Its the XR14 in a 4 ton. He only recommended the XR13 or XR14. I can ask why those 2 and not a pricier model. I'm sure theres a reason I just have no idea what. He didn't try to up sell me at all.
Time to Trane.
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Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Its the XR14 in a 4 ton. He only recommended the XR13 or XR14. I can ask why those 2 and not a pricier model. I'm sure theres a reason I just have no idea what. He didn't try to up sell me at all.
Basically there were 4 to choose from. The xr13 is the bottom of the line, then the xr14, then 14i, then another at the top.
The 14i might be worth a few extra bucks. Depending on how much.
Its the XR14 in a 4 ton. He only recommended the XR13 or XR14. I can ask why those 2 and not a pricier model. I'm sure theres a reason I just have no idea what. He didn't try to up sell me at all.
Basically there were 4 to choose from. The xr13 is the bottom of the line, then the xr14, then 14i, then another at the top.
The 14i might be worth a few extra bucks. Depending on how much.
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Didn't miss my post above yours did you?
I saw it, I've switched to a mini laptop that dislikes my ham fisted typing. They are going to run new lines and wiring ect. including the thermostat. I didn't ask for it, he said they always replace them so they don't have to come back out due to a bad thermostat. I'll have to check on the refrigerant.
I told him I had budgeted to spend more then the quote and he still didn't try to up sell me.
Didn't miss my post above yours did you?
I saw it, I've switched to a mini laptop that dislikes my ham fisted typing. They are going to run new lines and wiring ect. including the thermostat. I didn't ask for it, he said they always replace them so they don't have to come back out due to a bad thermostat. I'll have to check on the refrigerant.
I told him I had budgeted to spend more then the quote and he still didn't try to up sell me.
Originally Posted By: TaterandNoodles
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Didn't miss my post above yours did you?
I saw it, I've switched to a mini laptop that dislikes my ham fisted typing. They are going to run new lines and wiring ect. including the thermostat. I didn't ask for it, he said they always replace them so they don't have to come back out due to a bad thermostat. I'll have to check on the refrigerant.
I told him I had budgeted to spend more then the quote and he still didn't try to up sell me.
Then it would be a good time to go 410 if they're doing that. First i would ask their opinion on it to be sure they're comfortable installing 410 equipment. It is a little trickier to install, as you should evacuate the system twice and the joints must be welded vs. soft solder. R-22 is a little more forgiving on some things, and runs at a lower psi as well. But r22 has clorein in it, and 410a does not. Thus the reason for the 22 phaseout.
Just curious, how big is your home and what are your extreme hi and low outdoor temps? Is it slab on grade or all above ground?
2x4 eterior or 2x6?
Just interested in the difference between NC and Utah sizing.
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Didn't miss my post above yours did you?
I saw it, I've switched to a mini laptop that dislikes my ham fisted typing. They are going to run new lines and wiring ect. including the thermostat. I didn't ask for it, he said they always replace them so they don't have to come back out due to a bad thermostat. I'll have to check on the refrigerant.
I told him I had budgeted to spend more then the quote and he still didn't try to up sell me.
Then it would be a good time to go 410 if they're doing that. First i would ask their opinion on it to be sure they're comfortable installing 410 equipment. It is a little trickier to install, as you should evacuate the system twice and the joints must be welded vs. soft solder. R-22 is a little more forgiving on some things, and runs at a lower psi as well. But r22 has clorein in it, and 410a does not. Thus the reason for the 22 phaseout.
Just curious, how big is your home and what are your extreme hi and low outdoor temps? Is it slab on grade or all above ground?
2x4 eterior or 2x6?
Just interested in the difference between NC and Utah sizing.
in our neck of the woods the R 410a cost no more then R 22 from the Trane company and its aprox $40 more from carrier
if you happen to have the wright J program, you can do a load calc on a house you would work on localy, then change the location to some where else to see what the difference would be.
typically you will find the differences arent much different
typically you will find the differences arent much different
Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
if you happen to have the wright J program, you can do a load calc on a house you would work on localy, then change the location to some where else to see what the difference would be.
typically you will find the differences arent much different
I thought this may be the case, but i was curious what the difference would be if any.
if you happen to have the wright J program, you can do a load calc on a house you would work on localy, then change the location to some where else to see what the difference would be.
typically you will find the differences arent much different
I thought this may be the case, but i was curious what the difference would be if any.
Originally Posted By: duaneb9729
in our neck of the woods the R 410a cost no more then R 22 from the Trane company and its aprox $40 more from carrier
Sounds like it's coming down in price then? Good.
Been a while since i priced it. Usually don't purchase much at all here as most of our work is replacement.
Carrier/bryant is always WAY over priced here.
in our neck of the woods the R 410a cost no more then R 22 from the Trane company and its aprox $40 more from carrier
Sounds like it's coming down in price then? Good.
Been a while since i priced it. Usually don't purchase much at all here as most of our work is replacement.
