further on this. Thanks.

Terry · May 13, 2003

Kiko, good plan as Auto-RX will be almost non detectable and will help clean. I would do a 12 ounce cleaning periodically say every 10,000 to 15,000 miles in addition to the 3 oz maint dosage.

Patman · May 13, 2003

Kiko, anytime you have a smaller oil capacity, you're putting a lot more stress on the oil. This is one of the reasons why many European cars can handle longer drain intervals, it's because of their large oil capacity.

So if you take an engine that has a 4qt capacity and you put a dual remote filter setup on it, and increase capacity to 6 qts, the higher amount of oil means it won't get as hot under stress.

RussellA · May 13, 2003

TooSlick, you've convinced me to stay with 0w-30. I'll do analysis at 5k and decide there if I can move back to 7.5k.

My concern is based on anecdotal information from message boards, it seems the sludge problem in these cars is not a constant and therefore predictable phenomenon. It seems these engines are prone to sludging, probably due to both the high oil sheering from the cam gears and made worse by the higher head temps from smaller cooling passages after 97 to meet EPA. However people seem to be fine until one day they have smoke. I think SOMETHING is happening. Perhaps high amounts of condensation from short trips/driving patterns and weather conditions, or clogging of the PCV. Once that SOMETHING happens these engine seem to sludge quick. My concern is that 7.5k will be fine for years, but sometime, one time down the road that SOMETHING happens and makes the oil die prematurely.

kiko · May 13, 2003

quote:

So if you take an engine that has a 4qt capacity and you put a dual remote filter setup on it, and increase capacity to 6 qts, the higher amount of oil means it won't get as hot under stress.

Patman,

How do I do this? Please tell me the basics. Thanks.

G-MAN · May 13, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by palmerwmd:
Just use something otehr than the weak 5w-30's recommended by Toyota.
You can prevent your sludging one of 2 ways
Thicker oils are less likely to sludge, so you can use something thikcer like a 10w-40 from a good brand.

Actually, a 10w40 would be more likely to shear down and cause sludge than a 5w30 or 10w30.

In these Toyota engines that are prone to chew up oil, I'd always use a syn and change it around 5k.

Jimbo · May 14, 2003

97,000 sludge-free miles on my dad's '99 Camry V-6. It has had Pennzoil 10W-30 at the dealer and Chevron Supreme 10W-30 at a quick lube place. Change intervals are 4-5,000 miles. Note that even the dealer here uses 10W-30.

I wonder if the sludge problem is mainly in colder climate areas. His car never sees anything below 40F.

kiko · May 14, 2003

Jimbo,

May I ask where you live? If you're anywhere close to me then it might be worth it to take my car to your dealer. Thanks.

Jimbo · May 14, 2003

He usually takes it to Torrance Toyota on Pacific Coast Highway.

Schuey2002 · May 14, 2003

One more Toyota question; Is the 2.7 liter (3RZ-FE) a " Sludge Monster " ?

TooSlick · May 14, 2003

Schuey,

The affected engines I know of are the 3.0L V-6 used in the 1999-2001 Camry/Avalon/Sienna/Lexus ES-300 models and the 2.0L, four cylinder engine using in Camry's of these same model years. From what I've seen the other Toyota engines are fine.

TooSlick

Schuey2002 · May 14, 2003

Thanks for the headsup, TooSlick.

Whew!! That's a relief.

Patman · May 14, 2003

So what has Toyota done in the newest version of this engine to prevent it from being a sludge monkey?

2533a · May 14, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by TooSlick:
Schuey,

The affected engines I know of are the 3.0L V-6 used in the 1999-2001 Camry/Avalon/Sienna/Lexus ES-300 models and the 2.0L, four cylinder engine using in Camry's of these same model years. From what I've seen the other Toyota engines are fine.

TooSlick

The 4 cylinder engine used in the model years referred to above is 2.2 liters in displacement (the 5S-FE). The last year the Camry had a 2.0L 4 cylinder engine was 1991 (the 3S-FE). Just wanted to clarify as there is a thundering herd of around eighteen more horses in the 5S-FE!

kiko · May 15, 2003

Patman,

My '04 Sienna has a bigger engine (3.3L) but other than that I don't know what other improvements Toyota has made on the "sludge monsters". I'm hoping it's been fixed as I would hate to have a sludge monster and still have to be paying for the car. That's why the auto-rx maintenance dose has already been dumped in the engine (3 oz.) and the vehicle will be taken to the dealer to keep up with any warranty issues. Keeping my fingers crossed!

RussellA · May 15, 2003

Supposedly Toyota modified the PCV system and the valve covers (different baffles) in mid 2002 on the v6 3.0. This of course would not address the cam gears shearing or the high head temps.

Patman · May 15, 2003

Another modification I think that would help these cars out a lot would be to put in a 180 or even a 160 degree thermostat. I'm not sure if anyone would make one for this engine though. But if they did, the cooler operating temps could help out a lot.

G-MAN · May 16, 2003

quote:

Originally posted by Patman:
Another modification I think that would help these cars out a lot would be to put in a 180 or even a 160 degree thermostat. I'm not sure if anyone would make one for this engine though. But if they did, the cooler operating temps could help out a lot.

If this engine has a high operating temp from internal design flaws, chances are putting a lower temp thermostat in it would only DELAY the engine reaching its operating temp, not lower it.

Toyota Oil Sludge Prevention

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