Time to Trane.

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas

Just curious, how big is your home and what are your extreme hi and low outdoor temps? Is it slab on grade or all above ground?
2x4 eterior or 2x6?
Just interested in the difference between NC and Utah sizing.


The house is 2500 sqft with a crawl space no slab although allot of the homes in this area are slab. All of the exterior walls are 2x4 and it was the coldest its been in the last 4 years about 1 week ago. It was in the teens

-8C or -9C for the rest of the world. Highs in the 90's are not uncommon in July and August, anything close to 100F is very rare. But loads of hummidty will make even a low 90's day feel just miserable to work in. I've lost 7lbs in about 3-4 hours just cutting the grass etc.


Pretty close to here in Utah, but we do see 100+ degrees about 2-3 weeks in July. We don't experience the humidity you do though.

4 ton of a/c is bare minimum for this area in a house with 2400 sq ft. When we run into homes this large, we usually opt for the larger 5 ton. Too bad they don't make a 4.5 ton, which would be ideal for you.
If your old one is the same size, how did it do on the hot summer days and where do you set your thermostat?
Most people here like it at 72 degrees, and some at 70. A rule of thumb to go off of is, if your t-stat gets it 25 degrees F lower than outdoors it's doing a good job. Other words 75 inside and 100 out is doing good, anything better means you have a good duct system.
I can get my house at 69 degrees when it's 103 outside. I have a 4 ton as well, but my ductwork is sized properly with plenty of supply & return. A .07 static pressure to be exact.

I'd imagine with that much humidity, you'd be sweatin all them pounds off pretty quick.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: bonnie john
3 toys, what is soft solder. i've never heard of it being used in ref/ac

my understanding is that soft solder is a lead alloy which can be melted with an iron or flame, hard solder is a silver alloy rod ("silver solder")using either a fuel flame or oxy/acetylene and welding is, well, welding


Staybrite 8 is the only solder we use, which is sold at Johnstones supply. Yes, it can be melted using a map gas torch.

Staybrite 8 is quite expensive, but has proven itself very well for us. But 250 psi of nitrogen helps to be sure there are no leaks. Good installation practices are a must though, and it's best to take your time cleaning.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Wouldn't 2 filter driers cause a restriction within the system?


Nope, not if the driers are sized correctly. It's done all the time on commercial/industrial stuff, particularly after a burn out.
Smaller suction line driers have schraeder valves built in either end to check for pressure drop.

I found a data sheet on your Harris Stay-Brite and it's a 6% silver soft solder. Not really sure it'd be legal here ??
Most everyone here uses 15% silver brazing alloy (known as brown tip here) although plumbers tend to use 2-3% stuff( yellow tip) and 45% is used for brass and steel to copper, eg. service valve connections.

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
But 250 psi of nitrogen helps to be sure there are no leaks. Good installation practices are a must though, and it's best to take your time cleaning.


A mate of mine always uses 350psi on everything. I nearly blew my suction gauge the first time I checked one of his pipe ups

I never had the heart to tell him most of the systems he was installing and testing had compressors that were tagged "only pressure test to 150psi"

 

[tdi-rick]

Originally Posted By: Crashbox



OTOH, my brother has been an HVAC mechanic since 1972 and he said his dealings in the field and number of callbacks with '410A and its higher head pressures have not been quite as bad as he predicted.


High discharge pressures aren't a problem if the compression ratio (absolute discharge pressure divided by absolute suction pressure) is kept in check as this limits the real killer, discharge temperature.

Ever seen a low temp system on R22 ?
The compressor heads (if a semi-hermetic or open drive) often have the paint burnt off them from excessive discharge temps, yet the discharge pressure itself is what would be considered 'normal' in an AC system.
Too many mechanics here converted R502 systems to R22 when R502 was being phased out, rather than embrace the new refrigerants like R404A (which did take a while to come on-stream) or use efficient drop ins like R408 and lots of compressors were killed prematurely.
I even had one well known compressor rebuilder tell me R22 was an excellent detergent "as the compressors oil coming back to him was black and full of [censored]" he didn't recognise cooked oil when he saw it.
R404A is excellent in low and medium temp with very acceptable discharge temps, and I standardise on it in supermarket installations to rationalise refrigerant.

 

[Cup of Joe]

Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas

Pretty close to here in Utah, but we do see 100+ degrees about 2-3 weeks in July. We don't experience the humidity you do though.


I don't know about that. It's definately allot colder in Utah then NC during the winter. If we do get any snow its lucky to last until lunch. Most snow we have ever had stick around 3 whole days on the ground, patches of snow but it was still a good 3 days. Today is a fridged day for us low is 27 and the high will only be in the mid 40's.

My heat pump does a pretty good job in the summer, no complaints. Its this winter crankiness I have a problem with. If I liked baking in the master the rest house would feel fine. Since the opposite is true it works out great in the summer. I can open a vent or 2 and turn the my bedroom into a refer while the rest of the house is comfortable. I could definately stand to loose 1 vent from the master and add 1 to the opposite end of the house.

In the summer if you just pull the hummidity out of the air any temp is comfortable. Its not Puerto Rico in July hot but I still don't like it. From experience if you go from SLC to San Juan in July you will be sweeting even at midnight.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas

Pretty close to here in Utah, but we do see 100+ degrees about 2-3 weeks in July. We don't experience the humidity you do though.


