Toyota Crown takes 0w8 oil

[UG_Passat]

What are high speeds? That is in the eye of beholder.
The way lately Toyota does things, they will be buying more BMW engines and whole vehicles.

BMW using Toyota Fuel Cell technology.... so BMW might as well add a "Powered by Toyota" sticker on the Hybrid Fuell Cell vehicles.

 

[UG_Passat]

2023 Toyota Camry A25A-FXS, A25B-FXS, from German manual:

"In Ihrem Toyota-Fahrzeug wird “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” «Original Toyota-Motoröl» verwendet. Toyota empfiehlt den Gebrauch von zugelassenem “Toyota Genuine Motor Oil” «Original Toyota-Motoröl». Wenn es die entsprechenden Qualitätsansprüche erfüllt, kann auch anderes Motoröl verwendet werden. Ölqualität: 0W-16: API-Klasse SN “Resource-Conserving”, SN PLUS “Resource-Conserving” oder SP “Resource-Conserving”; oder ILSAC GF-6B-Mehrbereichsmotoröl 0W-20 und 5W-30: API-Klasse SM “Energy-Conserving”, SN “Resource-Conserving”, SN PLUS “Resource-Conserving” oder SP “Resource-Conserving”; oder ILSAC GF-6A-Mehrbereichsmotoröl."

Google translation (I did not retain too much from High school when I had German as a foreign language):

"Toyota Genuine Motor Oil" is used in your Toyota vehicle. Toyota recommends the use of approved Toyota Genuine Motor Oil. If it meets the relevant quality requirements, other engine oil can also be used. Oil quality: 0W-16: API class SN “Resource-Conserving”, SN PLUS “Resource-Conserving” or SP “Resource-Conserving”; or ILSAC GF-6B Multigrade Motor Oil 0W-20 and 5W-30: API Class SM “Energy-Conserving”, SN “Resource-Conserving”, SN PLUS “Resource-Conserving” or SP “Resource-Conserving”; or ILSAC GF-6A Multigrade Motor Oil."

Here's the picture from the German manual

You only included the part that is relevant to your position. But not the full excerpt from the manual.

Cliff notes. Use 0w-16. If 0w-16 is not available, 0w-20 can be used, until the next oil change and 0w-16 must be used.

 

[edyvw]

BMW using Toyota Fuel Cell technology.... so BMW might as well add a "Powered by Toyota" sticker on the Hybrid Fuell Cell vehicles.

Where can I buy that? Same like Supra? Just go into dealership?

 

[edyvw]

Here's the picture from the German manual
View attachment 145316

View attachment 145317

You only included the part that is relevant to your position. But not the full excerpt from the manual.

Cliff notes. Use 0w-16. If 0w-16 is not available, 0w-20 can be used, until the next oil change and 0w-16 must be used.

Nope. It says 5W30 too. You missed one. Also, it CLEARLY says that 5W30 can be used if it meets quality requirements. It doesn’t say that one can use it if that is only oil available.
I posted later Australian manual which has same language.
Basically what manual says is that one can use 5W30 or in Australian case, 10W30 OR HIGHER GRADE.

Case closed! Unless you have different part numbers, based on engine codes, those are all same engines.

If US version has different oil pump or ECU settings that STRICTLY requires 0W8 or 16, and NOTHING else, again, they are front runners for “what they were thinking award.”

 

[edyvw]

Since with higher viscosity oil comes with higher oil pressure relative to the thin oils, the ECU will be fooled, and limit oil flow thus volume, so that you are overly reliant on the thicker oil film, due to limiting flow, will not control the heat dissipation of the engine also, so now, your extreme use test becomes even more extreme.

I'll take the full flow of thinner oil lubricating and cooling the engine instead.