Carrier/bryant is always WAY over priced here.
re R410, the pressures are a LOT higher than anything seen with R22. Refrigerant piping in 5/8" and above has to be heavier wall and rated as suitable to allow for the higher pressures. (here at any rate)
We've been using R410 here for a couple of years now, and it still surprises me that driers aren't required by the manufacturers as POE oils have to be used.
POE's have been in use in refrigeration since the early nineties and all the manufacturers required the moisture drop and acid capacities of driers doubled to prevent acidification of the POE lube. You hardly ever see a drier used on air conditioning, and it puzzles me.
Good practice during install also mandates dry nitrogen be purged through the lines to prevent copper oxides and scale forming during brazing.
We've been using R410 here for a couple of years now, and it still surprises me that driers aren't required by the manufacturers as POE oils have to be used.
POE's have been in use in refrigeration since the early nineties and all the manufacturers required the moisture drop and acid capacities of driers doubled to prevent acidification of the POE lube. You hardly ever see a drier used on air conditioning, and it puzzles me.
Good practice during install also mandates dry nitrogen be purged through the lines to prevent copper oxides and scale forming during brazing.
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Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
and the joints must be welded vs. soft solder.
Soft solder is used currently ?? Really ??
The only time I've seen soft solder used was on some old SO2 (converted to R12) refrigeration units from the fifties/sixties where the liquid receiver try-cocks and condenser end bends were soft soldered.
and the joints must be welded vs. soft solder.
Soft solder is used currently ?? Really ??
The only time I've seen soft solder used was on some old SO2 (converted to R12) refrigeration units from the fifties/sixties where the liquid receiver try-cocks and condenser end bends were soft soldered.
probably because the cheapskates con you that a drier is not needed on a hi temp system that normally would not see temps below 0 degrees C in the evaporator
they forget that it's a FILTER drier, and as you rightly point out, an acid neutraliser
when i have a choice, i fit a liquid and suction drier, but that's just me
Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
re R410, the pressures are a LOT higher than anything seen with R22. Refrigerant piping in 5/8" and above has to be heavier wall and rated as suitable to allow for the higher pressures. (here at any rate)
We've been using R410 here for a couple of years now, and it still surprises me that driers aren't required by the manufacturers as POE oils have to be used.
POE's have been in use in refrigeration since the early nineties and all the manufacturers required the moisture drop and acid capacities of driers doubled to prevent acidification of the POE lube. You hardly ever see a drier used on air conditioning, and it puzzles me.
Good practice during install also mandates dry nitrogen be purged through the lines to prevent copper oxides and scale forming during brazing.
they forget that it's a FILTER drier, and as you rightly point out, an acid neutraliser
when i have a choice, i fit a liquid and suction drier, but that's just me
Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
re R410, the pressures are a LOT higher than anything seen with R22. Refrigerant piping in 5/8" and above has to be heavier wall and rated as suitable to allow for the higher pressures. (here at any rate)
We've been using R410 here for a couple of years now, and it still surprises me that driers aren't required by the manufacturers as POE oils have to be used.
POE's have been in use in refrigeration since the early nineties and all the manufacturers required the moisture drop and acid capacities of driers doubled to prevent acidification of the POE lube. You hardly ever see a drier used on air conditioning, and it puzzles me.
Good practice during install also mandates dry nitrogen be purged through the lines to prevent copper oxides and scale forming during brazing.
Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
and the joints must be welded vs. soft solder.
Soft solder is used currently ?? Really ??
The only time I've seen soft solder used was on some old SO2 (converted to R12) refrigeration units from the fifties/sixties where the liquid receiver try-cocks and condenser end bends were soft soldered.
Yes, 95% of all r22 split systems around here are soft solder. We only use staybrite 8 w/ a good quality flux. As long as you take your time cleaning the fittings, you won't have a problem.
We actually have 1 r410a split system out there right now that was soft soldered in and we've had no issues to date. It only has 4 or 5 joints that needed connected. We were sure to limit them as best we could. We are using this unit as a test to see just how good our soft solder will hold up. The unit has hi and lo pressure switches, so we're not worried about compressor failure due to freon loss. Plus the house is a block away from us if anything happens.
Time will tell i'm sure, but so far so good.
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
and the joints must be welded vs. soft solder.
Soft solder is used currently ?? Really ??
The only time I've seen soft solder used was on some old SO2 (converted to R12) refrigeration units from the fifties/sixties where the liquid receiver try-cocks and condenser end bends were soft soldered.
Yes, 95% of all r22 split systems around here are soft solder. We only use staybrite 8 w/ a good quality flux. As long as you take your time cleaning the fittings, you won't have a problem.
We actually have 1 r410a split system out there right now that was soft soldered in and we've had no issues to date. It only has 4 or 5 joints that needed connected. We were sure to limit them as best we could. We are using this unit as a test to see just how good our soft solder will hold up. The unit has hi and lo pressure switches, so we're not worried about compressor failure due to freon loss. Plus the house is a block away from us if anything happens.
Time will tell i'm sure, but so far so good.