I don't know about that. It's definately allot colder in Utah then NC during the winter. If we do get any snow its lucky to last until lunch. Most snow we have ever had stick around 3 whole days on the ground, patches of snow but it was still a good 3 days. Today is a fridged day for us low is 27 and the high will only be in the mid 40's.

My heat pump does a pretty good job in the summer, no complaints. Its this winter crankiness I have a problem with. If I liked baking in the master the rest house would feel fine. Since the opposite is true it works out great in the summer. I can open a vent or 2 and turn the my bedroom into a refer while the rest of the house is comfortable. I could definately stand to loose 1 vent from the master and add 1 to the opposite end of the house.

In the summer if you just pull the hummidity out of the air any temp is comfortable. Its not Puerto Rico in July hot but I still don't like it. From experience if you go from SLC to San Juan in July you will be sweeting even at midnight.


I was reffering mainly to the summer time less the humidity. We can get down below zero at night for a while, but i've rarely ever seen more than 5 below.
We've been experiencing a january thaw for a week or so, now almost all the 18" of snow is melted. Finally rained enough to clear the haze out of the air, so we can breathe easier.
Summer nights are very nice hear with little humidity and usually a slight breeze.
About 50% of homes have rooftop swamp coolers here, which put humidity into the homes. Usually too much during August, when the humidity climbs a bit. I feel sorry for these folks when it comes to their inside air quality, which is horrible.
I'd say about 10% or so of homes have NO cooling whatsoever, and haven't for years.

Hopefully they can help you with your situation tomorrow.

Good luck!!

 

[bonnie john]

fittong a liquid line filter/drier is (OR SHOULD BE) standard practice and blockage is roughly checked by cooler shell temp or in extreme cases, frosting

suction filters (usually) have a fitting on the "inlet" side. it's just a matter of measuring the difference or "pressure drop" between the inlet of the suction filter and the service gauge fitting on the lowside service valve

most manufacturers have a pressure drop difference figure or chart which indicates whether a filter is blocked and due for replacement


Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Wouldn't 2 filter driers cause a restriction within the system?

 

[Cup of Joe]

Ok they are using 410a didn't even have to request it and they are going to check my duct work while they are under the house. Only down side for them is its cold and the access is on the wrong end of the house. They have to crawl about 60 ft to where the current lines are run and then another 10 ft to where it is being moved too.

If 10" of snow has melted in Utah watch for mudslides in the canyons. I think it was '83 or '84 when we had the Farmington canyon mudslide. It piled all of our nieghbors homes up in a heap. Now an entire country block is gone, replaced with a basin to theoretically catch whatever comes down the canyon. Our house was on the side of the mountain so we where safe. We did buy my friends house and had a swamp cooler on the roof.

The mudeslide is referenced here May 1983 Rudd creek mudslide.

 

[3Toyotas]

Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Ok they are using 410a didn't even have to request it and they are going to check my duct work while they are under the house. Only down side for them is its cold and the access is on the wrong end of the house. They have to crawl about 60 ft to where the current lines are run and then another 10 ft to where it is being moved too.

If 10" of snow has melted in Utah watch for mudslides in the canyons. I think it was '83 or '84 when we had the Farmington canyon mudslide. It piled all of our nieghbors homes up in a heap. Now an entire country block is gone, replaced with a basin to theoretically catch whatever comes down the canyon. Our house was on the side of the mountain so we where safe. We did buy my friends house and had a swamp cooler on the roof.

The mudeslide is referenced here May 1983 Rudd creek mudslide.


One thing i hate is crawl spaces. IT makes the job that much more difficult. YOu mean to tell me the lines from end to end are 70' in total length? Wow!! If that's the case, that compressor has to work overtime to pump all that refridgerant so far.
Did they strap the lines up good so they're as straight as possible? No drooping lines?
HOw does the unit look outside, and is it quiet? Does it work good?
One thing with 410 unit's is they seem to be much much quieter. At least that's been the case with our Amana unit's anyway.

Didn't get warm enough to melt all the snow; still have a lot in the mountains. Just got dumped on with another few inches last night. Ski resorts got a couple feet or so.
Yeah, back in the early 80's our whole street was sandbagged and the road was a river for a while.

 

[Cup of Joe]

The access door is on the wrong end of the house. All of the electric, water, septic and yes heat pump lines are a good 60ft from the access door, I've had to crawl down there and it sucks bunches. The lines don't have to be run 60+ feet but you do have to crawl the entire length of the house to get to where everything is located. I may take advantage of the economic down turn to have another access installed where my old heat pump used to be so I can reach the water lines etc without that super long crawl.

Everything looks great the unit is huge compared to my old pump and it is working brilliantly. The inner coil is also allot larger then the old unit and the digital thermostat maintains the temp allot better then my old thermostat ever did. The outer unit is about 3-4 feet from the house sitting on a 4 ft high stand larger then a standard pallet and is running whisper quite. I don't know if its due to slowing jobs or just routine but the President of the company was out twice yesterday checking on the job and making sure the wife was happy. He is also the one that came out and gave me the quote last Friday.

I have to say Technicare in Elizabeth City, NC has been doing a bang up job if I can give them a little plug. We are the Jones's on my street or possibly this end of the county so they will be getting more work from my neighbors. I had people I didn't know coming over just wanting to look at my porch when I had that built 2 years ago. I know my immediate neighbor will be getting a Trane once they move down here from PA they just don't know it yet.