On a side note, but still applies... over in the European/Imports Oil forum, whenever their is a BMW oil question, all of the BITOG experts say use the appropriate BMW spec oil, since BMW knows best and their oil specification/certification will protect the engine, without question. But..... when there is a particular B58TU2, specifies LL-22FE++, which happens to be 0w-12, all the sudden the people that didn't question BMW engineers and their spec, now say BMW LL-22FE++ 0w-12 specification is inadequate and go with a thicker spec oil. They trusted BMW's engineers until they broke with BITOG experts' "engineering experience designing and testing BMW engines"

No they don’t.
No one said LL22++ should be used.
BMW still uses LL04 in those engines and leaves that or LL01FE as an option. It seems BMW doesn’t think engines will disintegrate if 5W30 is used.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Since with higher viscosity oil comes with higher oil pressure relative to the thin oils, the ECU will be fooled, and limit oil flow thus volume, so that you are overly reliant on the thicker oil film, due to limiting flow, will not control the heat dissipation of the engine also, so now, your extreme use test becomes even more extreme.

I'll take the full flow of thinner oil lubricating and cooling the engine instead.

Guess those Camrys in Austraila with an ECU controlled oil pump that "prefer" 0W-16 are going to self destruct with 10W-30 (post 159), lol. Why would Toyota even show any viscosity option if the ECU controlled pump and engine was so sensitive to viscosity?

The oil temperature rise in a journal bearing isn't effected much by the oil viscosity. As the viscosity decreases, so doest the MOFT in the bearing, which increases the shear rate. So a thinner oil with with a higher shear rate (due to less MOFT) is about the same as shearing a thicker oil layer (with more MOFT) at lower shear rate. A real good understanding of journal bearing operational physics is needed to understand all the variables.

If high performance engine makers thought thinner oil was better than thicker, they wouldn't say to use a thicker oil for more extreme use. The little extra heating in the bearing by thicker oil is over-ridden by the increase in MOFT with better HTHS viscosiy, which is the key to better bearing protection. I have some info somewhere showing the viscosity effect on bearing temps, will have to dig it up later. The oil temperature in the journal bearings is a much stronger function of bearing clearance and RPM compared to viscosity. All these modern engines have a coolant-to-oil cooler to help control oil sump temperature. But the temperature rise in the running bearing and the resulting running viscosiy and MOFT/HTHS is what's ultimately important.

 

[edyvw]

Guess those Camrys in Austraila with an ECU controlled oil pump that "prefer" 0W-16 are going to self destruct with 10W-30 (post 159), lol. Why would Toyota even show any viscosity option if the ECU controlled pump and engine was so sensitive to viscosity?

The oil temperature rise in a journal bearing isn't effected much by the oil viscosity. As the viscosity decreases, so doest the MOFT in the bearing, which increases the shear rate. So a thinner oil with with a higher shear rate (due to less MOFT) is about the same as shearing a thicker oil layer (with more MOFT) at lower shear rate. A real good understanding of journal bearing operational physics is needed to understand all the variables.

If high performance engine makers thought thinner oil was better than thicker, they wouldn't say to use a thicker oil for more extreme use. The little extra heating in the bearing by thicker oil is over-ridden by the increase in MOFT with better HTHS viscosiy, which is the key to better bearing protection. I have some info somewhere showing the viscosity effect on bearing temps, will have to dig it up later. The oil temperature in the journal bearings is a much stronger function of bearing clearance and RPM compared to viscosity. All these modern engines have a coolant-to-oil cooler to help control oil sump temperature. But the temperature rise in the running bearing is what's ultimately important.

Nah US gets special oil pump and ECU setting.
Then Bill from down the street goes to his mechanic, and mechanic says: “Bill, I have been using Lucas Oil 10W30 all my life, trust me that is going to make it 500k.”
Bill’s Toyota explodes. We miss Bill.

 

[Snagglefoot]

Bevorzugt,

 

[ZeeOSix]

If there's an actual difference between oil pumps and/or the ECU programing for the pump control profile, then Toyota's service manuals and/or other Toyota technical documents would show those diffetences. Until someone posts up official Toyota documentation or pump part number differences, I'll go with there are no differences between the oiling system in engines used in different countries.

 

[DirectRejection]

Australia...10W30 SL.
Germany...5W30 SM.
Qatar...15W40.

I am pleased that higher levels of Zinc and Phosphorus are acceptable in motor oil design here.

 

[ZeeOSix]

Here's the picture from the German manual.

Cliff notes. Use 0w-16. If 0w-16 is not available, 0w-20 can be used, until the next oil change and 0w-16 must be used.