Originally Posted By: tdi-rick
re R410, the pressures are a LOT higher than anything seen with R22. Refrigerant piping in 5/8" and above has to be heavier wall and rated as suitable to allow for the higher pressures. (here at any rate)
We've been using R410 here for a couple of years now, and it still surprises me that driers aren't required by the manufacturers as POE oils have to be used.
POE's have been in use in refrigeration since the early nineties and all the manufacturers required the moisture drop and acid capacities of driers doubled to prevent acidification of the POE lube. You hardly ever see a drier used on air conditioning, and it puzzles me.
Good practice during install also mandates dry nitrogen be purged through the lines to prevent copper oxides and scale forming during brazing.
All our units come factory equipped with a liquid line drier already installed.
Yes, dry nitrogen is a must when brazing. We also test our lines with 250 psi for leaks on our r22 systems, and 350psi for 410a.
This helps limit any callbacks.
Dealing with 410a, how do you keep from burning yourself when unhooking the guages?
I don't know of any quick connects you can use with the higher pressures.
re R410, the pressures are a LOT higher than anything seen with R22. Refrigerant piping in 5/8" and above has to be heavier wall and rated as suitable to allow for the higher pressures. (here at any rate)
We've been using R410 here for a couple of years now, and it still surprises me that driers aren't required by the manufacturers as POE oils have to be used.
POE's have been in use in refrigeration since the early nineties and all the manufacturers required the moisture drop and acid capacities of driers doubled to prevent acidification of the POE lube. You hardly ever see a drier used on air conditioning, and it puzzles me.
Good practice during install also mandates dry nitrogen be purged through the lines to prevent copper oxides and scale forming during brazing.
All our units come factory equipped with a liquid line drier already installed.
Yes, dry nitrogen is a must when brazing. We also test our lines with 250 psi for leaks on our r22 systems, and 350psi for 410a.
This helps limit any callbacks.
Dealing with 410a, how do you keep from burning yourself when unhooking the guages?
I don't know of any quick connects you can use with the higher pressures.
Originally Posted By: 3Toyotas
Just curious, how big is your home and what are your extreme hi and low outdoor temps? Is it slab on grade or all above ground?
2x4 eterior or 2x6?
Just interested in the difference between NC and Utah sizing.
The house is 2500 sqft with a crawl space no slab although allot of the homes in this area are slab. All of the exterior walls are 2x4 and it was the coldest its been in the last 4 years about 1 week ago. It was in the teens
-8C or -9C for the rest of the world. Highs in the 90's are not uncommon in July and August, anything close to 100F is very rare. But loads of hummidty will make even a low 90's day feel just miserable to work in. I've lost 7lbs in about 3-4 hours just cutting the grass etc.
Just curious, how big is your home and what are your extreme hi and low outdoor temps? Is it slab on grade or all above ground?
2x4 eterior or 2x6?
Just interested in the difference between NC and Utah sizing.
The house is 2500 sqft with a crawl space no slab although allot of the homes in this area are slab. All of the exterior walls are 2x4 and it was the coldest its been in the last 4 years about 1 week ago. It was in the teens
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As mentioned above this thread is loaded with good info.
Yeah, I wish they would come up with a better replacement for '22 than '410A simply due to the high pressures involved, if I WANTED high head pressures I would choose '717 (ammonia) because of its efficiency. And then there's '764...
OTOH, my brother has been an HVAC mechanic since 1972 and he said his dealings in the field and number of callbacks with '410A and its higher head pressures have not been quite as bad as he predicted. Simply put, it sounds to me that it takes significantly more attention to details doing a '410A system correctly and a reputable installer of such equipment is especially important (not saying it ever isn't important though). He also said Trane is one of the better brands out there and has in fact recommended it to me in the past.
Yeah, I wish they would come up with a better replacement for '22 than '410A simply due to the high pressures involved, if I WANTED high head pressures I would choose '717 (ammonia) because of its efficiency. And then there's '764...
OTOH, my brother has been an HVAC mechanic since 1972 and he said his dealings in the field and number of callbacks with '410A and its higher head pressures have not been quite as bad as he predicted. Simply put, it sounds to me that it takes significantly more attention to details doing a '410A system correctly and a reputable installer of such equipment is especially important (not saying it ever isn't important though). He also said Trane is one of the better brands out there and has in fact recommended it to me in the past.
3 toys, what is soft solder. i've never heard of it being used in ref/ac
my understanding is that soft solder is a lead alloy which can be melted with an iron or flame, hard solder is a silver alloy rod ("silver solder")using either a fuel flame or oxy/acetylene and welding is, well, welding
my understanding is that soft solder is a lead alloy which can be melted with an iron or flame, hard solder is a silver alloy rod ("silver solder")using either a fuel flame or oxy/acetylene and welding is, well, welding
Make sure the company uses a micron gauge when they pull a vacuum, otherwise they will have no idea if moisture is still present in the lineset. As mentioned above, nitrogen is a must when brazing. Go for the R410a system, stay away from the R22 system, no need to buy obsolete equipment.
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