Upper RH corner of the first page. Cliff notes incomplete. And if it's OK to run a thicker oil for a whole 10K+ OCI, it's OK to always run it.

 

[kschachn]

That's not the US spec oil pump.

Another phantom fear with no validity.

 

[kschachn]

Since with higher viscosity oil comes with higher oil pressure relative to the thin oils, the ECU will be fooled, and limit oil flow thus volume, so that you are overly reliant on the thicker oil film, due to limiting flow, will not control the heat dissipation of the engine also, so now, your extreme use test becomes even more extreme.

I'll take the full flow of thinner oil lubricating and cooling the engine instead.

Add this to the list of goal post movement.

 

[OVERKILL]

That's not the US spec oil pump.

That engine specs the Aisin OPT-125 according to RockAuto, which you can find on other sites like Summit as well:
https://www.summitracing.com/parts/asn-opt-125

From what I can find, this is a global part # for this engine.

@ssaaff should call a local parts house and see if the engine in Saudi Arabia calls for the same part #, if it does, well, that bins that theory.

 

[radiometer]

After reading all the posts on this subject I cannot believe Toyota, BMW and other automotive engineers don't understand that MOFT and higher HTHS give more protection than lesser values. I notice that the more knowledgeable posters here understand this and they point out that going thinner and thinner isn't done for technical reasons. I'd love to see a good argument for thinner and thinner oils but that hasn't happened here.

 

[kschachn]

After reading all the posts on this subject I cannot believe Toyota, BMW and other automotive engineers don't understand that MOFT and higher HTHS give more protection than lesser values. I notice that the more knowledgeable posters here understand this and they point out that going thinner and thinner isn't done for technical reasons. I'd love to see a good argument for thinner and thinner oils but that hasn't happened here.

They do understand this. But engineering resources are being directed at designing engines that can tolerate a reduced film thickness and yet still produce acceptable wear under most circumstances. This is where the automaker’s engineering resources are being applied.

However that doesn’t mean the engines are designed in a way that precludes the use of a higher HT/HS oil to reduce wear. Again an engine can have design changes that allow it to tolerate thinner oils but that doesn’t mean it’s all it can use. It certainly does not mean mechanical damage will occur since oils are not always at their operating temperature nor viscosity so you literally would have “piles of failed engines by the roadside” if this were the case. Those notions are imaginary attempts to support some weird agenda that is divorced from reality.

 

[PimTac]

After reading all the posts on this subject I cannot believe Toyota, BMW and other automotive engineers don't understand that MOFT and higher HTHS give more protection than lesser values. I notice that the more knowledgeable posters here understand this and they point out that going thinner and thinner isn't done for technical reasons. I'd love to see a good argument for thinner and thinner oils but that hasn't happened here.

The automotive industry have gone through many changes over the years and decades. The CAFE argument is an old one. I’ll bet most people don’t know that a lot of their new car is glued together or that a lot of the structure of that car is high density styrofoam.

 

[Shel_B]

The automotive industry have gone through many changes over the years and decades. The CAFE argument is an old one. I’ll bet most people don’t know that a lot of their new car is glued together or that a lot of the structure of that car is high density styrofoam.

I am familiar with the gluing as I've seen it (on a BMW, if memory serves me), and I have also seen some composite (plastic) structural components, but high-density styrofoam is new to me. Can you provide some pointers to that information? Thanks!

 

[kschachn]

The automotive industry have gone through many changes over the years and decades. The CAFE argument is an old one. I’ll bet most people don’t know that a lot of their new car is glued together or that a lot of the structure of that car is high density styrofoam.

Yes it is but it's the correct one. CAFE has been around since 1975 and has been a major driver in automobile and engine design since then. It takes up a great deal of automaker time and engineering resources.

 

[kschachn]

I am familiar with the gluing as I've seen it (on a BMW, if memory serves me), and I have also seen some composite (plastic) structural components, but high-density styrofoam is new to me. Can you provide some pointers to that information? Thanks!

It's not Styrofoam. Structural foam is typically urethane or epoxy and adds rigidity and strength without a lot of added weight. But it is not the primary structural element.